The KHL problem

[jammer2]

@Haliax The KHL could very well eventually pose the same threat that the old WHA once did to the NHL. Nobody took the fledgling league (WHA) to seriously until Bobby Hull signed there, which gave them immediate legitimacy. It was much later, but Gordie and his sons Mark and Marty did a lot for the image of the WHA also. Same as back in the seventies, all it would take is one star non European player to sign a big contract there and the proverbial floodgates could concievably open....I think the real threat would be 5-10 years down the road, but the groundwork is being laid right now for them to be legitimate rivals in the coming years/decades.

Edited July 16, 2013 by jammer2

[Polaris922]

Jagr is a bad example as he only made $5 million a year there and said he went to get away from the "pressures if an NHL season". It wasn't the "draw" of the KHL.

[AJgoal]

What happens if, say, a Nathan MacKinnon just skips the draft completely and signs in the KHL for 2-3x what he would make on an ELC in the NHL? You may see that before you see a Crosby or Weber defect.

[radoran]

Jagr is a bad example as he only made $5 million a year there and said he went to get away from the "pressures if an NHL season". It wasn't the "draw" of the KHL.

He's actually a pretty good example. The Rangers weren't going to re-sign him, he was a true free agent. He weighed his options and went to Omsk.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=242465

"I wanted to go home in three years so I was looking for a three-year contract if I wanted to stay here," said Jagr. "But it looks like with the new [Collective Barganing Agreement], it's tough for older guys to sign long-term contracts because teams are worried you're going to get injured or retire and they're stuck with the salary on the salary cap."

No doubt there is some window dressing there (he's now embarking on the same one year contract odyssey he claimed to want to avoid), but Kovalchuk also mentioned the ongoing labor problems, the 20% escrow clause, the tax burden in the States... And I think the outright gall of the owners to START negotiations with an immediate "non-negotiable" 20% rollback on salaries is not going to be forgotten any time soon.

The other things aren't going away, either. $5M in Omsk is the equivalent to what in the NHL? Could he have gotten $5M in the NHL? Put 20% in escrow, hit taxes on all of it and then put that next to the $5M from Omsk.

I'm betting the pile on the Russian side is higher - significantly so (which is in part why there is so much hardship and poverty and income disparity that makes the US look egalitarian throughout the country - they don't have the same social safety net as in the States).

Some people have mentioned the "uncertainty" about getting paid in the KHL - Emery apparently said he had to go to practice (talkin' 'bout PRACTICE!) to get paid.

The horror.

Kovalchuk just left a team that is teetering on insolvency, has missed apparently three payments that had to be made by the league (which has had three work stoppages in 20 years), was threatening to cut his salary 20% and holds 20% of it until it decides he can have it.

He'll go to Russia and get a $20 million check, almost effectively payable tomorrow. All of it.

The horror.

[Polaris922]

He's actually a pretty good example. The Rangers weren't going to re-sign him, he was a true free agent. He weighed his options and went to Omsk.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=242465

No doubt there is some window dressing there (he's now embarking on the same one year contract odyssey he claimed to want to avoid), but Kovalchuk also mentioned the ongoing labor problems, the 20% escrow clause, the tax burden in the States... And I think the outright gall of the owners to START negotiations with an immediate "non-negotiable" 20% rollback on salaries is not going to be forgotten any time soon.

The other things aren't going away, either. $5M in Omsk is the equivalent to what in the NHL? Could he have gotten $5M in the NHL? Put 20% in escrow, hit taxes on all of it and then put that next to the $5M from Omsk.

I'm betting the pile on the Russian side is higher - significantly so (which is in part why there is so much hardship and poverty and income disparity that makes the US look egalitarian throughout the country - they don't have the same social safety net as in the States).

Some people have mentioned the "uncertainty" about getting paid in the KHL - Emery apparently said he had to go to practice (talkin' 'bout PRACTICE!) to get paid.

The horror.

Kovalchuk just left a team that is teetering on insolvency, has missed apparently three payments that had to be made by the league (which has had three work stoppages in 20 years), was threatening to cut his salary 20% and holds 20% of it until it decides he can have it.

He'll go to Russia and get a $20 million check, almost effectively payable tomorrow. All of it.

The horror.

I agree Kovalchuk is going to make more money... but Jagr didn't fit that bill. He couldn't get the contract length or money he wanted back then, and was saying he wanted a break from the long schedule to hide his greed. After a few years over there, he realized it wasn't the competition he craved and returned to the NHL taking one year deals, despite the wound to his pride. THAT is why I am saying Jagr is a bad example for this post. He really didn't CHOOSE to go to the KHL as much as he was left no choice when his contract demands weren't being met.

Kovalchuk is the good example for this problem, not Jagr was all I was saying.

