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Is Holmgren to blame for the Flyers' poor play?


darthbal

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http://spectorshockey.net/blog/holmgren-to-blame-for-flyers-current-mess/

 

It is an interesting article; and he does bring up some good points, some that were already brought up. One move that he does not mention, is the non resigning of Jagr. That in itself messed with Giroux's development. It was clear last season and again this season that Giroux still needs him. Heck, half of the young guys still need him.

 

But really, this debacle that is called the Flyers, does not solely rest Homer's shoulders. There is to be put on the coach (now fired) and the players. Ultimately, the players are the ones playing on the ice and either have to score goals or stop the puck or block shots and prevent the other team from scoring; and that is one thing the players have not bee able to do effectively this season. The coach has to be able to motivate, light fires under the asses, come up with plays and teach the players; something that Lavvy could no longer do which was apparent last season. The GM needs to put a team together that hopefully will bond together and play well together. When that is not the case, he needs to make trades or signing that will fix it or complement it.

 

It is obvious that sine the team's cup run in 2010, that certain moves and/or signing have disrupted the chemistry of the team. Now things have to be done in order to re-establish the chemistry and the style of play that the Flyers are know for. The teams need more grit, and more veterans with leadership qualities. A new coach has been put in place, the next step would be for the GM to make some moves to try to fix the chemistry or to bring in a new GM, and let him fix the team. But one has to be careful, cause you can't trade away all your assets for a quick fix, as per the Richards and Carter trades in order to sign a top goalie...

 

In my opinion, the first thing to address would be the BLUE LINE group... They need to get some fresh blood on there, and move things around. It is obvious that some of the players don't fit anymore and need to be moved away. One suggested pairing I would like to try as third pairing would be to put Meszaros with Gill; Mez could step in on the play while Gill would stay back; they would not play lots of minutes unless necessary and to me it looks like a balance pair.

 

Just my 2cents....

 

 

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http://spectorshockey.net/blog/holmgren-to-blame-for-flyers-current-mess/

 

It is an interesting article; and he does bring up some good points, some that were already brought up. One move that he does not mention, is the non resigning of Jagr. That in itself messed with Giroux's development. It was clear last season and again this season that Giroux still needs him. Heck, half of the young guys still need him.

 

But really, this debacle that is called the Flyers, does not solely rest Homer's shoulders. There is to be put on the coach (now fired) and the players. Ultimately, the players are the ones playing on the ice and either have to score goals or stop the puck or block shots and prevent the other team from scoring; and that is one thing the players have not bee able to do effectively this season. The coach has to be able to motivate, light fires under the asses, come up with plays and teach the players; something that Lavvy could no longer do which was apparent last season. The GM needs to put a team together that hopefully will bond together and play well together. When that is not the case, he needs to make trades or signing that will fix it or complement it.

 

It is obvious that sine the team's cup run in 2010, that certain moves and/or signing have disrupted the chemistry of the team. Now things have to be done in order to re-establish the chemistry and the style of play that the Flyers are know for. The teams need more grit, and more veterans with leadership qualities. A new coach has been put in place, the next step would be for the GM to make some moves to try to fix the chemistry or to bring in a new GM, and let him fix the team. But one has to be careful, cause you can't trade away all your assets for a quick fix, as per the Richards and Carter trades in order to sign a top goalie...

 

In my opinion, the first thing to address would be the BLUE LINE group... They need to get some fresh blood on there, and move things around. It is obvious that some of the players don't fit anymore and need to be moved away. One suggested pairing I would like to try as third pairing would be to put Meszaros with Gill; Mez could step in on the play while Gill would stay back; they would not play lots of minutes unless necessary and to me it looks like a balance pair.

 

Just my 2cents....

 

 

While I agree w/ some of what you say I very much agree that the blue line needs an upgrade.   However, Mezz and Gill would be a monumental failure and honestly the only thing I want them sharing is a seat in the owner's box.   Moving Gill and Mezz into the lineup is going to take time away from Streit, Gus and Schenn.  Two of those 3 are still very young and Streit is the only true puck moving defenseman (outside of Gus).  

 

Right now the defense needs to create a good first pass out of the zone for a decent transition.   This is something that needs to be improved.  Likewise, the defense (team d) needs to play better in their own zone.  This group seems to turnover pucks at an alarming rate and they never recover...

 

Also, the offense needs to start capitalizing on their chances.   They need to start getting dirty goals and stop the perimeter play.

