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What becomes of Holmgren?


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Well, I do think there is a legit concern about how Homer has handled a few situations - like Crater, Richards and Gagne - in terms of how the team may be viewed from outside. Giving guys long term deals with NTCs and then moving them after telling them he wouldn't (as Crater certainly alleged) or the Gagne allegation of being "strung along" may give some pause.

That said, they do have a committed owner and a winning tradition and a legendary history and six zeroes following a crooked number can certainly change minds.

Money definitely talks! Pay me!

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who is a UFA at the end of this year... instant cap space, should they decline to bring him back.

the NHL will soon be like the NBA in that expiring contracts will start to have value, not as much as a player but value none the less.

Especially in Philly, where the Flyers are seemingly always at the contract count cap.

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Okay!

Personally I'm very glad they shipped Mad Max out for bonehead Downie. They got rid of a motivator, heart and soul guy who kills penalties and accepts a 3rd/4th line center role and excels at it. I'm reading a LOT of speculation that he was unhappy or pouting or whatever, but saw a guy playing at the same level as everyone else.

In doing so they brought in a guy who can't do much but sit in the penalty box, and at a higher cap hit. I'm fine with it. ;)

Damn but that's the truth.

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I think it hurt you guys this year though. I sincerely believe a guy like Talbot could've been enough to put you over the rangers this past series. You were 1 game away.

We'll never know. And as you said its free space next season.

 

I'll tell you what.   I would take Talbot's comparatively little salary against VLC's a dozen times in 10 chances.

 

Downie, VLC, and Hall vs. Talbot?   I'll take Talbot.   And the cap is going up, so someone really needs to explain to me how his $1.75M salary cap hit was such a damn big deal we had to trade him for the Queen of Misfit Shitheads

 

The party line has been "we got rid of his salary for a guy whose contract was ending."   WHAT?    Under that theory, Flyer (mis)-management consciously chose to piss away this season with a reject pile never was because they could "save"  roughly $100K more than what they're paying Bryzgalov to NOT play for them.   Again....what???

 

We're not talking a $3 or $4M contract per year they were shedding here.   $1.75M cap hit.  For a 3rd/4th line center who provides veteran leadership and kills penalties.  Okay.

 

So then we have the "he was sulking."   WHAT THE FLIPPING HELL WAS DOWNIE DOING JUST ABOUT EVERY TIME HE STEPPED ON THE FRICKEN ICE?   He wasn't winning Miss Congeniality.  I'll take someone sulking vs. someone skating around like an imbecile and passing to ANYONE not wearing orange and black. 

 

Maybe Talbot was sulking because he signed with the Flyers when the team had Jagr and Carle and looked like a team that wanted to compete and he went through an idiotic offseason that brought us Mark freaking Streit, VLC (sucks), and no real upgrade on the blueline.  Then a preseason and camp with absolutely no effort or even pretense of effort from either the head coach or the roster, and a regular season that began the same way.

 

Gee, I left the Penguins for the Flyers because I thought both were attempting to compete but Philly offered me slightly more and suddenly I'm stuck on the fricken Florida Panthers.   Professional or not, maybe I'd sulk too!

 

It wasn't just his role.  It was that he was sold a swamp land packaged as a resort.

 

Good for him moving on to Colorado.  It's over and done--hopefully that is the case and dumb ass #1 (Holmgren) or dumb ass #2 (Snider) don't offer Downme a contract.   But the party line reasoning about Downie and Talbot is nonsense from where I sit.

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I think it hurt you guys this year though. I sincerely believe a guy like Talbot could've been enough to put you over the rangers this past series. You were 1 game away.

 

I wholeheartedly disagree, Polaris. If there is ever the case to be made for when the score does not reflect what happened on the ice, this series was it. If it wasn't for Emery and Mason, the Flyers would've been swept. I am convinced in that. This is how lopsided this entire series was.  There was hardly *anything* the Flyers did right in the entire series.  From the Flyers’ fans perspective, this series was painful to watch.  And believe me, Talbot was not going to swing the scales in the series where the Flyers were outplayed in every single area of the game.

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I wholeheartedly disagree, Polaris. If there is ever the case to be made for when the score does not reflect what happened on the ice, this series was it. If it wasn't for Emery and Mason, the Flyers would've been swept. I am convinced in that. This is how lopsided this entire series was. There was hardly *anything* the Flyers did right in the entire series. From the Flyers’ fans perspective, this series was painful to watch. And believe me, Talbot was not going to swing the scales in the series where the Flyers were outplayed in every single area of the game.

Perhaps. But the fact remains that we lost by a 2-1 score in game seven. We didn't need a difference in the series. Ultimately we needed either one more goal or to give up one less goal in game seven.

I think it's a tremendous leap into what ifs but I suppose it could have been different.

The other what if leap could be to wonder if Talbot gets us to finish with three more points or whatever and get home ice for game seven.

Hopefully, you understand my repeated "what ifs" reveals my skepticism, but I suppose it's possible.

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Then again, I struggle with the more points scenario since there were a stretch of games that we got points where the Coots, Read, Downie line was the only one doing a damn thing.

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@ruxpin

Wow... Well said!

@Mad Dog

That's my point though. Mason kept you in every game. What might have been with a Talbot kind of guy pushing teammates to excel? A guy giving everything makes others do the same. I watched Max for years as a 4th line center. Few men are out there that stepped up for the playoffs like him. He was a leader and a motivator even with superstars in the lineup in front of him. Might have made a difference.

Nothing to be done for it, just an observation.

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I'll tell you what. I would take Talbot's comparatively little salary against VLC's a dozen times in 10 chances.

