OccamsRazor Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 He's on pace for 29(.45), was on pace for 30 last year. We're not talking about last year...Schenn looked way bettertlast year but that was last year. Clearly the US National Team sees something you don't. Never said he wasn't a good player just not a good fit in Philly...i wanted JVR traded don't regret that not matter how many stats you quote...i just didn't want to trade him for Schenn not straight up...but i'm not GM. Just didn't really want anything from the Leafs....but that was just my opinion. If Schenn can find his game from last year i'd be a little happier with him but still will not like the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 We're not talking about last year...Schenn looked way bettertlast year but that was last year. Never said he wasn't a good player just not a good fit in Philly...i wanted JVR traded don't regret that not matter how many stats you quote...i just didn't want to trade him for Schenn not straight up...but i'm not GM. Just didn't really want anything from the Leafs....but that was just my opinion. If Schenn can find his game from last year i'd be a little happier with him but still will not like the trade. The bolded statement is pretty much what I've been saying. They gave away a top asset (#2 pick from the then worst-season in organization history) for less than value. Glad you agree with me on that. And I've also been very clear that Schenn can be a productive middling defenceman. To recap (again):1) horrible, no-good, very bad trade - how anyone can argue this point is beyond me2) Schenn is a fairly unremarkable, serviceable defenceman3) Schenn could improve marginally in the near future, will likely have a long career4) JVR was "on pace" for 30 last year and is "on pace" for 29 this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Glad you agree with me on that. I've always agreed i'm bored and just poking at you...hee hee my last day off from work been off since Dec 17th and i don't want to go back. Schenn is really maybe top 4 on a team and that is pushing it. And i'd say for a 5th overall maybe a disappointment. Hey how a bout a top 5 swap...Schenn for Jack Johnson? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I've always agreed i'm bored and just poking at you...hee hee my last day off from work been off since Dec 17th and i don't want to go back. Schenn is really maybe top 4 on a team and that is pushing it. And i'd say for a 5th overall maybe a disappointment. Hey how a bout a top 5 swap...Schenn for Jack Johnson? Yeah, I'm back in the office after a week and am a little grumpy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 We can agree to differ.Says who.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 At the time many people really wanted Luke. I remember one poster even suggested that they acquired Brayden to help lure Luke into town. Can't see how that makes sense, but I think it's safe to say that the progress Luke hasn't made is a surprise to many. He's young and becoming a quality D man takes a while, more for some less for otherS, but at the time it really Should have been a good trade even if I do t like it in hindsight. I can't blame homer for it. JVR looked like a mistake at the time. He just wasn't working out and co tuning what he learned his one good year. The trade apparently woke him up. Seems to have put Luke to sleep. Someone needs to wake this kid up. Maybe some trade rumors or a goo solid benching by chief will help. The problem is mezzo isn't playing any better and now they're actually in the hunt and every game matters. I actually thought this trade (at the time and for the defensive needs of the Flyers) was not terrible. Always liked JvR but we needed defensive help at the time... With that being said I don't get how anyone can make the claim, as it stands today, that it was a good trade. This trade was pretty bad IMO but hindisght it 20/20. I would much rather have JvR playing wing alongside G and have Lauridsen playing limited minutes than L Schenn as a 3/4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Young? Needs time to develop? Don't be impatient? James vanRiemsdyk says "hello" More bitching and moaning about a young, developing player you will not have heard in a looooooong time. this is kinda confusingly stated, so forgive me if i misunderstand you here. but, i gather the gist of your message is that we're being shortsighted and whiney here in this thread. i disagree. i mean.. if you applied that accusation to most things on this site, you'd be right a vast majority of the time. however, Luke Schenn is regressing in his development. this 'kid' is making very very basic mistakes. when he should take the man, he doesn't. when he shouldn't, he does. he doesn't take away passing lanes and continually misses his assignments. he keeps 2 hands on the stick to such an extreme that he's not utilizing any reach. he routinely screens out mason and, even worse, has deflected more goals into our own net that i can remember a D man doing in a long time. i've keyed on Luke several times this year because, to me, he's been a glaring weakness on defense. i can remember about 2 or 3 games where he played an overall solid game. on too many occasions he's put himself into limbo land where he is essentially not doing anything. we could go into all the numbers line by line, but i think that you'll find the same thing i did... his overall numbers are in a real decline. sure, we could argue ice time as a major factor in that too, but why do you think his ice time is down? because the flyers actually see what we're seeing here in this thread. Luke Schenn is a bust... right here, right now. i'm not gonna play clairvoyant and suppose that he cannot rebound, being that is only 25 y/o, but at a $3.6m cap hit i think we can agree on one thing... HE IS A PROBLEM. He's in his 6th full nhl season now... i think we can drop 'developing' and recognize him for what he is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 this is kinda confusingly stated, so forgive me if i misunderstand you here. but, i gather the gist of your message is that we're being shortsighted and whiney here in this thread. i disagree. i mean.. if you applied that accusation to most things on this site, you'd be right a vast majority of the time. however, Luke Schenn is regressing in his development. this 'kid' is making very very basic mistakes. when he should take the man, he doesn't. when he shouldn't, he does. he doesn't take away passing lanes and continually misses his assignments. he keeps 2 hands on the stick to such an extreme that he's not utilizing any reach. he routinely screens out mason and, even worse, has deflected more goals into our own net that i can remember a D man doing in a long time. i've keyed on Luke several times this year because, to me, he's been a glaring weakness on defense. i can remember about 2 or 3 games where he played an overall solid game. on too many occasions he's put himself into limbo land where he is essentially not doing anything. we could go into all the numbers line by line, but i think that you'll find the same thing i did... his overall numbers are in a real decline. sure, we could argue ice time as a major factor in that too, but why do you think