OccamsRazor Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) The Flyers simply have no equivalent of a Hossa, Iginla, Lucic, Toews. They don't score as much and they are much more reliant on the PP. And another interesting stat did it all with the least hits of all teams over the season just so people know it's not all about hitting. Hey Hitch Hawks also lead in blocked shot during the playoffs!!!! Edited April 28, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) What I am saying is that there are guys who "score" and then there are "scorers." For example, Matt Read "scores" the odd goal here and there, he is not a "goal scorer". VLC at this point in his career doesn't make his own space or create his own plays. He "scores" on the second or third rebound as the sixth guy in a scrum in empty net time. Brayden Schenn is scaring no one as a "goal scorer" despite his 20 goals. The Flyers aren't scoring because they don't have the horses at this point. They are a one line team that relies on Giroux to set the tone and light the path, and the Rangers have a strategy that is simply beating them. I could see Schenn becoming a "goal scorer" or Simmonds, Voracek, etc. They're just not there yet. This! Let's put it this way... Yes, they have goal scorers but they do not have the talent of a Player that can consistently finish. This Team is in need of a 30+ goal scorer that can finish. The offense is very sporadic and while it is great to have depth no one on this Team is giving the defense nightmares (aside from G and possibly Jake) when they have the puck. A pure shooter would do this Team wonders... When is the last time we had a goal scorer hit 35+ goals? Hartnell in 2012-13 but that was lightning in a bottle. Aside from that I think you have to go back to 2009-10 where Carter and Richards eclipsed 30. 2008-09 you had a Carter, Richards, gagne and Hartnell w/ 30+ and I think Carter had above 45 goals... Jake was on pace during the lockout season I guess. Looking back at the past Cups in recent memory each Team had 30+ goal scorers w/ the exception of NJ (credit Marty and the trap) & LA (credit Quick) : 2000: Red Wings: Yzerman (35) and Shannahan (41)2001: Avs: Sakic (54) and Hejduk (41)2002: Red Wings: Shannahan (37), Fedorov (31) and Hull (30)2003: Devils: NONE2004: Tampa: St Louis (38) and VLC (32)2006: Carolina: Staal (45), Brindy (31), Cole (30) and Williams (31)2007: Ducks: Selanne (48)2008: Red Wings: Zetterberg (43) and Datsyuk (31)2009: Pens: Malkin (35) and Crosby (33)2010: Hawks: Kane (30)2011: Bruins: Lucic (30)2012: LA: NONE2013: Kane and Toews (23) in shortened season Put a top scoring threat on a line w/ Jake and G and you will get production. Hartnell is not going to cut it on the top line. Now, how you get one of those Players is a whole other argument. Edited April 28, 2014 by murraycraven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Quigster Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 The Flyer's are super soft,too small and not enough North American Players! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Put a top scoring threat on a line w/ Jake and G and you will get production. Yes i don't want to pile on Hartnell when he is struggling so just to ease the burden on him and G at the same time just move him down. I mean just watch how far he was behind the play yesterday on that score i can't remember which one it was the first or second one gave up....that was horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Yes i don't want to pile on Hartnell when he is struggling so just to ease the burden on him and G at the same time just move him down. I mean just watch how far he was behind the play yesterday on that score i can't remember which one it was the first or second one gave up....that was horrible. the one where he broke his stick? He was waaaay behind and slow getting to the bench. Read was not exactly busting it down the ice on that change either.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 The Flyer's are super soft,too small and not enough North American Players! This folks is class A analysis :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 the one where he broke his stick? He was waaaay behind and slow getting to the bench. Read was not exactly busting it down the ice on that change either.... Yes i'm trying to move on like the players say. There really are many at fault it's not one person...but can't we eliminate the obvious ones....the ones Steve Wonder could see...Hartnell is one??? Vinny really is another IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Yes i'm trying to move on like the players say. There really are many at fault it's not one person...but can't we eliminate the obvious ones....the ones Steve Wonder could see...Hartnell is one??? Vinny really is another IMHO. I dont get, nor will I ever get why we signed VLC... makes no sense whatsoever. Might as well get used to it b/c I am not sure anyone in their right mind would take the contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I dont get, nor will I ever get why we signed VLC... Yes i would just have preferred to have gone signed Jagr for one more year at least he can keep up with the play...than Vinny for 5! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Yes i would just have preferred to have gone signed Jagr for one more year at least he can keep up with the play...than Vinny for 5! Abso-freaking-lutely! 