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Why is so hard to play with Crosby....


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It's hard for Crosby to play with others because he is used to playing with himself

@ruxpin   Crosby had 3 or 4 points against Norway in an 8-2 blowout in 2010. Against the US in 2 games, Russia and Slovakia (the real games) he had a goal.    Again, he's not the only one who isn't elevating his game from the Canadian forwards. I just expect more than average from him in 2 Olympic tournaments. The Orrs, Gretzkys and Lemieuxs were the best players for Canada when they played internationally. Crosbys legacy (golden goal not withstanding) is more in line with the Corey Perrys and M

Agree on all these points.  

yeah i was pissed when carcillo didn't make the squad  :blink:

 

Then we'd have all the Flye....I mean Canada fans complaining that all the penalties called on him are because of his reputation and the color of his jersey and that if he played for...say...Pitts...I mean Finland...he'd be getting away with a lot more. ;)

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 Offensively, Getzlaf and Tavares (despite his 0 points) have been Canadas best centers....they've been making things happen.

 

 NHL teams don't go hard against centers in playoffs?

 

 He seems to play just fine with Malkin and Letang when the opportunity arises.. Come on, the "best player in the world" doesn't know how to play with talent?

 

 And Crosby may be a setup guy, but he's also 2 goals behind Canadas top goal scorer in the NHL, so ya, he's a goal scorer.

 

So what is the standard, if Crosby can't put up points he's struggling and hard to play with, but if Getzlaf, Teows and Taveres don't its ok because "they're making things happen"? I see Crosby making things happen too, the constant is that none of them are putting up points.  The competition in this tournament is pretty good, I don't expect players to go around dominating here.

 

I really think he's struggling in this environment.  Typically the Pens are playing a grinding dump and chase game, even with Crosby's line. Realize, I'm not making excuses for him, if anything, I'm trying to point out the he IS struggling, whether it is because of ice surface, linemates, playing time, whatever, he needs to adjust his game.

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@nossagog

 

 From what I've seen, Tavares and Getzlaf have produced the most scoring opportunities. I get that it isn't Crosbys fault if he sets up Kunitz (or whoever) and he misses the net. And I don't expect him to "dominate". But I do expect him to be one of our best.

 

Remember, I want Canada to win, so I want Crosby to get points. So far, he's just looked like another player on Team Canada. I just don't think that's good enough out of him. If Canada wins, I don't care. But he (among others) needs to get going for Canada to win IMO. One of the forwards needs to take some pressure off the D scoring-wise. Shouldn't it be the best player?

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So what is the standard, if Crosby can't put up points he's struggling and hard to play with, but if Getzlaf, Teows and Taveres don't its ok because "they're making things happen"? I see Crosby making things happen too, the constant is that none of them are putting up points.  The competition in this tournament is pretty good, I don't expect players to go around dominating here.

 

I really think he's struggling in this environment.  Typically the Pens are playing a grinding dump and chase game, even with Crosby's line. Realize, I'm not making excuses for him, if anything, I'm trying to point out the he IS struggling, whether it is because of ice surface, linemates, playing time, whatever, he needs to adjust his game.

 

Getzlaf, Toews, and Tavares aren't "The Best Player in the World," either.

 

But I'm quite ok with him not changing anything up during the tournament.

 

Edited to remove unnecessary snark.

Edited by AJgoal
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Remember, I want Canada to win, so I want Crosby to get points. So far, he's just looked like another player on Team Canada. I just don't think that's good enough out of him. If Canada wins, I don't care. But he (among others) needs to get going for Canada to win IMO. One of the forwards needs to take some pressure off the D scoring-wise. Shouldn't it be the best player?

Actually, I think that's where Canada's depth is really key. Crosby doesn't *have* to provide offense for us to win. As long as his line is not a liability (and so far it has not been), it's ok because he's usually facing the top defensive pair, and often the top line.

So even if they neutralize Crosby, we have Toews, Getzlaf, and Tavares, which ain't too shabby ;)

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@nossagog

 

 From what I've seen, Tavares and Getzlaf have produced the most scoring opportunities. I get that it isn't Crosbys fault if he sets up Kunitz (or whoever) and he misses the net. And I don't expect him to "dominate". But I do expect him to be one of our best.

