Loophole Lou finds a way...

[jammer2]

1. @hf101  You just know that Lou will pluck some type of franchise cornerstone with this "non-forfitted" pick.....I just know it. SUCKS!!

[B21]

@jammer2

 

I get what you are saying 21, but the Kovy deal just stunk from the get go. At least everyone knew Pronger's knee's would never see the end of the deal, it made it a little more respectable...lol. The Kovy deal was so very fishy. I kinda always figured he would leave when he was fairly young, bolt to the KHL....in fact, I'm betting Kovy and Lou had a back door deal that he could leave after a few years.

 

I think you just shot off your foot.

 

So doesn't knowing that Pronger isn't making it past 40 and still adding those bogus years make it a worse infraction?  As for a backdoor deal between LL and Kovalchuk? Maybe.  That's some think mud you're slinging though.  There could just have easily been a similar deal between Pronger and the Flyers. Remember, Holmgren didn't know the 35+ rule would fudge him over at the end of the day.

 

 

 

So...in summary....

A) Betting on broken down knees = acceptable

B) Bolting for the KHL at a young age, and getting the 17 year discount for the few years he was there....not acceptable.

 

The broken knees were was a much better bet (more likely to happen).  They were already breaking when he signed the deal.  No player of Kovalchuk's caliber had ever bolted for the KHL in his prime.

 

In other words, our form of cheating has been practiced before, and people are used to it...this new fangled cheating is just wrong.

 

Since the cap was put into place, how many contracts prior to the Pronger deal took a player to age 42?  How many added any number of $500,000 years at the end to bring the cap hit down?

 

Shea Weber's deal takes him to age 40.  A deal crafted by the Flyers. Significantly front loaded with 3 $1,000,000 seasons at the end.

 

OV's deal takes him to age 36.  Crosby to age 37. Malkin to age 38. Suter to 40 and Parise to 41.  $1,000,000 years at the end similar to the Weber deal. Zetterberg to 41. I'm sure there are others though I couldn't find any with years at the end that drop $500,000.

 

I'm not really saying it's wrong.  It was a loophole that several teams had exploited though not quite to the same extent of the Pronger deal (none of the players mentioned above were over 30 when they signed) and not quite to the extend of the Kovalchuk deal with the 5 $500,000 years at the end. Still, the Pronger and Kovalchuk deals accomplished about the same as far as the cap hit goes.

 

But again....oooonly the Devils were punished (too harshly i/m/h/o) because they submitted the first deal after the NHL took their pseudo-stand on the matter. 

 

Yet you're up in arms over a reduced punishment even though the Flyers got off scott free on a deal that was just a tad less shadier than the Kovalchuk deal.

[B21]

@B21 

 

 There was STRAIGHT UP NO WAY Pronger was going to make it to 40...and everyone and their Mother's knew it. Besides the fact he played a FULL 15 seasons before getting to Philly, one thing a lot of people overlook was the 146 career playoff games before getting to Philly. That is almost 2 full seasons of playoff wars, hard fought battles every one of them! That *had* to take a HUGE toll on his body. How many knee surgeries, back...arm, shoulder...he was a walking MASH unit for God's sake. By the time he got to Philly, his knee was basically bone on bone.

 

  Sure, they might have hoped for the best, but when he signed, I believed (along with everyone else) that we had a short 2-4 year window to try and win a Cup with him. It almost worked. No way in holy hell would the Flyers have made the finals in 2010 without Pronger, he was a ROCK in those playoffs, even playing hurt, he was amazing!!

 

I said this in my other response to you....

 

Doesn't knowing that Pronger isn't making it past 40 and still adding those bogus years make it a worse infraction?

 

You are literally admitted that the Flyers knew he wasn't going to play past 40 yet added two $500,000 years to save $2,000,000 in cap space per season.

 

Kovalchuk wasn't making it to 44 either or 42 for that matter.

 

Again - the intent of these deals was the same. The tactic was the same.  The cap savings was almost the same. The front loaded % was almost identical.

