Flyers goaltending

[doom88]

OK, not to "jump on you" here - but the General Manager is responsible for player personnel moves. If Homer didn't want Bob to play up his exemption, he didn't have to let him.

And if that was a "fireable offense" then I do think we need to keep in mind who's "offense" it was (I've been a HUGE critic of Lavy's handling of goalies throughout). And that that same person who allowed Bob's exemption to expire KEPT the guy who made the "humongous mistake" until eight games into the season after that mistake before firing him.

It's easy to blame the guy that isn't here any more, but there is a HUGE reflection of the guy who is still here making personnel decisions.

That's not "negadelphia" - that's, again, fact.

That all said, I do think that Mason is going to be better long-term for the Flyers than Bobrovsky.

Lavy started Bob the extra game. I won't pretend to know the inner workings of the Flyers, but I'm fairly certain that fell at the HC and not GM (or maybe due to Clarke/Lukko/Snider desperation?) Homer definitely shares blame there. Then again, that was two seasons ago.

You are taking a little liberty with my wording of fireable offense to make your point, but it doesn't actually strengthen your argument.

I get it, you blindly hate Homer. Your highlighting of his errors are generally undeniable, but nothing he does will ever be good enough to give credit.

[OccamsRazor]

What could Homer have done this season instead that would satisfy you? Those marginal and incremental moves not only worked, but retained overall roster consistency. Dare I say, he did exactly what was needed and nothing more (in a good way).

 

 

Yes Matt Read a 24 goal scorer for only 900K. Mike Richards for Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds and a second-round draft( Stolarz)pick in 2012. 

 

Jeff Carter for Jake a 1st (Cooter) and 3rd (SHAYNE GOSTISBEHERE ). 

 

Not so bad a complete retool right there...

 

EDIT: Oh almost forgot Bob for a 2nd i think they traded to move up or something and a 4th (TAYLOR LEIER ) and a 4th in 2013 which they traded too.

Edited January 6, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[radoran]

I get it, you blindly hate Homer. Your highlighting of his errors are generally undeniable, but nothing he does will ever be good enough to give credit.

 

See, but that's just it. There's nothing "blind" about it. It's looking at the way things were handled and evaluating it. I do give credit - and that credit, as I said, is tempered by what else he has done.

 

And there's no "hate" involved - it is a rational examination of his performance over time.

 

If anything, you want to blindly credit Homer with no context for what he has done. And that's fine.

 

Just don't expect to not be questioned about it.

 

When people take issue with my evaluation of Homer, they don't disagree with what I point out he's done wrong. And you don't.

 

You think the good has outweighed the bad. And that's fine. I disagree - and respectfully so.

 

It's like taking the car to your mechanic, who has failed to fix fundamental problems and has, in fact, caused some major headaches, and saying "well, it passed inspection, the oil filter's new and the spark plugs got changed right."

 

Do I "hate" the mechanic? No. But I might stop taking my car there.

 

What could Homer have done this season instead that would satisfy you? Those marginal and incremental moves not only worked, but retained overall roster consistency. Dare I say, he did exactly what was needed and nothing more (in a good way).

 

Am I "satisfied" with this season? Somewhat. I think they have righted the ship and are clearly in the hunt for a playoff spot. But perhaps not retaining Laviolette would have been a prudent move? You yourself called Laviolette's actions "fireable" and it took more than another season to do it. And the guy who is actually in charge of player personnel moves is still here.

 

Having "righted the ship" off Sardinia, they didn't put the guy that grounded the Coastal Concordia back in the captain's chair based upon the idea that the ship is upright again.

 

To credit Homer with "roster stability" based solely on September-January of this season seems quite shortsighted. I'm not evaluating him based solely on a short period of time designed specifically to allow a "positive" evaluation. Has he done a "good job" so far this season? Sure. Does that erase the previous two, three, four, five seasons??

 

I am of the belief that his entire body of work is involved in the evaluation - and that's what I'm doing. "Roster stability" has been a major problem, rather than an asset, throughout his tenure.

 

Has that changed based solely upon his actions this season? We're halfway in with a long way to go.

 

Now, a question for you: why is it important that Homer be the guy in the GM chair for the Flyers?

[murraycraven]

To credit Homer with "roster stability" based solely on September-January of this season seems quite shortsighted. I'm not evaluating him based solely on a short period of time designed specifically to allow a "positive" evaluation. Has he done a "good job" so far this season? Sure. Does that erase the previous two, three, four, five seasons??

 

 

To me you have to look at the entire body of work.  Homer is the GM who let Lavy stay onboard for an entire offseason and during camp.  If the target was on his back why did Homer allow him to waste the entire camp?   Homer is as much at fault for the start of this season as anyone IMO.   What was the point?   Fire Lavy at the end of the season and let Berube implement his system at camp.   That is on Homer...   This Team would not have had to climb out of the trenches (in a terrible division) to where they are now.  