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While I agree w/ some of what you say I very much agree that the blue line needs an upgrade.   However, Mezz and Gill would be a monumental failure and honestly the only thing I want them sharing is a seat in the owner's box.   Moving Gill and Mezz into the lineup is going to take time away from Streit, Gus and Schenn.  Two of those 3 are still very young and Streit is the only true puck moving defenseman (outside of Gus).  

 

Right now the defense needs to create a good first pass out of the zone for a decent transition.   This is something that needs to be improved.  Likewise, the defense (team d) needs to play better in their own zone.  This group seems to turnover pucks at an alarming rate and they never recover...

 

Also, the offense needs to start capitalizing on their chances.   They need to start getting dirty goals and stop the perimeter play.

^^^This

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http://spectorshockey.net/blog/holmgren-to-blame-for-flyers-current-mess/

It is an interesting article; and he does bring up some good points, some that were already brought up. One move that he does not mention, is the non resigning of Jagr. That in itself messed with Giroux's development. It was clear last season and again this season that Giroux still needs him. Heck, half of the young guys still need him.

But really, this debacle that is called the Flyers, does not solely rest Homer's shoulders. There is to be put on the coach (now fired) and the players. Ultimately, the players are the ones playing on the ice and either have to score goals or stop the puck or block shots and prevent the other team from scoring; and that is one thing the players have not bee able to do effectively this season. The coach has to be able to motivate, light fires under the asses, come up with plays and teach the players; something that Lavvy could no longer do which was apparent last season. The GM needs to put a team together that hopefully will bond together and play well together. When that is not the case, he needs to make trades or signing that will fix it or complement it.

It is obvious that sine the team's cup run in 2010, that certain moves and/or signing have disrupted the chemistry of the team. Now things have to be done in order to re-establish the chemistry and the style of play that the Flyers are know for. The teams need more grit, and more veterans with leadership qualities. A new coach has been put in place, the next step would be for the GM to make some moves to try to fix the chemistry or to bring in a new GM, and let him fix the team. But one has to be careful, cause you can't trade away all your assets for a quick fix, as per the Richards and Carter trades in order to sign a top goalie...

In my opinion, the first thing to address would be the BLUE LINE group... They need to get some fresh blood on there, and move things around. It is obvious that some of the players don't fit anymore and need to be moved away. One suggested pairing I would like to try as third pairing would be to put Meszaros with Gill; Mez could step in on the play while Gill would stay back; they would not play lots of minutes unless necessary and to me it looks like a balance pair.

Just my 2cents....

Yes. This is 90% on Holmgren.

And any post that, with a straight face, suggests playing Mez (and with Gill, no less) instantly loses all credibility for me. Sorry.

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@darthbal  I've been saying for a long time, our overall mobility on our defense is really lacking. We have Luke Schenn, a borderline horrible skater, Grossmann, a less than stellar skater...and Coburn who is nice skater once he gets his stride going, but in the defensive zone, moving from point A to point B...he is real slow. You need mobility in todays NHL to win. You need your defensemen to have the speed and skill to skate the puck out of trouble if the passing lanes are cut off....we have 3 regulars who don't fit this bill. Mez is a possible 4th due to his recent poor skating (at least he was respectable at one point, sadly, no longer the case). Streit is not exactly a speed burner either, so that makes 5 questionable skaters.

 

  You can't win with so many brutal skaters on defense. I don't mind having a few crease clearing tough guys, but the balance here is way out of whack. The only decent skaters in the bunch are Kimo and Gus. Not a recipe for success. I'd take 6 Hjalmersson's any day over this horrid group. The sad part is some of the answers lie in the AHL, but the big contracts are blocking their way.

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They get new blood on defense every year. Plus the defense isn't looking terrible.

The offense is starting to forechecking so that's nice.

It's crisp smart passing and no ability to get open that this team is missing IMHO.

They low % shots because try cant find seams or separation before getting checked.

They're slow on offense and don't move their feet.

I have no issue blaming homer as well though as much for his attitude and the way he has treated people as anything else. Richards, carter, bob, gagne, jagr, Carle just for starters. Can't feel good to work for a guy like that.

http://spectorshockey.net/blog/holmgren-to-blame-for-flyers-current-mess/

It is an interesting article; and he does bring up some good points, some that were already brought up. One move that he does not mention, is the non resigning of Jagr. That in itself messed with Giroux's development. It was clear last season and again this season that Giroux still needs him. Heck, half of the young guys still need him.