 

Remember, I want Canada to win, so I want Crosby to get points. So far, he's just looked like another player on Team Canada. I just don't think that's good enough out of him. If Canada wins, I don't care. But he (among others) needs to get going for Canada to win IMO. One of the forwards needs to take some pressure off the D scoring-wise. Shouldn't it be the best player?

 

 

You must be counting differently  ;)   I haven't seen every game, but what I have seen Crosby is playing like Crosby always plays.  I think Babcock is a fool for taking Kunitz away from him after one game.  You have got to give players a chance to adjust to the world stage, no matter who they are.  One game then you separate two guys who have played together successfully for seasons?   I don't see any other forwards on Canada's squad, Tavares, Getzlaf, Perry... anybody, really standing out either.  

 

Hell they scratched Sharp from skating on Toews' line and nobody is here ripping on Sharp.  He hasn't looked good at all.. but maybe we expected less of the Hawks players?  Yeah... I don't think so.  

 

Giroux on Crosby's wing?  I don't think he'd be any better than Kunitz.  You can't replace familiarity in such a short tournament.  Nobody will ever know.  I for one am glad they didn't find out.  I prefer them hating each other.  

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I guess it's just weird for me that Jeff Carter has stood out more for positive reasons than Crosby has.

Carter has been really really good so far. 

Probably Canada's best forward, can't  believe i'm typing that.

Doughty has been pretty great too.  

 

it must be nice to have your team's best player struggling and not even really need him, @brelic makes a good point about 87's line not being a liability and they aren't they just aren't what I was expecting.

Edited by mojo1917
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I guess it's just weird for me that Jeff Carter has stood out more for positive reasons than Crosby has.

Carter has been really really good so far. 

Probably Canada's best forward, can't  believe i'm typing that.

Doughty has been pretty great too.  

 

it must be nice to have your team's best player struggling and not even really need him, @brelic makes a good point about 87's line not being a liability and they aren't they just aren't what I was expecting.

 

That's actually happening a lot in this tournament...

 

Did anyone expect Phil Kessel to outshine Patrick Kane?  Howabout Datsyuk over OV and Malkin?

 

Lots of hockey left, too. 

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@B21

 

well i didn't expect Kessel to score more points than Patrick Kane. Though I have a theory that Kessel , JvR and Pavelski are benefiting from coming over the boards after Parise's line, They are flat out mauling people, not creating scoring chances but really hitting and forechecking well, coach Dan is timing that change pretty well to get maximum benefit. 

 

I am not one bit surprised by Datsuyk's play, he's the most skilled puck handler i've ever seen, and on the big sheet .... not surprised he's producing more than Ovechkin that's for damn sure, Malkin is playing well but I would pick Datsuyk over him everyday and twice on Sunday if I were starting a team, and that's not meaning any disrespect to Malkin, 

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@B21

 

well i didn't expect Kessel to score more points than Patrick Kane. Though I have a theory that Kessel , JvR and Pavelski are benefiting from coming over the boards after Parise's line, They are flat out mauling people, not creating scoring chances but really hitting and forechecking well, coach Dan is timing that change pretty well to get maximum benefit. 

 

I am not one bit surprised by Datsuyk's play, he's the most skilled puck handler i've ever seen, and on the big sheet .... not surprised he's producing more than Ovechkin that's for damn sure, Malkin is playing well but I would pick Datsuyk over him everyday and twice on Sunday if I were starting a team, and that's not meaning any disrespect to Malkin, 

 

 

I've watched a lot of the Russian games.  I don't think Datsyuk is outplaying Malkin at all.  Malkin has been pretty dominant out there, but the dividends haven't been there.  I really don't like Ovechkin, and maybe that's tainting my perspective a little, but honestly.. I think Malkin is being held back by the selfish prick.  Ovechkin has been out of position, missed the net, and generally lazy a LOT on the ice.  I've watched Malkin skate behind the net with the puck looking for an avenue to pass, but Ovechkin is so far out of position to receive a pass, Malkin might as well play on his own.  I also think Semin is back to his old self when he's with Ovenchicken.  Sitting back, not wanting to curb the self-proclaimed king's ego.  

