Bertuzzi/Moore trial date finally nears

[fanaticV3.0]

Then you need to watch it again. When you ride a guy's back into the ice there's no in intended to it. I understand your disdain for the neck brace gimmick. But it doesn't change the medical reports by professional neurologists that are a matter of record in the courts. The injuries are real, and to defend Bertuzzi on this blows my mind. He'd be arrested anywhere in the US or Canada and rightly so. That was as cowardly an attack as the NHL has seen.

 

I haven't thought about this piece of hockey history in a long time. I just watched the video for the first time in I don't know how long. He not only drove Moore's face into the ice - after jumping on his back - he followed him around for several seconds clutching and grabbing at him the entire time. He clearly planned and intended to hurt him.

 

I can't believe Bertuzzi is still playing. That's a disgrace.

[J0e Th0rnton]

"That kid's a piece of sh-t." - Todd Bertuzzi.

 

Unintended, right.

He intended, as I said above, for it to be a McCarty jumping Lemieux blood game style beating. He never intended to have it turn out as it did.

[Polaris922]

He intended, as I said above, for it to be a McCarty jumping Lemieux blood game style beating. He never intended to have it turn out as it did.

 

The hangup for me is riding the man into the ice.  If he hadn't done that, I wouldn't be so against the man.  But the video evidence is quite clear that he rode the man like a mule headfirst into the ice.  And for that, he should be paying with more than cash.  I respect your dislike of Moore in the case.  Nobody like a money grab.  But honestly, in this case, the man deserves however much money he can get from what should be a convicted felon.  

[pogomutt]

Looks like the consensus is "guilty". So one hockey player intentionally injured another. So what if Bertuzzi is found guilty in a civil court and a large damage award is instructed by a jury? Will this open the floodgates for litigation in the NHL? What if everybody who gets injured in a fight, sues for damages? That's definitely a case of two players intentionally doing bodily harm to one another. I can see why the courts are reluctant to hear cases like this. If you're going to play in leagues like the NHL or NFL, there's a very good chance that you're going to be injured, maybe seriously, and the guy inflicting the injury may be doing it intentionally. That's the nature of "contact sports".

 

I think it should be up to the league to handle these situations. It ought to be a clause in player's contracts that no matter how they're injured during a game, they won't pursue civil litigation. The NFL just ponied up $750 million for injured NFL veterans, players who suffered mainly concussion injuries. The NHL needs to establish a similar trust for its long-term casualties.

 

So where are we heading? "Touch" hockey? "Flag" hockey? Not a chance. This is the era of the goon, and the fans love it. You've got to be a big person to play professional hockey anymore. 6'2" and 210 lbs. is getting to be average, and there are players much bigger than that. Fights? Should we eliminate them altogether? Sure, then you and the other 123 fans who show up, can enjoy all your NHL home games together. I was reminded of the true nature of the NHL during the past player strike, when Gary Bettman was on the NHL Channel discussing fighting. I paraphrase him here. "The NHL isn't a purist endeavor. It's a big money business. It's sports entertainment. We wouldn't have fighting as part of the game if the fans didn't love that aspect of professional hockey". Amen. 

[Polaris922]

@pogomutt

The league will never and should never assume responsibility for conduct such as Bertuzzi's. and you can't remove an individual's responsibility for that kind of attack.

[pogomutt]

Really. The NFL just assumed responsibility. I can't imagine the NHL being far behind. They do it to forestall endless litigation against the league itself. As to Moore, I took worse ass-whippings than that as a 10 year-old peewee in Wetaskiwin. 

[Polaris922]

Really. The NFL just assumed responsibility. I can't imagine the NHL being far behind. They do it to forestall endless litigation against the league itself. As to Moore, I took worse ass-whippings than that as a 10 year-old peewee in Wetaskiwin.

The NFL assed responsibility for concussions caused as a result of the violence natural to the game. Not players sucker punching one another from behind and driving their heads into the ground.

[J0e Th0rnton]

The hangup for me is riding the man into the ice.  If he hadn't done that, I wouldn't be so against the man.  But the video evidence is quite clear that he rode the man like a mule headfirst into the ice.  And for that, he should be paying with more than cash.  I respect your dislike of Moore in the case.  Nobody like a money grab.  But honestly, in this case, the man deserves however much money he can get from what should be a convicted felon.  

 

In my opinion having seen the same video, he leaned into his punch and falling over him while holding him was incidental. We see guys fall over each other in fights ALL THE TIME. This just happened to be the incident where something bad happened.

 

Again, do you condemn McCarty for smashing Claude Lemieux in the blood game? Should he have never played again? He ripped free from an officials grasp to sucker punch Lemieux in the same manner, dropping him as he did not see the punch coming, then threw half a dozen rabbit punches to the back of the head(A punch banned in both boxing and MMA because it can kill), then he dragged Lemieux to the boards where he slammed his head into the boards and then kneed him in the head.

 

In the middle of this, Patrick Roy was beelining to jump on both of them, and only did not because Shanahan intercepted him.