But really, this debacle that is called the Flyers, does not solely rest Homer's shoulders. There is to be put on the coach (now fired) and the players. Ultimately, the players are the ones playing on the ice and either have to score goals or stop the puck or block shots and prevent the other team from scoring; and that is one thing the players have not bee able to do effectively this season. The coach has to be able to motivate, light fires under the asses, come up with plays and teach the players; something that Lavvy could no longer do which was apparent last season. The GM needs to put a team together that hopefully will bond together and play well together. When that is not the case, he needs to make trades or signing that will fix it or complement it.

It is obvious that sine the team's cup run in 2010, that certain moves and/or signing have disrupted the chemistry of the team. Now things have to be done in order to re-establish the chemistry and the style of play that the Flyers are know for. The teams need more grit, and more veterans with leadership qualities. A new coach has been put in place, the next step would be for the GM to make some moves to try to fix the chemistry or to bring in a new GM, and let him fix the team. But one has to be careful, cause you can't trade away all your assets for a quick fix, as per the Richards and Carter trades in order to sign a top goalie...

In my opinion, the first thing to address would be the BLUE LINE group... They need to get some fresh blood on there, and move things around. It is obvious that some of the players don't fit anymore and need to be moved away. One suggested pairing I would like to try as third pairing would be to put Meszaros with Gill; Mez could step in on the play while Gill would stay back; they would not play lots of minutes unless necessary and to me it looks like a balance pair.

Just my 2cents....

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They get new blood on defense every year. Plus the defense isn't looking terrible.

The offense is starting to forechecking so that's nice.

It's crisp smart passing and no ability to get open that this team is missing IMHO.

They low % shots because try cant find seams or separation before getting checked.

They're slow on offense and don't move their feet.

I have no issue blaming homer as well though as much for his attitude and the way he has treated people as anything else. Richards, carter, bob, gagne, jagr, Carle just for starters. Can't feel good to work for a guy like that.

 

 

 

See I told everybody you are an intelligent poster - lol.

 

seriously - good post. God only knows if Berube can skate them into better form but we did see steps in the right direction last night. It's only fair to note they were playing a god-awful Rangers team that's missing a bunch (incl Lundqvist) of its key players.

 

Let's see if they can keep it up - stringing shifts together maintaining possession i.e. an actual forecheck against a better Isles team tomorrow.

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The fact that I have a good understanding of the game and of what's going wrong only fuels my disgust at the way they were/might keep playing.

If I didn't understand the game I'd just think, oh they suck, okay maybe next year, but instead I have a pretty good grasp of how far off they have been and I just can't see any good reason for it.

Maybe they're getting better. Hopefully. That would be nice. I just think its sad that basic fundamentals I the game have to be relearned by this team at this point.

They're getting better, but they are nowhere close to bein an actual competitive team yet.

That makes me sad now. Ha ha. I've moved from anger to depression. What's next? Bargaining with god?

See I told everybody you are an intelligent poster - lol.

seriously - good post. God only knows if Berube can skate them into better form but we did see steps in the right direction last night. It's only fair to note they were playing a god-awful Rangers team that's missing a bunch (incl Lundqvist) of its key players.

Let's see if they can keep it up - stringing shifts together maintaining possession i.e. an actual forecheck against a better Isles team tomorrow.

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@darthbal

While I agree that the Flyers have chemistry issues up front (though after tonight it looks like they are making some progress in this area) and FOR SURE have some personnel issues on the blue line, I'm pretty sure the Flyers' problem goes beyond personnel. My view is they no longer have an identity. While teams like Detroit and New Jersey have an organization wide commitment to a style of play and a focus on drafting or obtaining personnel to fit that style, the Flyers reinvent themselves every year, adding a grab bag of skill sets to the mix and hoping for the best. Lots of the players they bring in are fine players but it is hard to get the mix right when you change the mission every year. It seems pretty clear to me that Homer and Lavy were NOT on the same page. For example, I don't know how Lavy would ever want the defense that Homer gave him in order to play an attacking, up tempo style. It's ludicrous. I suspect it happens because the organization has no patience. Something like: Ed gets rambunctious, again, so they throw out the plan, go with the quick fix and, even worse, sign the player he's fixated on that off season in order to placate him.

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I think Lavy didn't prepare his team in a conditioning sense. Look at the difference Berube has made regarding players moving their asses. Meaning, it might not have been the "system", or (exclusively) roster churn / chemistry.

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