How should the a Wings use their remaining buyout?

[SpikeDDS]

Who would you buyout? Franzen? Howard? Weiss?

[Commander Clueless]

With extreme prejudice.

 

Can they even buy out Weiss? Isn't his a post-lockout contract? Or am I out to lunch?

 

 

I don't think the Wings buy out Franzen or Howard, unless an upgrade came their way via free agency (or Mrazek goes crazy). Both are still solid players, no?

[yave1964]

Franzen actually fills a need, and his contract while the length is an issue the actual cap hit is not that bad.

Howard, I don't know, I have thought that one over, part of me would like to see them do it, resign the monster as a solid veteran backup and give Mrazak a shot. We could use the money saved to sign a power play running d-man (Boyle?).

Weiss, he has essentially missed the last two seasons, having only appeared in a handful of games his final season in Florida. His skill level appears to have eroded. If we buy him out we could resign Legwand for cheaper than Weiss and then use the remaining money to fill another need.

To me Franzen seems out of the question. He drives me nuts but we need goal scoring off the wing and better or worse he is what he is, a streaky hot and cold goal scorer.

Between Howard and Weiss, to me it is a coin toss. The odds are the club will not use either buyout, Howard is a lifelong Wing who has been cared for and nurtured for years. His skill level has slipped and my guess is it will continue to. I do not see him as an Osgood, someone good enough to win a cup with a great team, I think Howard is a step or two below, somewhere between Ozzie and Manny Legace. He is good enough to make the playoffs, likely will be for several years but that is about his top shelf.

Weiss I thought was a solid signing in the offseason, of the centers available, I was hoping for him but after 2 straight years of nothing he has to be strongly considered. But to do so means admitting a 25 million dollar mistake less than 12 months after signing him. This is hard for any GM to do let alone the conservative Holland.

Weiss. Yes, sadly, I would say Weiss. I wish we had both and an aggressive organization and I would say both Howard and Weiss.

[Commander Clueless]

@yave1964

 

Oh right, Weiss has been around two years hasn't he? Then yeah, Weiss I'd say.

 

However, if Howard has really been that disappointing for you guys, there are a few goalies hitting free agency this year. Ryan Miller might be available.

 

I have to think Howard has a bit of trade value left in him, though.

[yave1964]

@yave1964

 

Oh right, Weiss has been around two years hasn't he? Then yeah, Weiss I'd say.

 

However, if Howard has really been that disappointing for you guys, there are a few goalies hitting free agency this year. Ryan Miller might be available.

 

I have to think Howard has a bit of trade value left in him, though.

You are right, Weiss signed last July, post lockout so his contract does not qualify. Same as you guys with Clarkson. Damn.

I did not give any thought to Miller, he would look good between the pipes, Howard does have value, maybe to Calgary or Winnipeg. Ohhhh how about sign Miller, trade Howard to the Jets for Evander Kane. There. The Jets are out of love with Kane and desperately need a goalie. A perfect deal for both. Thanks Commander, lets go that route.

[Commander Clueless]

You are right, Weiss signed last July, post lockout so his contract does not qualify. Same as you guys with Clarkson. Damn.

I did not give any thought to Miller, he would look good between the pipes, Howard does have value, maybe to Calgary or Winnipeg. Ohhhh how about sign Miller, trade Howard to the Jets for Evander Kane. There. The Jets are out of love with Kane and desperately need a goalie. A perfect deal for both. Thanks Commander, lets go that route.

 

Bummer, I was afraid of that. You guys are most likely stuck with Weiss then and hope he rebounds. It's too bad for the guy that he has fallen off so badly. I actually wanted him on the Leafs.

 

If St. Louis opts not to re-sign Miller, Detroit could be a very real possibility if Holland is disillusioned with Jimmy H. I think in your proposed deal, though, the Jets would want more than just Howard.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Commander Clueless

[yave1964]

Commander Clueless, on 01 May 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

Bummer, I was afraid of that. You guys are most likely stuck with Weiss then and hope he rebounds. It's too bad for the guy that he has fallen off so badly. I actually wanted him on the Leafs.

If St. Louis opts not to re-sign Miller, Detroit could be a very real possibility if Holland is disillusioned with Jimmy H. I think in your proposed deal, though, the Jets would want more than just Howard.

Kane is in serious disfavor with the Jets. We do have prospects up the wazoo to sweeten the deal. Frankly it would be good for both clubs.

[SpikeDDS]

You are right, Weiss signed last July, post lockout so his contract does not qualify. Same as you guys with Clarkson. Damn.I did not give any thought to Miller, he would look good between the pipes, Howard does have value, maybe to Calgary or Winnipeg. Ohhhh how about sign Miller, trade Howard to the Jets for Evander Kane. There. The Jets are out of love with Kane and desperately need a goalie. A perfect deal for both. Thanks Commander, lets go that route.

Wow. That's truly some outside-the-box thinking, yave. I like it.

@Commander Clueless, thanks for the reminder about Weiss. Yeah, I guess we are stuck with him.

[flyercanuck]

You guys could trade for Hartnell, he's got 5 years left at a 4.75 hit, and buy him out!

[Haliax]

All indications are that they will use the final buyout on Tootoo, who was a healthy scratch even in Grand Rapids. Not huge savings here, but I don't think that they will give up on Franzen or Howard.

[yave1964]

All indications are that they will use the final buyout on Tootoo, who was a healthy scratch even in Grand Rapids. Not huge savings here, but I don't think that they will give up on Franzen or Howard.

Tootoo was a horrible signing. The quicker forgotten the better. 

