Where does Mason rank among goalies?

[yave1964]

Flyercanuck in another post wrote that it is nice to see a real top ten goalie in Philadelphia for the first time in two decades and it got me thinking, Where does Mason rank among the leagues goaltenders?

 

 Best in the game would be, in no particular order:

 

Niemi, Lundquist, Rask, Rinne, Quick, Crawford, Price, Holtby

 

A step below:

 

Fleury, Miller, Anderson, Ward, Bishop, Varlamov, Bobrovsky, Mike Smith, Luongo, Jimmy Howard and Halak

 

  I think it is fair to sat Mason is not in the company of the elite eight in the first category. He probably fits somewhere in the second bunch, who arbitrarily, my own rankings I would list them:

 

9. Fleury

10. Bishop

11. Bobrovsky

12. Luongo

13. Ward

14. Mike Smith

15. Halak

16. Howard

17. Varlamov

18. Ryan Miller

19. Anderson

20. Harding

 

This list leaves out solid NHLers such as Hiller, Lehtonen, Bernier, Reimer, Schneider and Brodeur.

  My personal opinion based off his body of work in the third of this season plus his time with the Flyers last year, and taking into consideration his amazing rookie year proving he has the ability, but also taking into consideration the putrid play for 2 and a half seasons in Columbus, I personally have a difficult time ranking him anywhere near the top ten. IMHO I see him somewhere around the Ryan Miller level agt 18, 19 perhaps a slot or two higher but certainly no more. He could move up, but needs to keep it up for longer than two months.

  Think of it this way, if you were the Coyotes, would you trade Mike Smith even up for Mason? Of course not, it would anger your fans (all 4 of them) and would be considered a step back bases off what Smith has done over the course of several years, not several months.

  No let me make it clear I am not denigrating Mason, I love him, I never saw a player EVER treated so bad by an organization as Mason by Columbus. Every year a new coach, maybe two goalie coaches, a new philosophy and redefining him over and over. And never really defended as the fans turned on him. Mistreatment of a potentially young semi-star goaltender for absolutely no reason. Getting him out of Columbus was the greatest thing that has happened to him since Hitchcock left him to the trained monkeys running the Columbus organization.

  So late teens with an asterisk or up arrow showing he has potential to move up. Sounds about right to me. Thoughts?

Edited December 5, 2013 by yave1964

[OccamsRazor]

I think it is fair to sat Mason is not in the company of the elite eight in the first category.

 

 

Yes his is working his way their to be in the elite conversation but he isn't there yet....i'll say his the best goalie i've ever seen in the Orange in black.

 

But like i said in the other Mason thread my first year it was Hexy's last year in Philly before being traded for BIG E.

 

He just wasn't good....and slow looking to me....then it was on to Tommy Soderstrom who left a lot of to be desired.

 

Then afterwards just a turnstile in net it seems.

 

Early 2000 till about 2007 it was just dumpster diving, i mean really taking a crappy Yotes cast off goalie (Esche) and almost riding him to the ECF in 2004....but never no serious goaltending talent since i've watched....but now i'll anoint them the best Philly tandem i've ever seen...all i got so far.... 

[Lunatic]

You have to love what we've seen at the end of last year and the beginning of this season. Mason has been great, certainly, in your first group,  during this period. However the jury is out. My guess is that we will know where he stands amongst goalies by Christmas next year. In the mean time it has been really exciting to see the Flyers first top-notch goalie since Pelle!

[ruxpin]

Yave,

 

I agree that I don't think Mason deserves to be in the same conversation with your first group of eight.   I just think someone has to play at an elite level for longer than 20-something games to deserve to be there.

 

When you get to the second group, there's a mixture of "done it for awhile" and "doing well very recently."    First, of all, I don't know that I'd put Harding, Howard, Varlomov, Bobrovsky or Anderson into the same group as the others.  For Varlomov and Bobrovsky there is the longevity thing for me.  Also, Bobrovsky this year is proving my irritation with him in Philly. Granted he won the Vezina last year but it WAS a shortened season.  I know everyone else also played  shortened season and they did present a Stanley Cup and all, but the short season didn't allow for Bob's penchant of playing well for a stretch and then shitting the bed.  It was long enough that his "playing well for a stretch" was a longer stretch than shown previously, but I still think that over an 82 game season his track record is that he comes back down to earth.  And he hasn't been horrible this year, but I don't put him in that company.  I'd like to wait and see what Varlomov does over a bigger sampling as well.  So far, so good.    And Anderson is not elite.  He plays elite and certainly did last year, but another "we'll see."

