Neal suspended 5 games

[hf101]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=695100&navid=DL|NHL|home

 

5 games seems right for me.  I didn't notice though that Marchand was also tripped to the ice before being knee'd by Neal.  (eyeroll)

 

Anyone know what Shanny  meant by saying Neal had no history by terms of the CBA?  

[yave1964]

Five games, seems about right......

[Polaris922]

Figured 3-5 so no surprises there

[ruxpin]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=695100&navid=DL%7CNHL%7Chome'>http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=695100&navid=DL|NHL|home[/url

5 games seems right for me. I didn't notice though that Marchand was also tripped to the ice before being knee'd by Neal. (eyeroll)

Anyone know what Shanny meant by saying Neal had no history by terms of the CBA?

I expected five games given that it was a phone hearing, but it should have been more. For a league trying to cut down on head shots and this was a blatant deliberate head shot with clear intent to injure, he'd have gotten a lot more from me. Every single host on NHL home ice today agrees.

Is there a statue of limitations on history with the CBA? because otherwise I don't understand Shanty's comment.

[flyerrod]

Is there a statue of limitations on history with the CBA? because otherwise I don't understand Shanty's comment.

Suspensions against Flyers are not counted in any player's history........It is another Bettman rule....

 

Due to the fact that Marchand was able to continue play probably reduced the suspension and kept it from being an in person meeting. Now all I can do is hope that Thornton's suspension  is appealed due to it was a penguin he injured....Being the HUGE Boston fan that I am.....

Edited December 9, 2013 by flyerrod

[nossagog]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=695100&navid=DL|NHL|home

 

5 games seems right for me.  I didn't notice though that Marchand was also tripped to the ice before being knee'd by Neal.  (eyeroll)

 

Anyone know what Shanny  meant by saying Neal had no history by terms of the CBA?  

 

The terms of the CBA limit the ammount of time that your "history" can count against you in determining suspensions.  I think its like 12 months.   So if you clocked someone in Dec of 2011, you have a historiable(I'm coining it) offense until Dec of 2012 where they can add additional time for  a second offense(first is say 5, second may be 5+5).  Then in Januray you can do the same thing over and they can't use the first one against you.

 

As for the 5 games.   Fair call, and I hope that this sinks into Neals head. No way that he needs to do something like that with the talent he has.

[B21]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=695100&navid=DL|NHL|home

 

5 games seems right for me.  I didn't notice though that Marchand was also tripped to the ice before being knee'd by Neal.  (eyeroll)

 

Anyone know what Shanny  meant by saying Neal had no history by terms of the CBA?  

 

Seems fair.  I guess the Steckel defense didn't work.

[B21]

The terms of the CBA limit the ammount of time that your "history" can count against you in determining suspensions.  I think its like 12 months.   So if you clocked someone in Dec of 2011, you have a historiable(I'm coining it) offense until Dec of 2012 where they can add additional time for  a second offense(first is say 5, second may be 5+5).  Then in Januray you can do the same thing over and they can't use the first one against you.

 

As for the 5 games.   Fair call, and I hope that this sinks into Neals head. No way that he needs to do something like that with the talent he has.

 

I actually thought it was 18 months - his last suspension being April 2012 from the Flyers series.

 

12 seems too short as far as a "clean slate".  Even 18 is too short i/m/h/o.

[nossagog]

I actually thought it was 18 months - his last suspension being April 2012 from the Flyers series.

 

12 seems too short as far as a "clean slate".  Even 18 is too short i/m/h/o.

 

 See section © below, your were correct in the 18 months

 

National Hockey League Collective Bargaining Agreement

Article 18: Commissioner Discipline

 

Notwithstanding anything stated in Article 17 (Grievances)

hereof, all disputes involving a fine or suspension imposed upon

a player by the Commissioner (or his designee) for conduct on the

ice, will be processed exclusively as follows:

(a) Maximum fining authority will be increased to $1,000,

with the player's club being fined the same amount as the player.

(b) For the purpose of calculating salary lost due to

suspension, the following formula will apply:

1. for first offenders (first incident

requiring supplementary discipline in the form of a game

suspension), player to forfeit one day's salary for each regular

season game lost (1/total number of days in the season measured

from the date of the League's first regular season game to the

last, irrespective of the player's team's schedule);

2.for repeat offenders (second or more incidents

requiring game suspension), player to forfeit one game's salary

for each regular season game lost (1/number of regular season

games for each regular season game suspended);

3.only salary, signing and reporting bonuses to be

included in calculating the player's annual compensation for

the 1994/95 season; and

4.deferred compensation and marketing agreements shall

also be included in calculating the player's annual

compensation beginning with 1995/96 season.

© Status as a "first" or "repeat" offender shall be

re-determined every eighteen months, on a rolling basis, i.e.,

where a player does not have another suspension for 18 months,

his next suspension will be treated as a "first" offense.