4 more goals and 4 less years! Edited April 28, 2014 by murraycraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I dont get, nor will I ever get why we signed VLC... Homer has a signed VLC trading card from 2004? He got a good endorsement from Tampa's then-Director of Player Personnel Bill Barber? He saw a guy who's goal totals have dropped by a third over the past five seasons as the depth scorer they needed? He's looking at a guy who hasn't played a full season since 09-10 as a model of durability? I'm spitballing here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Homer has a signed VLC trading card from 2004? He got a good endorsement from Tampa's then-Director of Player Personnel Bill Barber? He saw a guy who's goal totals have dropped by a third over the past five seasons as the depth scorer they needed? He's looking at a guy who hasn't played a full season since 09-10 as a model of durability? I'm spitballing here! rubbing salt into the wounds, Rad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 @radoran@canoli@murreycraven I get that our players may not be your prototypical proven, top-echelon 30- 40-goal scorers. Well, Giroux belongs in that category, and VLC once did, but other than that, the Flyers are not stacked with perennial offensive thread. But in the playoffs, you don't always need to have a top offensive talent to win. I asked before: how many of these top-offensive horses did the Devils of the 2000's have? They had Elias...maybe Petr Sykora. And you know you are reaching when you have to resort to Petr Sykora as your top offensive weapon. What else? They won with superb goaltending and impeccable, relentless team defense. The Flyers of the past years, by contrast, had the likes of Lindros, LeClair, Primeau, Recchi, Roenick, Gagne, Amonte, and the list goes on and on and on.... How far did it get them? They could not beat the Florida Panthers whose top scorers were Johan Garpenlov, Dave Lowry and Stu Barnes for crying out loud... MC, your list includes the top scorers on the Cup winning teams. OK, I am not talking Cup winning as nobody in his right mind would argue the Flyers are Cup contenders. I am looking at a much closer object: getting past the first round. And my contention is while the Flyers may not have what Rad refers to (consistent, proven expereinced scorers), they still have enough scoring to be able to get past the first round. Call it the lack of expereince or chalk it up to the way teh Rangers figured out how to beat them. But that des not change the fact that if looking at this from a pure cause-result angle, the Flyers are not grossly inferior to the Rangers. Defense - yes, I will give it to you. The Flyers' defense is just not that great. But the goaltending and offense... sorry, I am just not buying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Abso-freaking-lutely! 4 more goals and 4 less years!Jagr: 82 games played 24 goals 43 assists 67 points +16 19 minutes a game....for 2 million!!!!!!!!!!!! OH MY GOD I THINK I'M GONNA BE SICK!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 @ OR.... I just looked at that too... horrible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 And my contention is while the Flyers may not have what Rad refers to (consistent, proven expereinced scorers), they still have enough scoring to be able to get past the first round. Call it the lack of expereince or chalk it up to the way teh Rangers figured out how to beat them. But that des not change the fact that if looking at this from a pure cause-result angle, the Flyers are not grossly inferior to the Rangers. Defense - yes, I will give it to you. The Flyers' defense is just not that great. But the goaltending and offense... sorry, I am just not buying it. I completely agree they have the guns to get out of the first. I've said they would likely beat the Pens had they drawn them and I would still think they have a good shot if they manage to advance. And I completely agree that "defense wins championships" - always has, always will. All I'm saying is that its not a surprise that their "secondary scoring" isn't putting up the numbers required. Simmonds shocked most people by potting 29 (more than 50% on the PP) and after Giroux they drop off considerably. Voracek is their top playoff goal scorer with two and he had 23. Guys step up in the playoffs. Flyers need a guy to do that. None has, so far. Still can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) @radoran@canoli@murreycraven I get that our players may not be your prototypical proven, top-echelon 30- 40-goal scorers. Well, Giroux belongs in that category, and VLC once did, but other than that, the Flyers are not stacked with perennial offensive thread. But in the playoffs, you don't always need to have a top offensive talent to win. I asked before: how many of these top-offensive horses did the Devils of the 2000's have? They had Elias...maybe Petr Sykora. And you know you are reaching when you have to resort to Petr Sykora as your top offensive weapon. What else? They won with superb goaltending and impeccable, relentless team defense. The Flyers of the past years, by contrast, had the likes of Lindros, LeClair, Primeau, Recchi, Roenick, Gagne, Amonte, and the list goes on and on and on.... How far did it get them? They could not beat the Florida Panthers whose top scorers were Johan Garpenlov, Dave Lowry and Stu Barnes for crying out loud... MC, your list includes the top scorers on the Cup winning teams. OK, I am not talking Cup winning as nobody in his right mind would argue the Flyers are Cup contenders. I am looking at a much closer object: getting past the first round. And my contention is while the Flyers may not have what Rad refers to (consistent, proven expereinced scorers), they still have enough scoring to be able to get past the first round. Call it the lack of