Jake V: hockey IQ (or lack thereof)

[murraycraven]

It is time to sit this clown in the press box for a game or two. How many bad passes can a single player make in a game? Does he ever skate between the dots in the offensive zone bc I it sure looks like he plays the perimeter 90 percent of the time.

Was last year an anomaly?

This guy has the hockey IQ of a bantam player.

[doom88]

You could swap out the name for many Flyers.

[murraycraven]

You could swap out the name for many Flyers.

Very true Doom... Very true.

[OccamsRazor]

It is time to sit this clown in the press box for a game or two. How many bad passes can a single player make in a game? Does he ever skate between the dots in the offensive zone bc I it sure looks like he plays the perimeter 90 percent of the time.

Was last year an anomaly?

This guy has the hockey IQ of a bantam player.

 

 

You're seeing what i'm seeing...it's like he is trying to stay away from the dirty work and ain't even trying to hide it.

 

I said move him today in the shout box for whatever before his value slips...

[jackhole]

Yes, I've noticed this as well, just not in sync with his teammates.  Sit him/4th line and give Raffl a try, who shows some flashes of real creativity and is much more physical than I would've guessed.  Can't hurt, because Jake and Hartnell are just dead weight around G's neck right now.

[brelic]

Was last year an anomaly?

Actually, *this* year is an anomaly. He's on the worst pace of his career (0.46).

He's struggling, no doubt. I don't like that he's such a soft player because when he's not producing points, he's not contributing anything.

But he's not alone.

Giroux - worst pace since 2009, worst career pace for goals.

Hartnell - identical to last year's pace, which are the worst since his rookie year in 2000

Simmonds - worst pace in 3 seasons

Lecavalier - worst pace since 2000

Read - worst pace in his 3 seasons with the Flyers... declining each year

Streit - worst pace since his rookie year in 2005

Timonen - worst pace of his 15 year career

Among the forwards, Brayden Schenn is the lone bright star, who has been consistently decent this season. He's on pace to improve upon last year's totals, and he's more noticeable more often. Still has a way to go for his overall game, but I like what I see.

Couturier, well, it's hard to say if this mini-streak he's on is just like the mini-streak in his rookie year. They kind of skew his numbers. A handful of excellent offensive games followed by a ton of non-existent ones. We'll see if that line can keep it up.

All this to say that they are ALL having terrible individual seasons, and that's partly reflected in the team's record. The only reason it is not worse than it is has everything to do with Mason (and Emery gave them a chance to win last night).

I wouldn't make big moves based on this season's performance alone.

[Mario99]

I think last year was a year in which you can't look at the stats for some guys and say, well they are becoming great players

Voracek 47 points in 47 games I think. I would look to deal this guy, he has speed and skill but never shows up in 82 game season

Voracek for Bobby Ryan any chance? Add any player to make this deal

[ruxpin]

Voracek for Bobby Ryan any chance?

 

Why don't we just trade him for Stamkos and MSL while we're living in fantasy land?

[JackStraw]

Why don't we just trade him for Stamkos and MSL while we're living in fantasy land?

Silly bear, don't you know that all other teams are supposed to trade us their stars for our scraps. It's in the contract they sign when they get an NHL franchise. I swear.

[brelic]

I think last year was a year in which you can't look at the stats for some guys and say, well they are becoming great players

Voracek 47 points in 47 games I think. I would look to deal this guy, he has speed and skill but never shows up in 82 game season

Why can we just disregard a statistically significant sample of 47 games? He didn't just get 47 points by accident, in a handful of games. He never went more than 2 games without a point, had shots on goal in all but 4 of the 47 games, had 12 multi-point games. He was better than Giroux most of last season. They still give out Stanley Cups.

Compare that to this year where he's already had two 5-game pointless streaks and a 3-game. He's had 17 games out of 27 (63%) that he's been held pointless compared to 18 of 47 last year (38%). Can we just wipe out the first 27 games because, well, everyone else is bad too?

[FreakinFlyersFan]

Yes, I've noticed this as well, just not in sync with his teammates.  Sit him/4th line and give Raffl a try, who shows some flashes of real creativity and is much more physical than I would've guessed.  Can't hurt, because Jake and Hartnell are just dead weight around G's neck right now.

Definitely, who says that Jake and Harts deserve that 1st line spot...I haven't seen it this year. Read, Schenn and Couts are better deserved at least they try, the 3rd line has been the best line for the Flyers most of the season.

[radoran]

Just for the record, Jake had 46 in 48 last season.

 

It was also his first 20-goal season (in a shortened campaign).

 

That, to me, is pretty good evidence he makes a case to be on the first line.

[ruxpin]

That, to me, is pretty good evidence he makes a case to be on the first line.