(d) The League shall not modify or amend the procedures

attached as Exhibit 8 without affording the NHLPA a reasonable

opportunity to consider the proposed changes and consult with

regard thereto.

Edited December 9, 2013 by nossagog

[mojo1917]

that CBA statute of limitations seems fair, it is after all a contact sport and guys are moving pretty quickly, things happen.

 

5 games, seems fair too, after all it was marchand...

 

Boy-o should have his head on a swivel for the rest of his career though , word gets around.

[blocker]

Due to the fact that Marchand was able to continue play probably reduced the suspension

 

Yeah, and also because it was Marchand. 

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

I expected five games given that it was a phone hearing, but it should have been more. For a league trying to cut down on head shots and this was a blatant deliberate head shot with clear intent to injure, he'd have gotten a lot more from me. Every single host on NHL home ice today agrees.

 

@ruxpin,

 

Completely agree with this.  I think this is one of the dirtiest, intent to injure plays I have ever seen.  And then he lied about it.  The next time they play, I expect Marchand to exact some revenge.

[Polaris922]

@ruxpin,

Completely agree with this. I think this is one of the dirtiest, intent to injure plays I have ever seen. And then he lied about it. The next time they play, I expect Marchand to exact some revenge.

So you turned it off right after the knee I take it?

[flyerrod]

Completely agree with this. I think this is one of the dirtiest, intent to injure plays I have ever seen. And then he lied about it. The next time they play, I expect Marchand to exact some revenge.

 

For the record, I believe that Marchand will try to get even or dive trying.......... <_<

[ruxpin]

So you turned it off right after the knee I take it?

 

LOL

 

I know a Pens' fan won't agree, but I thought the Neal thing was much more dirty than the Thornton thing.   Add to that that Neal has a long history of being a dirty ***** punk and Thornton doesn't, well, there you have it.

 

By the way, I'm honestly not making this up, but that was the general consensus on the broadcasts out of Toronto today, too.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

So you turned it off right after the knee I take it?

 

No.  I think it is a classic example of the league disciplining the outcome and not the action.

 

Let me ask you this.  If Orpik was not knocked out, would Thornton's actions be suspendable?

[jammer2]

  Very fair and just outcome. This is the type of stuff the league really *really* needs to crack down on. Neal showed no regard for Marchand's health. Very dirty, weaselly play, if you don't like the guy, drop the gloves (although Marchand does refuse to fight at times). Get him back some other way.

[Polaris922]

@ruxpin

@AlaskaFlyerFan

They're avoiding the obvious and feeling compassion for Thornton's post game remorse. Premeditation as opposed to instant reaction to opportunity.

Whether Orpik was injured or not, slew footing is intent to injure. The act itself leaves the victim vulnerable to head-ice contact unable to protect themselves. That's why it's a match penalty regardless of the punches afterward.

Now I want Neal to get his ass beat by the Pens organization myself, and Marchand or not his actions that game sicken me. But to assault a man from behind, making him helpless, then dropping on top of him and punching him several times, smacking his head off the ice, is a crime.

Maybe the Canadian commentators are just saying that cuz Orpik is American.

In criminal terms... Neal is misdemeanor assault. Thornton is aggravated assault at best, attempted homicide at worst. Ask George Zimmerman what the legal response is to a man on top of you smacking your head off the ground.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Polaris922

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

@ruxpin

@AlaskaFlyerFan

They're avoiding the obvious and feeling compassion for Thornton's post game remorse. Premeditation as opposed to instant reaction to opportunity.

Whether Orpik was injured or not, slew footing is intent to injure. The act itself leaves the victim vulnerable to head-ice contact unable to protect themselves. That's why it's a match penalty regardless of the punches afterward.

Now I want Neal to get his ass beat by the Pens organization myself, and Marchand or not his actions that game sicken me. But to assault a man from behind, making him helpless, then dropping on top of him and punching him several times, smacking his head off the ice, is a crime.

Maybe the Canadian commentators are just saying that cuz Orpik is American.

In criminal terms... Neal is misdemeanor assault. Thornton is aggravated assault at best, attempted homicide at worst. Ask George Zimmerman what the legal response is to a man on top of you smacking your head off the ground.

 

I'm not defending Thornton or his actions nor am I feeling any compassion for him. 

 

I'll give you the premeditation vs reaction to opportunity.  Thornton had a long time to think about getting after Orpik.   But I still think the Neal knee was way more dirty and dangerous.  Clean players wouldn't have even thought about it let alone react to the opportunity.  Would Bobby Ryan, Henrik Zetterberg, or Nathan Horton taken that opportunity?  Hell no!  I would even go as far as saying Matt Cooke (of the last 2 years) wouldn't have done that.  Neal could have ended Marchand's career with that knee. 

[Polaris922]

I'm not defending Thornton or his actions nor am I feeling any compassion for him.