 

I am glad that he has shown some patience but there is a lot of hockey to be played.   What he does in the coming months should be interesting.  I think Homer has made some good moves but his body of work (entire body of work) has some glaring points of mismanagement.   

Edited January 6, 2014 by murraycraven

[doom88]

My original point was recent good things. That was the entire point. You're making it out to be much more. Your mechanic metaphor aligns with this, although we disagree with the controversial history.

Of course the guy has screwed up over his tenure, and some of his moves seemed to split fans into two factions. You brought older stuff in to say he sucks because of what he did. I never disagreed with his adventurous history as GM.

Homer has really screwed up before, and has executed really good moves. Part of that is Philly always needs to be active, and in turn, interesting. I am not going to debate his list of moves here when there is likely an existing thread already stating my opinion.

Again, convenient or not, all I meant was he has been a good GM of late. The last calendar year to put a finite time to it, if the current season isn't enough. He's made positive moves for the franchise. I'm not saying he was always good, great, or Bowman. Nor is he perfect, always right, or erased prior mistakes.

This forum is littered with posts condemning Homer's mistakes, yet very little to his credit when appropriate. I just wanted to point out recent positive strides. I see that is impossible. As of now, I'm done with this thread.

Actually, I should respond to that last question, almost missed it. It isn't important Homer is at the helm, but his recent actions don't warrant his dismissal either. Unless a prime candidate comes along, let the guy continue to improve. His scouting work is exemplary and he's on to something with this current lineup and staff.

[OccamsRazor]

What an unusual experience!

 

Hey i believe you're the winterhawks follower so i have a question i like Anton Cedarholm and would love him in the orange and black what is your take on his game, he is only 18 still and a couple more years of seasoning is ahead for him but he is a solid stay at home Dman with some offensive skills but i also noticed his glaring +14 which is 2nd on the team for defensemen....any how Flyers should target him which shouldn't cost a lot to get IMHO.

 

Also can't believe the Flyers took a goon instead of taking one of his teammates Oliver Bjorkstrand...who only is 2nd on the team in points with 

GP 38 GLS 27 AST 31 PTS 58 +17 PIM16....this is a bad move are you paying attention Rad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What say you?

Edited January 6, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[murraycraven]

Again, convenient or not, all I meant was he has been a good GM of late. The last calendar year to put a finite time to it, if the current season isn't enough. He's made positive moves for the franchise. I'm not saying he was always good, great, or Bowman. Nor is he perfect, always right, or erased prior mistakes

 

THIS!   That is where I am with Homer too... maybe I put more credence into his past but this is where I am with Homer.  He has done some good things and dare I say that maybe he is learning from prior mistakes?

[radoran]

THIS!   That is where I am with Homer too... maybe I put more credence into his past but this is where I am with Homer.  He has done some good things and dare I say that maybe he is learning from prior mistakes?

 

Right, but this is where I also am - to an extent.

 

The question is whether or not you believe that Homer is the best person to be in charge going forward.

 

I don't.

 

Has absolutely nothing to do with "hate." Has to do with evaluating his entire tenure on the job.

 

A guy who's been in the chair for seven years, telling me what a great job he's done over the past five months - by, primarily, not doing anything except correct two of his own mistakes (Lavy/Talbot) - doesn't terribly impress me.

 

Again, your mileage may vary.

 

Respectfully.

[murraycraven]

Right, but this is where I also am - to an extent.

 

The question is whether or not you believe that Homer is the best person to be in charge going forward.

 

I don't.

 

Has absolutely nothing to do with "hate." Has to do with evaluating his entire tenure on the job.

 

A guy who's been in the chair for seven years, telling me what a great job he's done over the past five months - by, primarily, not doing anything except correct two of his own mistakes (Lavy/Talbot) - doesn't terribly impress me.

 

Again, your mileage may vary.

 

Respectfully.

 

 

Rad,

 

I completely agree...   My two cents:  I don't think he is the best option going forward.   But then again we dont need a fresh perspective, right?

[Vincent05]

THIS!   That is where I am with Homer too... maybe I put more credence into his past but this is where I am with Homer.  He has done some good things and dare I say that maybe he is learning from prior mistakes?

Not to be negative but the 2 contracts he handed to Streit and Vinny, anyone here can do also. We are hoping that it won't hurt us in a few years. Homer has not learned from his mistakes, I wonder which 35+ FA he will give a 3 year contract to this offseason.