[radoran]

I agree Kovalchuk is going to make more money... but Jagr didn't fit that bill. He couldn't get the contract length or money he wanted back then, and was saying he wanted a break from the long schedule to hide his greed. After a few years over there, he realized it wasn't the competition he craved and returned to the NHL taking one year deals, despite the wound to his pride. THAT is why I am saying Jagr is a bad example for this post. He really didn't CHOOSE to go to the KHL as much as he was left no choice when his contract demands weren't being met.

Kovalchuk is the good example for this problem, not Jagr was all I was saying.

You do have something of a jaundiced view of Jagr.

I posted the TSN article in which he clearly states that he couldn't get the length of contract he wanted AND I note that he is doing now EXACTLY what he said he wanted to avoid - a series of one year deals.

NEVERTHELESS, his comments about the CBA and the uncertainty - especially for Europeans - are quite relevant even if one sees them as just a smokescreen.

[Polaris922]

You do have something of a jaundiced view of Jagr.

I posted the TSN article in which he clearly states that he couldn't get the length of contract he wanted AND I note that he is doing now EXACTLY what he said he wanted to avoid - a series of one year deals.

NEVERTHELESS, his comments about the CBA and the uncertainty - especially for Europeans - are quite relevant even if one sees them as just a smokescreen.

I'm not a Jagr hater. I really appreciate what he did here, and I truly believe he was one of the greatest players to play for my team. I used to speak to him fairly often, as we pulled him over all the time. Maybe that exposure to him influences my opinion, but that maturity you saw in him in Philly wasn't there before his time in the KHL.

We'll just disagree on this one.

[jammer2]

@Polaris922 " I used to speak to him fairly often, as we pulled him over all the time."

Was he speeding, or just a photo op?? LOL!

[radoran]

We'll just disagree on this one.

Do we disagree on the outcome or disagree on whether or not Jagr was telling the truth or not?

Because from where I sit, we don't disagree all that much.

Jagr's concerns are valid whether or not they were the "real" reason he left or not. If you want to read tea leaves and look past what Jagr "actually said" and speculate on what he "really meant" that's fine. I've tacitly acknowledged the validity of your speculations throughout.

Still, that doesn't at all invalidate his original comments about the CBA being a potential impediment to players choosing the NHL over the KHL.

This is reflected when Kovalchuck says many of the same things as he chooses the KHL over the NHL.

[Polaris922]

@jammer2

He had a red Dodge Viper and he liked to see what it could do... a LOT.

@radoran

I don't disagree that the KHL could become a threat to the NHL if for no other reason than the amount of money the billionaire owners are willing to spend to bring in the big name talents.

I think Jagr made demands for what he wanted to stay here, and when he didn't get them, his butt hurt required him to live up to his words and go to the KHL, as he'd reportedly threatened to do. After a few years there, he realized the NHL was still the place to be, or he wouldn't have come back. I think he was immature and childish, and he painted himself into a corner with his ego. Having said that, I think it was a learning experience and he seems to have come back a much humbler, and much more mature hockey player.

I for one, would like to see him retire from Pittsburgh... but I don't believe that will ever happen.

[jammer2]

@Polaris922 "After a few years there, he realized the NHL was still the place to be, or he wouldn't have come back. I think he was immature and childish, and he painted himself into a corner with his ego. Having said that, I think it was a learning experience and he seems to have come back a much humbler, and much more mature hockey player. "

The fact Jagr left for the KHL, then came back to the NHL speaks volumes for which league gets the compitive juices flowing, how steep the compitition is for the holy grail, the Stanley Cup. I don't think the KHL has anything close to that....quick, what throphy gets awarded to the KHL Champ?

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922 "After a few years there, he realized the NHL was still the place to be, or he wouldn't have come back. I think he was immature and childish, and he painted himself into a corner with his ego. Having said that, I think it was a learning experience and he seems to have come back a much humbler, and much more mature hockey player. "

The fact Jagr left for the KHL, then came back to the NHL speaks volumes for which league gets the compitive juices flowing, how steep the compitition is for the holy grail, the Stanley Cup. I don't think the KHL has anything close to that....quick, what throphy gets awarded to the KHL Champ?

I think they get t-shirts that say "2013 KHL Champions" and that's about it....

[radoran]

@Polaris922 "After a few years there, he realized the NHL was still the place to be, or he wouldn't have come back. I think he was immature and childish, and he painted himself into a corner with his ego. Having said that, I think it was a learning experience and he seems to have come back a much humbler, and much more mature hockey player. "

The fact Jagr left for the KHL, then came back to the NHL speaks volumes for which league gets the compitive juices flowing, how steep the compitition is for the holy grail, the Stanley Cup. I don't think the KHL has anything close to that....quick, what throphy gets awarded to the KHL Champ?

The Gagarin Cup (yes, I knew that without Googling )

I don't think anyone would compare the level of competition in the KHL rightnow, but the question is really WILL it compare in the relatively near future.