I'll give you the premeditation vs reaction to opportunity. Thornton had a long time to think about getting after Orpik. But I still think the Neal knee was way more dirty and dangerous. Clean players wouldn't have even thought about it let alone react to the opportunity. Would Bobby Ryan, Henrik Zetterberg, or Nathan Horton taken that opportunity? Hell no! I would even go as far as saying Matt Cooke (of the last 2 years) wouldn't have done that. Neal could have ended Marchand's career with that knee.

And Thornton could've ended Orpik's with the slew foot, or punch one, or punch two, or punch three... Neal's actions sicken me, but Thornton's are far worse. Anyone unable to recognize that is playing homer games. One strike vs. four... No injury vs. concussion. Premeditated vs. spur of the moment.

Simple assault vs aggravated assault. As I said in the other post... Ask George Zimmerman what the legal defense to getting your head punched into the ground is.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

Homer games?  I don't have a dog in the fight! 

 

Agree to disagree on this.  We're getting nowhere.

[Polaris922]

Homer games? I don't have a dog in the fight!

Agree to disagree on this. We're getting nowhere.

Homer games as in Flyers fan hating on a Penguin player

Even pointing out the facts like that doesn't phase you? 4 hits to 1? Premeditation? The difference in injury? That slew footing is a match penalty alone? Not to mention the three punches after on a downed opponent?

I mean seriously... If there were no Neal incident and no slew foot, just an outright fight where a man gets knocked down, and Thornton punched him three more times after knocking him down, we'd be raving what a douchebag he is for punching the man while he's down. All those factors combined don't even phase you as the dirtiest thing we've seen in some time??

[ruxpin]

Anyone unable to recognize that is playing homer games

 

I'm sorry, I like you, but I see only one person in this with a case of homer games. I mean, when I'm telling you about NHL Home Ice, it's not just talking heads; it's generations of hockey players.  Espisito, Weeks, Potvin, Barnaby, etc. etc. etc.  All of them more about Neal than Thornton (whom they also think was a moron).

 

I like that you're mad at Neal so I really should just leave it at that.

 

But whereas Thornton is a decent guy that flipped out for whatever reason, as AFF points out, this is a behavior that is ingrained in an animal.  This is the first I've seen him with a knee to a head, but I've seen at least a dozen times him go cavalierly at someone's head in an attempt to injure.

 

This really is not about the Pens.  I like Orpik.  I'd take him on my team in a heart beat.   Talbot was my favorite non-Flyer before becoming one.  I really like Kunitz and Dupuis.

 

If there's any bias here it's about my visceral dislike of Neal because I really do think he has a long history of being a gutless coward puke POS whose character came out loud and clear by taking the opportunity to hit a prone player (a missed tripping call on Crosby, btw) by kneeing him in the head.

 

Yeah, no bias or anti-Pens thing here.  It's just I truly believe without names and without logos that the kneeing was FAR worse.

[Polaris922]

I'm sorry, I like you, but I see only one person in this with a case of homer games.

I like that you're mad at Neal so I really should just leave it at that.

But whereas Thornton is a decent guy that flipped out for whatever reason, as AFF points out, this is a behavior that is ingrained in an animal. This is the first I've seen him with a knee to a head, but I've seen at least a dozen times him go cavalierly at someone's head in an attempt to injure.

This really is not about the Pens. I like Orpik. I'd take him on my team in a heart beat. Talbot was my favorite non-Flyer before becoming one. I really like Kunitz and Dupuis.

If there's any bias here it's about my visceral dislike of Neal because I really do think he has a long history of being a gutless coward puke POS whose character came out loud and clear by taking the opportunity to hit a prone player (a missed tripping call on Crosby, btw) by kneeing him in the head.

Yeah, no bias or anti-Pens thing here. It's just I truly believe without names and without logos that the kneeing was FAR worse.

Then that's where we'll remain opposed. I think if you take Neal out of the equation and say that was someone you don't already despise... Say Logan Couture, your judgement would be different for the same incident.

Maybe it's my job that does it, but I spend a lot of time evaluating actions, intent, and outcome. A man was attacked from behind, knocked to the ground, pummeled in the face and hauled to the hospital on a stretcher. In Pennsylvania courts, even here in Pittsburgh, thats a period of incarceration. a knee to the head is a simple assault reduced to harassment in court as there was no injury, and a monetary fine gets assessed with a lecture not to do it again. How anyone can see the pummeling as a lesser offense than a knee to the head that the victim stayed in the game after is just beyond me.

[ruxpin]

by the way, @Polaris922

 

I'm not trying to diminish what Thornton did, although I know it HAS to be coming across like that.

 

Whatever Thornton gets, he deserves at least that much and then some.   What he did was utterly ridiculous.  

 

I just think Neal should have gotten a lot worse than he did.    I also think Neal's action was worse, but the intent isn't to convince you because I have as much chance of that as your convincing me otherwise.   Just stating where I am on it.  I'll let you have the last word and will stop--especially since I just remembered I am on the Pens' board.