Lavi's Leash

[brelic]

I'm thinking Laviolette is a goner if our record after 10 games is any worse than 4-6... so, 3-7, IMO seals his fate.

Snider will not let another season go to waste, and will nip it in the bud as soon as he sees trouble brewing.

Thoughts?

[Bertmega]

Problem is our GM has not really handed Lavi the tools he needs to be completely successful. The style of game he plays requires defenders that can effectively move the puck. Also, it doesn't help that his forward crop is log jammed with centers. 

 

Now onto the other end of the coin. Lavy is a stubborn coach. He played Bryzgalov until he basically fell apart. Not saying that if Leighton would have been placed in for a few games it would be any better. He also refused to address issues with key players that were clearly under performing. 

 

My take he should get another full season. The reality of it in Flyer-land, he has a 10 game try out. 

 

Sad but true. I wish the GM was on the same hot seat. 

[murraycraven]

I get the feeling the Flyers really like Lavy and he is not on the hot seat.   With that being said I can see them making a Coaching move if the first 10 games are 3-7 or worse.   Here is the questions that needs to be asked?  If Lavy gets fired who is available as a Coach?   I would bet a large some of monopoly money that Chief would be the interim Coach and maybe the new Coach (permanent).  I do think Lavy is a very good coach but does suffer from being stubborn - as Bert mentioned.

 

I hope it does not come to this but we are talking about the Flyers and Coaches - which we all know has a brief shelf-life in Philly.  We will know in a few weeks.

[brelic]

Problem is our GM has not really handed Lavi the tools he needs to be completely successful. The style of game he plays requires defenders that can effectively move the puck. Also, it doesn't help that his forward crop is log jammed with centers.

He's got Timo, Streit, and Gus to move the puck this year, and Coburn, Grossman, and Schenn to take the body, block shots, and clear the crease. Seems like he's got the right mixture this year, so there's no excuse.

 

Now onto the other end of the coin. Lavy is a stubborn coach. He played Bryzgalov until he basically fell apart. Not saying that if Leighton would have been placed in for a few games it would be any better. He also refused to address issues with key players that were clearly under performing.

Yes, he's very stubborn. Before Bryz, he was responsible for the three-ring goalie circus in the playoffs that (in)directly sealed Bob's fate.

He's got his strengths and weaknesses, and his eventual firing will probably have more to do with the Flyers typical impatience than with his performance.

I like the guy, but I think this season will be another high offense, poor defense kinda season. And this might sound funny, but we're kinda like a Penguins-lite, except our offense is not quite as dynamic and powerful to overcome the defensive deficiencies.

Lots of coaches get more with less... let's see if Lavi can get more with more.

[Leach27]

Problem is our GM has not really handed Lavi the tools he needs to be completely successful. The style of game he plays requires defenders that can effectively move the puck. Also, it doesn't help that his forward crop is log jammed with centers. 

 

Now onto the other end of the coin. Lavy is a stubborn coach. He played Bryzgalov until he basically fell apart. Not saying that if Leighton would have been placed in for a few games it would be any better. He also refused to address issues with key players that were clearly under performing. 

 

My take he should get another full season. The reality of it in Flyer-land, he has a 10 game try out. 

 

Sad but true. I wish the GM was on the same hot seat. 

 

Agreed. After all the roster moves, they are not going to wait long for lavy. 10 - 20 games, they probably already have a plan in place.

[ruxpin]

@brelic

I don't share the same assessment of our defense, especially regarding puck movement. I think Streit and Timonen are old and Gus will be okay but will show growing pains. Additionally, I think the d corps in general is brittle and will again be decimated by injury.

I'm hopeful about the goalies but objectively, they are going in with two backups. I suspect we're going to need to score a LOT to win , which brings up the next issue:

I don't see where consistent scoring is going to come from. I think many actually think too highly of our forwards. I like many of the players individually, but as a group I really don't think it works. I think those that didnt like the VL signing will have been proven right by New Year.

I just think we're in for a long year. Lavvy will likely be sacrificed at the altar of Saint Paul when, truly, Saint Paul has constructed a fatally flawed team.

I really don't expect them to make the playoffs unless a LOT goes right and they sneak in at 6-8 seed. But this is Philly. How often do THAT many things go right?

Lavvy is gone by Thanksgiving.

[ruxpin]

@brelic

I don't share the same assessment of our defense, especially regarding puck movement. I think Streit and Timonen are old and Gus will be okay but will show growing pains. Additionally, I think the d corps in general is brittle and will again be decimated by injury.

I'm hopeful about the goalies but objectively, they are going in with two backups. I suspect we're going to need to score a LOT to win , which brings up the next issue:

I don't see where consistent scoring is going to come from. I think many actually think too highly of our forwards. I like many of the players individually, but as a group I really don't think it works. I think those that didnt like the VL signing will have been proven right by New Year.

I just think we're in for a long year. Lavvy will likely be sacrificed at the altar of Saint Paul when, truly, Saint Paul has constructed a fatally flawed team.