 

So stop acting like what the Devils did was soooooooooo much worse that the NHL reducing their penalty is some huge travesty when the Flyers were not penalized at all for doing the same thing.

 

You got away with it.  The Devils didn't.  And you're actually complaining that the Devils' reduced penalty is now not enough?

[jammer2]

@B21  I think a 30 year old Hossa signed a 12 year deal to take him to 42 I believe. I can see that deal coming close to being played out. He's a tough old bastard, he might just make it.

 

  I was kinda joking around with you, both the Pronger and Kovy deals were obviously circumvention attempts, I just hate the Devils and Lou (respect him, but loathe him at the same time if that is possible). In the end, they were pretty close and perhaps both should have been penalized. Maybe the Flyers were given a bit of a break cause the deal was deemed +35, so they had no real out except LTIR....where Kovy was young and in a different spot.

[B21]

@hf101

 

However you are only looking at the age factor.  You and I and everyone else knows there is NO WAY Kolvalchuk would play for less than 1M for 6 years in the NHL when the KHL  would be sending him $$$ - love letters.   Pronger on the other hand likely would have probably sat the last year or two in the press box aka (HAL GILL) finishing out his contract.

 

That's a fair point which I've agreed to.  I have said the Devils' deal was worse as it added 5 "bogus" years versus the 2 in the Pronger deal. Not worse enough to warrant punishment versus no punishment.

 

Generally in most discipline scenarios it is the one who does the offense the second time after being told not to is the one who is punished.  -- As I said earlier Lou knew exactly what he was doing.  He wanted to make the NHL set some rules, what he didn't expect though was the loss of his own draft pick.  One would have thought he would have chosen to forgo the pick the year his team made it to the Stanley cup finals and picked 29th.  BUT NO... he makes that pick as the has organization has plans to cry "poor Me" a couple of years later. 

 

 

This is is problem I have. You are taking issue with the NHL showing leniency with the Devils when the Flyers did the exact same thing and were not handed a similar punishment due to nothing other than the timing of the NHL taking a stand on the issue.

 

There was a lot of "Ha Ha! Look at the Devils!" when this originally went down even though the Flyers were no better.  Now there is an issue with a reduced penalty?  Just be happy the league didn't hit the Flyers as well and call it a day. 

[B21]

@jammer2

 

It's all good.   I'm just trying to keep the adrenaline going so I can stay awake for the 3rd period of Pens/Sharks.  2-1. 2nd intermission. ^_^

 

It would be nice to get a W with Zatkoff in net.

[jammer2]

@jammer2

 

It's all good.   I'm just trying to keep the adrenaline going so I can stay awake for the 3rd period of Pens/Sharks.  2-1. 2nd intermission. ^_^

 

It would be nice to get a W with Zatkoff in net.

 

  Thanks for the top, I'll switch over....what line is Stepneack (sp...lol) playing on right now?

[J0e Th0rnton]

Several teams got away with similarly structured contracts at the time. The initial Kovalchuk contract just pushed it to a point where the league had to put their foot down, and the Devils were made an example of.

I'm surprised the league reduced the penalty, but considering it's Lou, I probably shouldn't be. He's a sneaky old bastard.

Hey old friend

Good to see you!

 

Hehehe, yeah Lou was a tricky devil

[jammer2]

@MadDevil  Welcome, we could use a knowledgeable Devils poster, so hopefully you stick around. I watched Adam Henrique's junior career with my hometown Windsor Spitfires....I'm a HUGE fan!

[Polaris922]

I suppose the good thing is they didn't eliminate it entirely.  And I think that's more in deference to the struggles the Debbies have financially than anything else.  Still having to pick 30th rather than where they really belong is a kick in the crotch too.  And I see @B21 's points as well...  the Pronger contract was a bit of a circumvention too, and there was no penalty there.  He's not even counting towards your salary cap really since you get to replace it right away.  *shrugs*  

[MadDevil]

I think it has more to do with the league doing a favor for the new owners. They were willing to take on the debt the Devils had, so Gary turned around and did them a solid by reducing the penalty levied against them under the previous owner (who was the main reason they gave Kovy that contract to begin with).