 

Mason is playing very well.    Well enough that if the question is simply THIS year with no names or history attached to it, he's in the top half.  Not top 5-6 or maybe even 10, but top 15.   He's basically carrying his team, so that should say something.   But if the question is simply best current player and that includes history, name, etc., then no way for the very reasons I used above for Bob and Anderson.

 

Unlike OR, I go all the way back to before the Flyers' Cup teams, which makes me roughly 90 years old.  So, I got to see Parent and Lindberg and Hextall and Peeters, and all the meatloaf in between.   I have to agree with OR, though, that so far he's certainly the best since Hextall's first tour with the Flyers.  Like Bob and Varly and Anderson, I guess we will see.

[OccamsRazor]

  So, I got to see Parent and Lindberg and Hextall

 

 

Yeah yeah just rub it in!!!

 

REPORTED!!!

[brelic]

Mason is playing very well.    Well enough that if the question is simply THIS year with no names or history attached to it, he's in the top half.  Not top 5-6 or maybe even 10, but top 15.   He's basically carrying his team, so that should say something.   But if the question is simply best current player and that includes history, name, etc., then no way for the very reasons I used above for Bob and Anderson.

 

Let me ask you (the universal "you") this: Over the first 28 games or so, is there a player in the NHL more valuable to his team than Mason has been to the Flyers? I'm not sure there is, but then again, 90% of the hockey I've watched has been the O&B.

 

Without him, they are in Florida territory.

 

The fact that he's posting 2.09, .934 on a team that hangs him out to dry more often than an old Korean spinster is amazing to me. He is giving his mediocre team a chance to win every single time he's out there. And in a few cases, he just said "to hell with you guys, I'll do it myself."

[flyercanuck]

@yave1964

 

yave - my "top ten" annointment was based on his save percentage this year. I think it's a good way to judge goalies on a single season. Better teams will obviously help a goalies wins and GAA. It's why I'm also not ready to throw top ten money or longterm contract at him. 

[ruxpin]

Let me ask you (the universal "you") this: Over the first 28 games or so, is there a player in the NHL more valuable to his team than Mason has been to the Flyers? I'm not sure there is, but then again, 90% of the hockey I've watched has been the O&B.

 

Without him, they are in Florida territory.

 

The fact that he's posting 2.09, .934 on a team that hangs him out to dry more often than an old Korean spinster is amazing to me. He is giving his mediocre team a chance to win every single time he's out there. And in a few cases, he just said "to hell with you guys, I'll do it myself."

 

Do you think they'd even be as good as Florida without Mason?   Maybe, I don't know.  It would be ugly.

 

There's probably someone out there that's very valuable to their team but I can't come up with someone who so far has been AS valuable.  I too watch largely Flyers so it's difficult for me to say authoritatively.  I just cannot think of anyone.

 

I'm not trying to negate what Mason has done.   I said top 15 if given JUST this year, but I think I would personally put him much higher (again, JUST this year).   It doesn't  however, change my main answer to Yave because the way he framed the question I feel like I have to consider whole body of work, not just 28 games.

 

But good lord, can you imagine this season with Bryzgalov?   There'd be bodies piled in the Delaware River under the Ben Franklin Bridge.

[ruxpin]

@yave1964

 

yave - my "top ten" annointment was based on his save percentage this year. I think it's a good way to judge goalies on a single season. Better teams will obviously help a goalies wins and GAA. It's why I'm also not ready to throw top ten money or longterm contract at him. 

 

If we're talking just this year, I think top 10 is quite fair.

[murraycraven]

If we're talking just this year, I think top 10 is quite fair.

 

top 5 IMO if we are just talking about this year.

[ruxpin]

top 5 IMO if we are just talking about this year.

Possibly. Particularly when considering where his tan would be if he wasn't playing as well.

I'm trying to list people in my head.

I'm coming up with (in no order): Crawford, Rask, Niemi, maybe Harding. Anyone else?

Oh, and yave, I wouldn't personally include Price in the top eight list. I just don't think he ever has been or will be in that category

[King Knut]

Brian Boucher really could have been a top notch guy. His rookie year, he was pretty brilliant and e was perhaps the strongest component in that cup run that fell apart when Lindros decided to try to come back to soon.

His injury, lemelin and Barber really screwed him over the next year. Then Clarke sent him to Phoenix for esche and made the Cechmonster #1.