I really don't expect them to make the playoffs unless a LOT goes right and they sneak in at 6-8 seed. But this is Philly. How often do THAT many things go right?

Lavvy is gone by Thanksgiving.

[Bertmega]

@brelic

 

I do agree that Holmgren made a decent effort to sure up the D, but I am still a little concerned with the aging vets that Lavi has to utilize in an uptempo scheme. I hope and think that the d has vastly improved from last year (if healthy). The forward crop is dynamic and should pose a threat nightly. It will be very interesting to see how the two netminders are used. Is one the clear starter over the other, or will Lavi play one until he is fried then move to the next?

[murraycraven]

he was responsible for the three-ring goalie circus in the playoffs that (in)directly sealed Bob's fate.

 

Can't argue that one Brel!   I think this is absolutely true and I am a Lavy supporter (on most nights).   The way he ran that goalie circus was just insane and when you look at it was a monumental failure for that season and for the Org in the then near future (shipping Bob off & signing Bryz).  

[TarHeelFlyer]

There is more than enough talent to win on this team, but everyone MUST be better than they were last year except maybe Simmonds and Voracek.  

 

The goaltenders need to be better.  

 

The D needs to stay healthy and make quick outlet passes to the forwards.

 

The Forwards must remember that they need to help in the defensive end.

 

Couturier, Schenn and Read need to take steps forward.

 

Vinnie needs to up his game some in the new year with a new team. 

 

Giroux needs to have a better year.

 

Coburn needs to have a MUCH better year.

 

Mason and Emery need to find a status that allows both of them to succeed.

 

 

NOW....all that being said, if Lavy goes 2-8 or worse over the first 10 games, I expect a change.  

[brelic]

I don't share the same assessment of our defense, especially regarding puck movement. I think Streit and Timonen are old and Gus will be okay but will show growing pains. Additionally, I think the d corps in general is brittle and will again be decimated by injury.

I'm not saying we've got Suter back there, but we have at least 3 guys who would be classified as puck-moving defensemen. So, it's an improvement over last year where there was no Streit, and Gus only played half the games. Now, Streit more than cancels out his contributions by being bad defensively - over the last 2 seasons, he has 74 points but is -41. Isles or not, that's horrid. And we have 4 guarandamnteed years of that.

Gus is young and will make mistakes, no doubt.

And Timo is Timo... reliable, dependable, but aging.

Still, no more pairings of two slow, lumbering defensemen with no puck moving skills. Unless we keep Gill, and sit Gus. Which could very well happen.

I'm hopeful about the goalies but objectively, they are going in with two backups. I suspect we're going to need to score a LOT to win

Agreed. Which is why I made the Pens comparison. But we better get a LOT better 5 on 5 than we were last year.

I think those that didnt like the VL signing will have been proven right by New Year.

I was one of those who didn't like it from the get-go. I came around and don't really mind it now, but I still think it's a disruptive move... it pushes Schenn to the side, and pushes both Couturier and Laughton lower on the depth chart FOR FIVE YEARS. A few seasons, maybe. But we just had to have the shiny new old player, I guess.

Lavvy is gone by Thanksgiving.

Interesting... I can't say the same, because in Canada, that would mean he's gone by October 14! LOL!

[murraycraven]

@brelic

I don't share the same assessment of our defense, especially regarding puck movement. I think Streit and Timonen are old and Gus will be okay but will show growing pains. Additionally, I think the d corps in general is brittle and will again be decimated by injury.

I'm hopeful about the goalies but objectively, they are going in with two backups. I suspect we're going to need to score a LOT to win , which brings up the next issue:

I don't see where consistent scoring is going to come from. I think many actually think too highly of our forwards. I like many of the players individually, but as a group I really don't think it works. I think those that didnt like the VL signing will have been proven right by New Year.

I just think we're in for a long year. Lavvy will likely be sacrificed at the altar of Saint Paul when, truly, Saint Paul has constructed a fatally flawed team.

I really don't expect them to make the playoffs unless a LOT goes right and they sneak in at 6-8 seed. But this is Philly. How often do THAT many things go right?

Lavvy is gone by Thanksgiving.

 

 

Rux, I agree that A LOT needs to go right for them to make the playoffs.  I look at it similarly to the Phillies this year and their hopes that all the vets came back and regained health and production.  I have no faith that our defense remains healthy and unless Cooter and Scheen start producing this will be a tough year to make the playoffs. 

 

I see this team, at best, making a 6-8 seed if everything pans out but the "hopeful" list is long:

 

1. Is Brayden Schenn finally going to produce?
2. Can our agingt defense stay healthy? (NO)
3. Can Hartnell regain his form from 2 yrs ago?
4. Will the Goalies perform?
5. Can G become the dominant force again and get back to the elite status?
6. Is Lavy going to finally tweak the defense in an effort to play team defense?