his ice time is down? because the flyers actually see what we're seeing here in this thread. Luke Schenn is a bust... right here, right now. i'm not gonna play clairvoyant and suppose that he cannot rebound, being that is only 25 y/o, but at a $3.6m cap hit i think we can agree on one thing... HE IS A PROBLEM. He's in his 6th full nhl season now... i think we can drop 'developing' and recognize him for what he is now. The point - fleshed out further in the thread - is that it was impatience with a young, developing player that got they INTO this situation. I hope that the rest of the thread shows you how much in agreement I am with your bolded statement as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) We're not talking about last year...Schenn looked way bettertlast year but that was last year. Never said he wasn't a good player just not a good fit in Philly...i wanted JVR traded don't regret that not matter how many stats you quote...i just didn't want to trade him for Schenn not straight up...but i'm not GM. Just didn't really want anything from the Leafs....but that was just my opinion. If Schenn can find his game from last year i'd be a little happier with him but still will not like the trade. If there is one thing I can't stand it's when somdbody brags about how good a player is playing, but only looks at a fraction of his career. It's the definition of short-sighted. It's very weasley too. Aside from an 11 game stretch here during one playof run, JVR was a very soft and streaky player during his time here. Unless someond is going to recognize that, don't talk to me about how he "almost" scored 30 or is "on pace" to this year. Not to mention, I hate when people act like it's a given a guy would have done the same thing if he stayed with his previous team. A trade can often serve as a catalyst for a struggling player to get his **** together. That doesn't mean it would have happened if he stayed with his previous team t hough. And yes, Luke Schenn does suck. Edited January 5, 2014 by fanaticV3.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I do think JVR will eventually become a 30 goal guy, but did not want to see him do it for the Flyers. The guy simply does not play Flyer hockey, I agree, no heart in this kid. The frustrating thing is he has the talent and skill to be much better. Was not sad to see him go, but we HAD to get more in return. Luke is a finished product, sorry...I don't see any upside with him, what you see is what you get, a plodding hard hitter who cannot get from point A to point B fast enough, and that is the way it will always be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I do think JVR will eventually become a 30 goal guy, but did not want to see him do it for the Flyers. The guy simply does not play Flyer hockey, I agree, no heart in this kid. The frustrating thing is he has the talent and skill to be much better. Was not sad to see him go, but we HAD to get more in return. Luke is a finished product, sorry...I don't see any upside with him, what you see is what you get, a plodding hard hitter who cannot get from point A to point B fast enough, and that is the way it will always be. Nor do I think he would have been capable of doing it here. Some guys are so good they are going to succeed no matter where they play, but others (many others) it's all about the environment. Some guys improved when traded and some absolutely tank. JVR is an example of the former, Mark Bell and Kyle Calder are examples of the latter. Luke Schenn blows. No disagreement there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Nor do I think he would have been capable of doing it here. Some guys are so good they are going to succeed no matter where they play, but others (many others) it's all about the environment. Some guys improved when traded and some absolutely tank. JVR is an example of the former, Mark Bell and Kyle Calder are examples of the latter. Luke Schenn blows. No disagreement there. Agree with this 100%, people gotta realize JVR is playing on the top pp in Toronto with Kessel, he would not have been afforded the same luxury in Philly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Agree with this 100%, people gotta realize JVR is playing on the top pp in Toronto with Kessel, he would not have been afforded the same luxury in Philly. Why not? And, given that, how is this not Patrick Sharp - Mark II? Never give a guy a chance to play in the role that he would be most productive, claim that he's disappointing because he hasn't maximized his production, trade him for a pile of pucks.* * "pile of pucks" is hyperbole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) Agree with this 100%, people gotta realize JVR is playing on the top pp in Toronto with Kessel, he would not have been afforded the same luxury in Philly. Calling the Leafs powerplay a luxury is just silly. No, but you are right. JVR really got an opportunity here and, to his credit, ran with it. There was a lot stiffer competition for him in Philly it seems. The biggest thing I've been surprised with is how deceptively fast he is. Most of the time, he's also the only Leaf that seems to want to be in front of the net. Edited January 7, 2014 by Commander Clueless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 @radoran Why not.....well, because it looked like the Flyers were just never going to put him in a spot to succeed, as you mentioned. Putting a skill player in a 3rd line role, paired with players that are not offensively geared players gets you what they inevitably got, a player with potential who never scored much. Some will say he never deserved the promotion, but if you want to get fair equal value for him, you pair him with players who will make him look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 @radoran Why not.....well, because it looked like the Flyers were just never going to put him in a spot to succeed, as you mentioned. Putting a skill player in a 3rd line role, paired with players that are not offensively geared players gets you what they inevitably got, a player with potential who never scored much. Some will say he never deserved the promotion, but if you want to get fair equal value for him, you pair him with players who will make him look good. 21-goals in his second year in the league - in the role you describe - is hardly "never scored much." You know who didn't score 20 in their second year in the league? Brayden Schenn, Jakub Voracek, Wayne Simmonds, Scott Hartnell, Sean Couturier... You know who did? Claude Giroux, Vincent Lecavalier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 The biggest thing I've been surprised with is how deceptively fast he is. Not surprising to me. He was the fastest skater in the Flyers skills competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 21-goals in his second year in the league - in the role you describe - is hardly "never scored much." You know who didn't score 20 in their second year in the league? Brayden Schenn, Jakub Voracek, Wayne Simmonds, Scott Hartnell, Sean Couturier... You know who did? Claude Giroux, Vincent Lecavalier. Valid point, he scored more than enough for a 2nd year player....I digress.....lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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