[Haliax]

Tootoo was a horrible signing. The quicker forgotten the better. 

Yup. That, along with signing Samuelsson, made for a very bad day. 

[Old School Hockey]

Tootoo was a horrible signing. The quicker forgotten the better.

Why use it such a nothing contract?

[Haliax]

Why use it such a nothing contract?

I'd say it's because they have given up on Tootoo but they still see Howard and Franzen as long term contributors to the team. Also, as easy as it seems to us for the team to buy out these long term contracts, they are still forking out the cash, it isn't free. They made similar buyouts with McCarty in 2005 and Colaiacovo last year.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Haliax

[Old School Hockey]

I'd say it's because they have given up on Tootoo but they still see Howard and Franzen as long term contributors to the team. Also, as easy as it seems to us for the team to buy out these long term contracts, they are still forking out the cash, it isn't free.

I hear you. But there's much worse contracts on the current team.

[Haliax]

I hear you. But there's much worse contracts on the current team.

I partly agree. Howard and Franzen have been under performing, but Tootoo is just pure wasted space. I also think that most of Franzen's issues are with coaching rather than talent, and Howards are more to do with defensive support.

 

Tootoo just sucks.

[Old School Hockey]

I partly agree. Howard and Franzen have been under performing, but Tootoo is just pure wasted space. I also think that most of Franzen's issues are with coaching rather than talent, and Howards are more to do with defensive support.

 

Tootoo just sucks.

Hossa I mean Franzen has been a huge disappointment.

Howard is just not the guy. Cut the losses and move on.

[Haliax]

Hossa. 

[J0e Th0rnton]

All indications are that they will use the final buyout on Tootoo, who was a healthy scratch even in Grand Rapids. Not huge savings here, but I don't think that they will give up on Franzen or Howard.

Hey man. How ya been?

[Haliax]

Hey man. How ya been?

Pretty good, busy with work, how about yourself?

[jammer2]

  I honestly think we have seen the best Howard that we could possibly see. He's not a Stanley Cup caliber goalie. I'm a staunchy old school, build from the crease on out kinda guy. The Wings have the talent to contend for the cup right now, and will only get better. It would be a shame to waste years where the window appears open committing to Howard. I don't know if Marazek is the answer, but he's more athletic than Howard and is quicker. It would be a ballsey move, something I don't think Holland would do....but getting out from under Howard's long term deal is the key to the Wings winning before Zetts and Datsuyk hang them up.

 

 The Jets deal is interesting, but if the goalie market is over saturated this summer as some project, why would the Jets not just spend a 2nd or 3rd rounder on Nemi (a value Joe Thornton was throwing around...I think he should be worth a tad more).....I'd much rather do that than take on Howard as the primary return on Kane.....if you start talking Tatar or Sheahan, well, the deal starts looking better from a Jets perspective. Bottom line, Howard is not really an upgrade on Pavlec, so I don't see the Jet's biting.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Pretty good, busy with work, how about yourself?

Great man. Been a ride. The twins are almost 2. Work has been busy as always at the start of the summer.

 

Of course there is the historic Sharks dropping a 3-0 souring things haha

 

  I honestly think we have seen the best Howard that we could possibly see. He's not a Stanley Cup caliber goalie. I'm a staunchy old school, build from the crease on out kinda guy. The Wings have the talent to contend for the cup right now, and will only get better. It would be a shame to waste years where the window appears open committing to Howard. I don't know if Marazek is the answer, but he's more athletic than Howard and is quicker. It would be a ballsey move, something I don't think Holland would do....but getting out from under Howard's long term deal is the key to the Wings winning before Zetts and Datsuyk hang them up.

 

 The Jets deal is interesting, but if the goalie market is over saturated this summer as some project, why would the Jets not just spend a 2nd or 3rd rounder on Nemi (a value Joe Thornton was throwing around...I think he should be worth a tad more).....I'd much rather do that than take on Howard as the primary return on Kane.....if you start talking Tatar or Sheahan, well, the deal starts looking better from a Jets perspective. Bottom line, Howard is not really an upgrade on Pavlec, so I don't see the Jet's biting.

I think Niemi after such a bad season and crap the bed playoffs, with only 1 year left and a goalie UFA pool that is saturated is worth no more than likely a 2nd rounder at most, 3rd more likely. With youth and 1st round picks and entry level contracts becoming the new most valuable commodity under the cap.

[jammer2]

I think Niemi after such a bad season and crap the bed playoffs, with only 1 year left and a goalie UFA pool that is saturated is worth no more than likely a 2nd rounder at most, 3rd more likely. With youth and 1st round picks and entry level contracts becoming the new most valuable commodity under the cap.

 

 I think the top 10 in GGA and SV% the past few years have to count for something. He needs a team with a strong set of d-men that employs an overall defense first kinda system. Phoenix would be a perfect fit, and I think they would pay more than a 3rd to secure his services. Don't know if Smith is the right man for the job, he was horrible in long stretches last year.

[Vanflyer]

He's not a Stanley Cup caliber goalie.

 

Osgood was??? Just saying. 

[yave1964]

Osgood was??? Just saying. 

Osgood again, lol.

  It is true, sometimes a team makes the Stanley Cup finals (2010 Flyers, 2009 Wings) and sometimes an average goalie is carried by a team (Osgood again, Crawford in Chicago) to a cup win even. But more often than not it is the other way around. Nobody can convince me the starting 18 for the Rangers were better than the Flyers, the Penguins or the Canadiens, but Lundqvist got them there and carried his team. Personally, I always bet on the team with the better goalie in the playoffs but it does happen. Just ask Boucher and Leighton.