I just think there are too many things that need to go right anf far too many things that can go bad...   I am hoping they do but I still look at this defense and shake my head.  Gus has potential but I do not see him anything more than a 5-6 defenseman that will make mistakes as he is young.   Streit will help the PP and breakout... Kimmo will provide the usual play but how long can he keep it up?  Mezz and Grossman are essentially brittle and Coburn... well, Coburn is Coburn.   Hopefully L Schenn takes another step in his development.   Again, too many things can go wrong with this Team and way too many things have to go right for them to get back to the playoffs.

 

Dont mean to be a downer but this is just the way I see this season.  I hope I am wrong!

[FD19372]

There are two certainties to start every Flyers season. The goaltending is sub-par and the coach should be fired.  If the team goes 2-8 in its first ten games, then I would seriously start considering it. I think Lavy has earned a little time, though. Besides last year, the team has a good record under him.  Personally, I would axe Holmgren before Laviolette. We know it will be tough for Snider to do that, because Homer is his 'boy'. Homer was the one who added another aging, although talented, veteran to the blueline instead of a young guy with speed who can rush the puck and react quickly. He was the one who brought in Mason and Emery, who will get tested often. I like the move to get Lecavalier, though.  

Edited September 25, 2013 by FD19372

[JackStraw]

I think he'll get more than 10 games. I would guess the Olympic break would be a time they would consider pulling the trigger if the team is really struggling.

[mojo1917]

wow, lot's of optimism up in this bznitch .  

I'm concerned that the lowly Devils out played our guys, there is literally 1 line of forwards on that team and 2 defensemen , how was this possible ?  

should i be concerned ? i haven't watched one lick of hockey this year ( stupid code , no hockey 'll the O's are out of it; for the last 15 years there hasn't been a conflict ) 

bad breaks ? no energy ? what gives ?

i would think guys would be trying to round themselves into shape for going full speed.

the shout box from last night left me thinking this could be a long season.

[murraycraven]

wow, lot's of optimism up in this bznitch .  

I'm concerned that the lowly Devils out played our guys, there is literally 1 line of forwards on that team and 2 defensemen , how was this possible ?  

should i be concerned ? i haven't watched one lick of hockey this year ( stupid code , no hockey 'll the O's are out of it; for the last 15 years there hasn't been a conflict ) 

bad breaks ? no energy ? what gives ?

i would think guys would be trying to round themselves into shape for going full speed.

the shout box from last night left me thinking this could be a long season.

 

 

mojo... I never put much stock in the preseason.   Jake left the game, Simmonds, Rinaldo, etc... did not play.   Emery looked good I thought and kept us in it during the 1st period.  Gus I thought looked like a rookie and gaffed on the first goal.  Mezz was not all that good either.  Giroux looked like it was his 1st game back but was very good on faceoffs and rung one off the post.  

 

It was a boring game to be honest...

[radoran]

It was a boring game to be honest...

 

So, it was a Devils game, then.

[murraycraven]

@rad... to be expected

[doom88]

Simple, last year was the goalie. Lavy is toast if the Flyers go into any extended struggle this season. That month of road games for Disney on ice should do the trick.

[Mad Dog]

Simple, last year was the goalie.

Which still could be an issue. Aside from the contract nightmare and the fact that Bryz was a nutcase, I don't know if Emery/Mason is a significant upgrade in net. Nevertheless, I do believe if the Flyers will have a slow start, Lavvy is gone. 

Edited September 25, 2013 by Mad Dog

[doom88]

More of a alternating pattern, goalie one season, coach the next.

[murraycraven]

The goalie is an issue every year... Let's hope one of Emery or mason take the reigns and play lights out this year. I would like... No love! One year for us not to question the goalie position... Wait, that will never happen!

[jammer2]

  Homer will be very patient with Lavi, cause once he fires the coach, the next coach will be his last shot at not getting fired himself. If Lavi fails, then Homer is next on the chopping block, so he has some real vested interest in not starting the wheels rolling to putting himself in the employment noose. If Lavi flops, then Lavi's successor flops, then nobody else is to blame other than Homer, cause he hand picked both guys. It's in Homers best interests to give Lavi a long leash.

[Mad Dog]

@jammer2

 

Not to mention that Homer is the guy who put this team together, not Lavy.  And the team still has holes.

[radoran]

  Homer will be very patient with Lavi, cause once he fires the coach, the next coach will be his last shot at not getting fired himself. If Lavi fails, then Homer is next on the chopping block, so he has some real vested interest in not starting the wheels rolling to putting himself in the employment noose. If Lavi flops, then Lavi's successor flops, then nobody else is to blame other than Homer, cause he hand picked both guys. It's in Homers best interests to give Lavi a long leash.

 

Lavvy already is the longest-tenured coach since Shero. How patient can Homer still be and how long is the leash?

 

@jammer2

 

Not to mention that Homer is the guy who put this team together, not Lavy.  And the team still has holes.

 

Which, for a team spending to the cap every year, is really astounding when you think about it.