He set the NHL record for consecutive shut out minutes for the yotes and his pads went in the Hall of Fame, but he was too inconsistent to win a permanent starting job either there or in San Jose where he also had some great seasons filling in when called upon. With decent and consistent coaching (like mason is getting now) Boosh could have had a stellar career and been one of the premiere net minders of the 00's.

Yes his is working his way their to be in the elite conversation but he isn't there yet....i'll say his the best goalie i've ever seen in the Orange in black.

But like i said in the other Mason thread my first year it was Hexy's last year in Philly before being traded for BIG E.

He just wasn't good....and slow looking to me....then it was on to Tommy Soderstrom who left a lot of to be desired.

Then afterwards just a turnstile in net it seems.

Early 2000 till about 2007 it was just dumpster diving, i mean really taking a crappy Yotes cast off goalie (Esche) and almost riding him to the ECF in 2004....but never no serious goaltending talent since i've watched....but now i'll anoint them the best Philly tandem i've ever seen...all i got so far....

[King Knut]

Hextall is a really interesting case

The game an the way goaltenders had to play changed utterly during his career.

He was such a loon, that he was not emblematic of either era (in his prime, the man was as good an outlet passer than Desjardins) Ultimately I think we can thank Roy from reinventing NHL goaltending, and then a combination of advances in pad tech plus Brodeur for refining it from there. But in the midst of it all was Hexy, just hanging in there with the changes and rolling with the punches. Literally in his case.

But if you can see a game from the mid eighties sometime, it's really something how different goalies in particular were.

Yeah yeah just rub it in!!!

REPORTED!!!

[doom88]

I feel the same way about Boosh.

[radoran]

top 5 IMO if we are just talking about this year.

 

Steve Mason: Great Goalie or Greatest Goalie Ever?

 

Possibly. Particularly when considering where his tan would be if he wasn't playing as well.

I'm trying to list people in my head.

I'm coming up with (in no order): Crawford, Rask, Niemi, maybe Harding. Anyone else?

 

Trade him now. His value will never be higher.

 

[flyercanuck]

Possibly. Particularly when considering where his tan would be if he wasn't playing as well.

I'm trying to list people in my head.

I'm coming up with (in no order): Crawford, Rask, Niemi, maybe Harding. Anyone else?

Oh, and yave, I wouldn't personally include Price in the top eight list. I just don't think he ever has been or will be in that category

 

If we're talking this year with Mason then Price should get the same benefit....and he's been every bit as good. He's got better save percentage and GAA. He just beat the Bruins last night to take over 1st in the Atlantic. He plays on a team whose top scorer is a defenceman (and two of their top 4 scorers are Dmen) He plays on a team that seems to have a prerequisite that you must be under 5'9" and 180 pounds to play on their forward line. He plays on a team with Danny (I don't give a @#$% about THAT end of the ice) Briere. He plays on a team that is the hottest in the league and it's not because of their incredible scoring. Price is definately a top goalie in the league...you just don't like him because he isn't Amish.

[JackStraw]

@flyercanuck - Definitely agree (I'm not Amish either). If I was building a team and could pick any goalie in the league it would probably be Price (although Mason might make me re-think that if he keeps playing like he has been).

[ruxpin]

If we're talking this year with Mason then Price should get the same benefit....and he's been every bit as good. He's got better save percentage and GAA. He just beat the Bruins last night to take over 1st in the Atlantic. He plays on a team whose top scorer is a defenceman (and two of their top 4 scorers are Dmen) He plays on a team that seems to have a prerequisite that you must be under 5'9" and 180 pounds to play on their forward line. He plays on a team with Danny (I don't give a @#$% about THAT end of the ice) Briere. He plays on a team that is the hottest in the league and it's not because of their incredible scoring. Price is definately a top goalie in the league...you just don't like him because he isn't Amish.

 

 

See, i'm jumping back and forth here between discussions.   My Price comment was overall, not just this year (before you jumped in into the thread and clarified where the question came from, I'd assumed we were talking total body of work).    If just this year, I can't disagree with you at all, non-Amish status aside.

 

Overall, I think you put him in the second group Yave listed.  

[yave1964]

Amish. Love it.

[flyercanuck]

@JackStraw

 

Wait a minute...you're NOT Amish??? Welcome to ignore arsehole!

[radoran]

Frakkn' Mennonite splitters!

[JackStraw]

@flyercanuck - Bigot.

[flyercanuck]

@JackStraw

 

 

I can't hear you....you're on ignore remember?

[JackStraw]

@JackStraw

 

 

I can't hear you....you're on ignore remember?

BIGOT!!!

[flyercanuck]

That's better!