Downie, VLC, and Hall vs. Talbot? I'll take Talbot. And the cap is going up, so someone really needs to explain to me how his $1.75M salary cap hit was such a damn big deal we had to trade him for the Queen of Misfit Shitheads

The party line has been "we got rid of his salary for a guy whose contract was ending." WHAT? Under that theory, Flyer (mis)-management consciously chose to piss away this season with a reject pile never was because they could "save" roughly $100K more than what they're paying Bryzgalov to NOT play for them. Again....what???

We're not talking a $3 or $4M contract per year they were shedding here. $1.75M cap hit. For a 3rd/4th line center who provides veteran leadership and kills penalties. Okay.

So then we have the "he was sulking." WHAT THE FLIPPING HELL WAS DOWNIE DOING JUST ABOUT EVERY TIME HE STEPPED ON THE FRICKEN ICE? He wasn't winning Miss Congeniality. I'll take someone sulking vs. someone skating around like an imbecile and passing to ANYONE not wearing orange and black.

Maybe Talbot was sulking because he signed with the Flyers when the team had Jagr and Carle and looked like a team that wanted to compete and he went through an idiotic offseason that brought us Mark freaking Streit, VLC (sucks), and no real upgrade on the blueline. Then a preseason and camp with absolutely no effort or even pretense of effort from either the head coach or the roster, and a regular season that began the same way.

Gee, I left the Penguins for the Flyers because I thought both were attempting to compete but Philly offered me slightly more and suddenly I'm stuck on the fricken Florida Panthers. Professional or not, maybe I'd sulk too!

It wasn't just his role. It was that he was sold a swamp land packaged as a resort.

Good for him moving on to Colorado. It's over and done--hopefully that is the case and dumb ass #1 (Holmgren) or dumb ass #2 (Snider) don't offer Downme a contract. But the party line reasoning about Downie and Talbot is nonsense from where I sit.

Post of the year!

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@ruxpin

Wow... Well said!

@Mad Dog

That's my point though. Mason kept you in every game. What might have been with a Talbot kind of guy pushing teammates to excel? A guy giving everything makes others do the same. I watched Max for years as a 4th line center. Few men are out there that stepped up for the playoffs like him. He was a leader and a motivator even with superstars in the lineup in front of him. Might have made a difference.

Nothing to be done for it, just an observation.

Judging by some Polaris Talbot would have been sitting on the edge of the bench sucking his thumb and sulking bc he "needed to be traded". Great post by the way... Completely agree

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I think it hurt you guys this year though. I sincerely believe a guy like Talbot could've been enough to put you over the rangers this past series. You were 1 game away.

We'll never know. And as you said its free space next season.

 

 The old Max Talbot, sure. The Max Talbot we had this year? Glad he's gone. I'm not blaming him for the Flyers start, that was on the entire team. But there was no rah-rah in Max Talbot this year, and that made trading him for an expiring contract all right with me.

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My bad. I wasn't suggesting we get rid of them this year, but that their contracts are such that the player will not likely live up to its value and expectations.

 

Hartnell was fine this past year. He may be fine next year, though I wouldn't count on it if he's moved off the top line. His production will most certainly drop. But what about the FOUR years after that when he's in his mid-30s? 

 

Same with MacDonald but for different reasons. I just don't think he's a $5M defenseman. IMO, Hjalmarsson (at $4.1M) set the bar for 2nd pairing defensemen, and I would take him over MacDonald 11 times out of 10. So the expectations on MacDonald will most likely not match his performance. Especially if the Flyers insist on setting him up for failure (expecting top line performance out of a bottom 4 defenseman). 

 

 

 

 

I agree. As I read between the lines in quotes from Homer, Snider, Berube, I get the feeling that Vinny is here to stay. I don't get that feeling with Brayden Schenn. They would rather move Brayden to make room for Vinny than the other way around.

 

I understand what you're saying now, but at the same time, I can't worry about that yet. I can't worry about a guy who might be a problem in four years. That's a lot of assuming. His production will eventually drop, I know that. But how much, I have no idea. He should be moved off the top line though (so should Raffl too). Neither one of them belong there.

 

I agree MacDonald is overpaid.

 

Really? I never got the impression they'd pick Vinny over Schenn. I never got the impression it was an either or, though I have to admit I haven't read a ton about it yet either.

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Really? I never got the impression they'd pick Vinny over Schenn. I never got the impression it was an either or, though I have to admit I haven't read a ton about it yet either.

 

Yeah, I'd have to back and get some quotes, but there were things like Homer saying Vinny could play 2nd line center, and Brayden moves to wing, and I think both Homer and Snider saying Vinny can't remain a 4th line player for this team, and that he will rebound and work with Berube, etc. I just didn't see any kind of endorsement of Brayden, what role they see for him, what they expect of him, etc. So I just got the vibe that they were setting the groundwork for moving him. 

 

Of course, with Hextall a GM all bets are off. I think it makes it easier to move VLC, because Hextall is not the one who signed him. Less of an organizational embarrassment.

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Yeah, I'd have to back and get some quotes, but there were things like Homer saying Vinny could play 2nd line center, and Brayden moves to wing, and I think both Homer and Snider saying Vinny can't remain a 4th line player for this team, and that he will rebound and work with Berube, etc. I just didn't see any kind of endorsement of Brayden, what role they see for him, what they expect of him, etc. So I just got the vibe that they were setting the groundwork for moving him. 

 

Of course, with Hextall a GM all bets are off. I think it makes it easier to move VLC, because Hextall is not the one who signed him. Less of an organizational embarrassment.

 

That doesn't mean they're gonna move Schenn though. There's a big difference between moving him to another position vs. another team. If they trade him I will riot btw.

 

I honestly don't think Vinny is going anywhere. Who is going to want him and his contract?

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