[Claude Monet]

Hey i believe you're the winterhawks follower so i have a question i like Anton Cedarholm and would love him in the orange and black what is your take on his game, he is only 18 still and a couple more years of seasoning is ahead for him but he is a solid stay at home Dman with some offensive skills but i also noticed his glaring +14 which is 2nd on the team for defensemen....any how Flyers should target him which shouldn't cost a lot to get IMHO.

Also can't believe the Flyers took a goon instead of taking one of his teammates Oliver Bjorkstrand...who only is 2nd on the team in points with

GP 38 GLS 27 AST 31 PTS 58 +17 PIM16....this is a bad move are you paying attention Rad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What say you?

[Claude Monet]

Hey Oc . Yeah I have been to two games and YES cederhollm is a great defensive dman. He stood out in a huge way at the last game.....when their top players were at world jrs.

He has great size, plays physical and is positionally sound. Played a mistake free game with little flash but was awesome in his own zone and on the pk. If he is undrafted then I would love for the flyers to sign him. Nice call on that OC.

Yeah borkys is an elite player on the top line. Sucks they passed on him for a goon.

I am going in two weeks when leier will be back and will post.

[flyercanuck]

So, no credit for restocking the farm at all? Got it. Negadelphia forever. Homer can do no good, and anything he does that might count is just luck.

 

 

OK, congratulations Paul Holmgren on having none of the top 50 ranked NHL prospects and getting the Flyers prospect pool all the way up to 30th in a league of...30 teams. I tip my hat to you sir. Congrats on firing the coach 3 games after you had him take the team through camp. Congrats on buying out Briere and Bryz who you signed to longterm contracts...then running out and signing 35 year old Streit and VLC (who had been bought out by his team). 

 

Honestly, what should we be crediting him for as far as the farm goes? Take a look at what other teams have before patting the guy on the back whose traded away so many draft picks it'd make your head spin.

[flyercanuck]

We're still complaining about Bob and his fluke season? Really?

 

I'm not complaining about Bob. I'm quite happy with Mason. Just pointing out acquiring him wasn't part of some great master plan...it was a flukey result of more of Homers flying by the seat of his pants. If Holmgren actually thought Mason was any good he would have traded Bob for him and never signed Bryz.

[murraycraven]

Not to be negative but the 2 contracts he handed to Streit and Vinny, anyone here can do also

 

Vince... I totally agree.  I was one of a very few that did not mind the Streit signing but in hindsight I am not looking forward to seeing these guys in the O&B a few year from now.   VLC can still produce but he simply can not stay in the lineup.   

[murraycraven]

...it was a flukey result of more of Homers flying by the seat of his pants

 

bingo!

[OccamsRazor]

If he is undrafted then I would love for the flyers to sign him.

 

No he isn't undrafted Canucks own his rights....but he was only a 5th rounder so he would be acquirable....i feel on the cheap....like right now i'd give them a porspect for him...i'd even part with Gus for him right now. 

[OccamsRazor]

Your highlighting of his errors are generally undeniable, but nothing he does will ever be good enough to give credit

 

He found and signed Heeter that is a good thing....or no we have to only post the bad ones????

 

Heeter named CCM/AHL Player of the Week

 

In 23 appearances this season, Heeter (13-10-0), leads the AHL with a .932 save percentage, is tied for the league lead with four shutouts and ranks second with a 2.03 goals-against average.

 

 

http://theahl.com/heeter-named-ccm-ahl-player-of-the-week-p189630

Edited January 7, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[OccamsRazor]

I'm not complaining about Bob.

 

Well how about this guy...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e36tNIKpB1w

 

instead of this guy....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhYkagpjHiA

 

 

goon it up!!!!!!

 

All we have to do is now call Mathers up....is Klotz around??????

Edited January 7, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[doom88]

He found and signed Heeter that is a good thing....or no we have to only post the bad ones????

Heeter named CCM/AHL Player of the Week

In 23 appearances this season, Heeter (13-10-0), leads the AHL with a .932 save percentage, is tied for the league lead with four shutouts and ranks second with a 2.03 goals-against average.

http://theahl.com/heeter-named-ccm-ahl-player-of-the-week-p189630

That comment was @radoran

[radoran]

He found and signed Heeter that is a good thing....or no we have to only post the bad ones????

 

I think the point is to post both. Just posting bad things is no better than just "giving credit" for good ones.

 

And there's plenty of "good ones" that have been posted all over this board.

 

But, again, the idea that Homer "found" Heeter but Snider "picked" Bryzgalov is a tremendous example of giving someone credit while absolving them of anything bad.

 

Homer's made some terrific FA signings - like Read, Heeter, Gustaffson, Raffl - and he has drafted strong as well. Let's hope he overcomes the past six years of his tenure and exhibits a dedication to the roster stability which doom88 notes he has shown in the last five months.