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@Polaris922

Right , I even said I thought Malkin was playing well, I have always thought very highly of Datsuyk, as a player and person,

And like Derrick Jeter he is a guy I would pick first to build a team...I hate the Yankees.

I wonder how Malkin and the kid Nishukin (Dallas' draft pick) would do together ? Skill sets are similar both are big guys they could create mayhem.

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@Polaris922

Right , I even said I thought Malkin was playing well, I have always thought very highly of Datsuyk, as a player and person,

And like Derrick Jeter he is a guy I would pick first to build a team...I hate the Yankees.

I wonder how Malkin and the kid Nishukin (Dallas' draft pick) would do together ? Skill sets are similar both are big guys they could create mayhem.

Gonna be an interesting week with the games on tap...

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You must be counting differently   ;)   I haven't seen every game, but what I have seen Crosby is playing like Crosby always plays.  I think Babcock is a fool for taking Kunitz away from him after one game.  You have got to give players a chance to adjust to the world stage, no matter who they are.  One game then you separate two guys who have played together successfully for seasons?   I don't see any other forwards on Canada's squad, Tavares, Getzlaf, Perry... anybody, really standing out either.  

 

Hell they scratched Sharp from skating on Toews' line and nobody is here ripping on Sharp.  He hasn't looked good at all.. but maybe we expected less of the Hawks players?  Yeah... I don't think so.  

 

Giroux on Crosby's wing?  I don't think he'd be any better than Kunitz.  You can't replace familiarity in such a short tournament.  Nobody will ever know.  I for one am glad they didn't find out.  I prefer them hating each other.  

 

 

Sorry, I wasn't expecting "the best player in the world" to look average for 3 games, against the weakest opposition he's going to face. Sharp has never been in that discussion. Ever. Sharp is a borderline player on Team Canada, and is playing like one. Crosby is wearing the "C".

 

 Kunitz doesn't belong on the team, Crosbys caddy or not. He looks lost out there.

 

 Now I fully expect him to score the winning goal in the gold medal game.

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That's actually happening a lot in this tournament...

 

Did anyone expect Phil Kessel to outshine Patrick Kane?  Howabout Datsyuk over OV and Malkin?

 

Lots of hockey left, too. 

 

Kessels been having a great year.

 

 Datsyuk outperforming anyone is hardly shocking. I expect him to be better than Ovechkin. That guy is the biggest goal suck in the league.

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  Speaking of invisible, Rich Nash *owes* Canada a few points. A lot of people were upset by his being picked, and his play supports those fans. Like a lot of Team Canada forwards, he is way overdue!!

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Kessels been having a great year.

 

 Datsyuk outperforming anyone is hardly shocking. I expect him to be better than Ovechkin. That guy is the biggest goal suck in the league.

 

So then why is it such a big deal that some players on Team Canada are playing better than Crosby?

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Seriously though, to get this back on topic. Who knows. It's always been the case that some players elevate their game in big situations, some guys that you never expect. Crosby is a great player, but he's going to draw a lot of attention. While the expectation is for him to excel, it's possible that the defensive groups against him are pushing their game, knowing that they've got to shut him down for their team to have a chance. Do I think he should have more points? Yes. But maybe him not having them is less of a knock on him, and more of a testament to the guys across the ice from him.

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  Well, maybe that is it. Crosby is not in the class of Mario, Orr or Gretzky, and therefore can't just click naturally with anyone? With Sid, perhaps it takes a few weeks, where Mario and Orr were more natural virtuoso's and didn't need the extra time. Stats aside, I believe he's not on par with the 3 you mentioned, but maybe a talk for another day. 

 

 

  We all know about Sid's power base in his legs and lower torso, it's this physical aspect that sets him apart from many other stars. Perhaps he is over utilizing this aspect of his game, which results in more contact, but also takes away from his ability to stickhandle and create the natural space that other stars take for granted?

 

I tend to think along the same lines. I actually don't think Crosby has been as "bad" as some have been making him out to be. But he's not an Orr or a Gretzky or a Lemieux who can dominate games against elite competition. His strengths are his ability to play in tight spaces and deal with physical play and on big ice those things aren't as much of a factor. But regardless, he still gives 100% every shift, has a great hockey IQ, and is a good two way player who creates plenty of scoring chances. He's just not going to carry a team on his back at this level.

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