 

I would rather him on the first line than either the third or the fourth.  Clearly the third right now is pretty set, but even if it wasn't, Voracek doesn't play the type of game that fits on either the third (he has no idea what he's doing defensively) or the fourth (energy?  Nah).  

 

He should be on the first line.  That's where his typical game should fit.  But I wouldn't be opposed to fourth line or the press box for just a game or two as a kick in the pants.

 

But if the Flyers could get someone remotely capable on the opposite wing, that might help Voracek quite a bit.  And maybe a center that wants to show up a little more often.   The first line right now is a joke across the board.

[radoran]

couldn't agree more, rux.

 

Jake isn't the straw that stirs the first line drink, he's the decorative twist on the lip of the glass.

 

Giroux DESPERATELY needs someone who can open up ice space for him. The idea that he creates his own space astounds me.

[fan4ever]

I like Jake and he has been pissing me off lately but I think he will return to form.....

 

I think the anchor on that line is.........Hartnell.  Let's do something with him!!!!

[brelic]

I would rather him on the first line than either the third or the fourth.  Clearly the third right now is pretty set, but even if it wasn't, Voracek doesn't play the type of game that fits on either the third (he has no idea what he's doing defensively) or the fourth (energy?  Nah).  

 

He should be on the first line.  That's where his typical game should fit.  But I wouldn't be opposed to fourth line or the press box for just a game or two as a kick in the pants.

 

But if the Flyers could get someone remotely capable on the opposite wing, that might help Voracek quite a bit.  And maybe a center that wants to show up a little more often.   The first line right now is a joke across the board.

It just seems like Jake and Claude are trying to play the same game... playmaker. But there's no one to finish the play. One of the two needs to play a scoring role and get into position instead of always looking for one more pass.

Man, Giroux was on a 3 on 2 last night, he had a perfect shot on net, but instead he passed into traffic and killed the play.

I agree with just about everyone that Hartnell needs to be moved off the 1st line, but the problem is that he's got nowhere to go. If you move up Brayden, you can't saddle Vinny with Simmonds and Hartnell. And the 3rd line is set right now, so they won't mess with the chemistry. He's the odd man out.

[radoran]

Do "something" with Hartnell?

 

Like what? Pay him $4.75M a year for the next five years?

 

'Cause that sounds like the Flyers' plan for now...

[JackStraw]

Am the only one who thinks it may not make a whole lot of sense to point to individual players (whether it's Voracek, Giroux, Simmonds, Hartnell... ok, maybe not Hartnell) when the whole team is struggling to score goals? Is it possible that because the new coach has them committing to playing actual team defense that maybe they are still working on how to generate offense without ignoring their defensive responsibilities?

 

How about just giving the team and the new coach at least the bulk of this season to see what kind of team we/he have/has?

 

Or is that just crazy talk?

[jackhole]

Man, Giroux was on a 3 on 2 last night, he had a perfect shot on net, but instead he passed into traffic and killed the play.

 

Tell tale sign of poor confidence, right there.  And contrary to that, you can see Cout's beginning to take those type of shots now as his confidence grows.

[jackhole]

No Doubt Jack, I wouldn't advocate making any moves until, say, the trade deadline.  But I do think that, right now, Jake needs the 'kick in the pants'/smelling salts or whatever, because the last couple of weeks, his funk smells a lot worse than that of his teammates, who frankly, smell funky.

[mojo1917]

@JackStraw

 

seems like crazy talk to me .-ninja-

[radoran]

@JackStraw

A valid and potentially plausible scenario you describe, yes.

 

I just don't think that the overpassing and the perimeter play in the O zone is necessarily because of "team defense."

Doubly so on the power play.

 

Guys need to put pucks on net. Team is 19th in shots on goal and for all the passing, they're just 26th in assists.

[ruxpin]

I agree with just about everyone that Hartnell needs to be moved off the 1st line, but the problem is that he's got nowhere to go

 

Bingo!  That's exactly the problem.

[JackStraw]

@jackhole - I don't object to anyone getting a kick in the pants now and then. But the team is 6-3-1 in their last 10. After being horrible last year, having a horrible TC, and then being horrible again beginning this year, I'm actually kind of happy. And we have good goaltending to boot.

[JackStraw]

@JackStraw

A valid and potentially plausible scenario you describe, yes.

 

I just don't think that the overpassing and the perimeter play in the O zone is necessarily because of "team defense."

Doubly so on the power play.

 

Guys need to put pucks on net. Team is 19th in shots on goal and for all the passing, they're just 26th in assists.

 

I don't disagree with any of that. Actually I agree with all of that. But I also think it's a process they go through as a team. I don't expect them to go from horrible to really good quickly. I'm pretty impressed overall with the job Berube has done. I'm willing to be a little patient with him and the players.