expereince or chalk it up to the way teh Rangers figured out how to beat them. But that des not change the fact that if looking at this from a pure cause-result angle, the Flyers are not grossly inferior to the Rangers. Defense - yes, I will give it to you. The Flyers' defense is just not that great. But the goaltending and offense... sorry, I am just not buying it. all fair points MD and good post by the way... Like I said before I dont think the Flyers are that far below the Rangers. Frankly, I dont think the Rangers are all that great but for my money I will take Lundquist over Mason any day of the week. The Rangers have a comparable offense to the Flyers but there is also depth there and the likes of MSL, Nash, Richards, Stepan and Moore are coming through for them - they are stepping up and no one on the Flyers has yet to do so. Our offense is predicatble and literally looks lost. Looking at goal production they have 12 players that have scored a goal this series and Nash has 4 assists. Looking at the top tier talent I think an argument can be made that the Rangers have a better offensive group. I dont think it is head and shoulders above but the offense is certainly outpacing our group in this series. I can see where the Flyers and Rangers are evenly matched on paper when considering the offense, but again, goaltending and defense wins series IMO. I think if you asked every NHL Coach who they rather have in net: Mason or Lundquist. I think it would be a resounding vote for Lundquist in nearly every case. Edited April 28, 2014 by murraycraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Jagr: 82 games played 24 goals 43 assists 67 points +16 19 minutes a game....for 2 million!!!!!!!!!!!! OH MY GOD I THINK I'M GONNA BE SICK!!!! one word ---> mismanagement. enough said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 one word ---> mismanagement. enough said B-b-b-b-but we had an offer in for Parise and Suter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 enough said one other thing ----------> Fire Homer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Greetings: I concur with the article. Notice it isn't authored by Carchidi or Seravalli, who might get burned for this level of candor. Sorry folks, but I do see the Rangers as a more talented team. And I am deeply concerned with the DNA of this team: Does the GM and his staff continue to put physical strength and toughness ahead of speed and skill? I've said it before and I will say it again--our poor performance in the shootout may give an indicator of what this team is made of--good to above-average mucker-grinders. If their "balance" was so good, why aren't some folks scoring to make up for Giroux who is being hacked and checked constantly? The D is obviously in need of a remake. Goaltending--I think we will still have questions coming out of the season. Mason may be an upgrade. But beyond him, then what? Best, Howie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 Parise would've been a great addition and a major "coup" had Homer pulled it off. But the word was - IIRC - that he just didn't want to play in Philly. In fact now that I recall, wasn't it talked around that neither one (parise / suter) wanted to go to Philly? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Clueless Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Am I only one thinking that the Rangers are a little overrated? I mean, between McDonagh, Girardi, and Staal they have a killer defense and a great goalie in Lundqvist but....I'm seeing some weaknesses. Unfortunately, this may be a bad matchup for the Flyers. Talent-wise, I think Philly should take this. It ain't over 'til it's over, I always used to say. But then it was over, so I stopped saying that. But this ain't over! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 I've said it before and I will say it again--our poor performance in the shootout may give an indicator of what this team is made of--good to above-average mucker-grinders. except we sucked in the SSO (that's stupid shootout for you playing at home) when we had Richards and Carter. In fact we're the worst SSO team in its sorry, stupid history. Still - an interesting take on the roster Howie. I wish I had an answer for you, why nobody has stepped up. It's been pointed out that "too many" Flyers' goals are PP goals. So there's that. Then again the PP has pretty much stunk too. But as Commander just said "this ain't over." Yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Sir Canoli: You and I have been posting for years. And we have witnessed a great deal. I would love us to come back and take this series. It would be a tribute to grit. But I am looking long-term, and what do I see? 1) I thought that 2008 was the beginning of a new era. I thought we had adjusted to the New NHL after the 06-07 debacle. Then we started to play poorly.2) We had our fluke run for the Cup. But I thought, "well, the Calder Nucleus is going to be built on." And what next..it is blown apart. So, here we have a new run...after a terrible start. But....we stumble to the finish in the regular season and show inconsistency in this series. Is this the start of a new era under Berube? Or is this another foray into the upper-middle ranks that will have no carry-over to the next season? From my vantage--it will be Thanksgiving of 2014 before we know the answer. But deep down, all the dumb penalties and the lousy power play coupled with the inept offense of this series reinforces my belief that our "balanced" scoring is not necessarily potent scoring. We shall see! Peace,Howie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.