 

It could have been the exact same incident had the results ended with Lemieux being injured. Lemieux had even answered the bell and fought for his hit on Draper already, but that was not good enough for McCarty.

 

To this day, people glorify that game and brawl and the beginning of a glorious rivalry, and call it "old time hockey"

 

That is exactly what Bertuzzi was aiming for, but the results were drastically different

[fanaticV3.0]

He intended, as I said above, for it to be a McCarty jumping Lemieux blood game style beating. He never intended to have it turn out as it did.

 

Bertuzzi jumped on Moore's guy's back. Nothing like that happened in either McCarty/Lemieux incident. That's a rather weak comparison.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Bertuzzi jumped on Moore's guy's back. Nothing like that happened in either McCarty/Lemieux incident. That's a rather weak comparison.

Oh please. Bertuzzi grabbed him, punched him in the head and went down with him. McCarty ripped out of a referees grasp to haymaker a Lemieux who was not looking. While lemieux was down and had no idea where he was, McCarty pounced on him and began throwing Tito Ortiz style bombs to the back of his head. He then dragged him to the boards and slammed his head into the boards and then threw a knee into his head.

 

The scope of sheer violence McCarty threw at CL dwarfed the Bertuzzi/Moore incident by a country mile.

[yave1964]

Oh please. Bertuzzi grabbed him, punched him in the head and went down with him. McCarty ripped out of a referees grasp to haymaker a Lemieux who was not looking. While lemieux was down and had no idea where he was, McCarty pounced on him and began throwing Tito Ortiz style bombs to the back of his head. He then dragged him to the boards and slammed his head into the boards and then threw a knee into his head.

 

The scope of sheer violence McCarty threw at CL dwarfed the Bertuzzi/Moore incident by a country mile.

It was not the degree Joe, it was the result.

If I am speeding going 90 miles an hour and get a ticket that is one thing. If I am speeding and only going 70 in a 55 and run a red light and kill someone that is much worse. It is the result. If McCarty had injured Lemieux to the same degree as Bert and Moore I would agree with you. The end result makes the two cases not at all similar. The most similar in the history of the game would be the Dave Forbes/Henry Boucha incident in the seventies where Forbes blindsided Boucha and essentially near blinded him in one eye ending his career within a year or two.

[J0e Th0rnton]

It was not the degree Joe, it was the result.

If I am speeding going 90 miles an hour and get a ticket that is one thing. If I am speeding and only going 70 in a 55 and run a red light and kill someone that is much worse. It is the result. If McCarty had injured Lemieux to the same degree as Bert and Moore I would agree with you. The end result makes the two cases not at all similar. The most similar in the history of the game would be the Dave Forbes/Henry Boucha incident in the seventies where Forbes blindsided Boucha and essentially near blinded him in one eye ending his career within a year or two.

That was pretty much what I am getting at.

 

It is the result that people cite when they call it "the dirtiest thing ever", when in fact, I have seen Waaaaaaaay worse things happen in hockey, but just did not have the same unfortunate result.

 

IMO, had everyone not jumped on top and added another 1000 pounds to his head, it would not have been as bad. And in any case, my personal opinion is he is faking the extent of his injuries. Otherwise, he would not have said "no" to NHL doctors getting a second opinion and ripped his neckbrace off in that cellphone video. it is a career marginal AHL guy looking for the big payday by smearing the game.

 

But when it comes down to it, McCarty took it a hell of a lot further than Bertuzzi did(Lemieux was completely out of it from the first sucker punch), but got lucky that Lemieux was not seriously hurt with all the extras he threw in.

 

Thus, people need to get off the "it was the dirtiest thing ever" train when condemning Bert, who threw a single punch while holding him and going down on top of him. Those same people praise McCarty for destroying and attempting to bludgeon Lemieux with rabbit punches, slamming his head into the boards, and even knees when Lemieux was already out of it(he was completely dazed) from the sucker punch he never saw coming.

 

What it was for Bert and Moore was unfortunate. It could easily have been the spark of another rivalry, and been blood game 2.0. but bad luck turned it into what we see today.

[NRH]

Every sport applies more weight to something the moment the end result is discovered rather than punishing for the severity of the incident itself.

It was not the degree Joe, it was the result.

If I am speeding going 90 miles an hour and get a ticket that is one thing. If I am speeding and only going 70 in a 55 and run a red light and kill someone that is much worse. It is the result. If McCarty had injured Lemieux to the same degree as Bert and Moore I would agree with you. The end result makes the two cases not at all similar. The most similar in the history of the game would be the Dave Forbes/Henry Boucha incident in the seventies where Forbes blindsided Boucha and essentially near blinded him in one eye ending his career within a year or two.

 

This is a terrible analogy, you attribute breaking 1 law as less serve than breaking 3+ laws.  

 

The McCarty fight was far more violent with a lesser result not less violent with a worse result as is the case with Bertuzzi.

 

Should Pronger would be justified suing Mikhail Grabovski for ending his career? After all the concussion he caused Pronger was accidental just like the brain damage Bertuzzi caused Moore. The way it happened isn't important its the end result right?

[yave1964]

@NRH

I feel confident that Bertuzzi had zero intention of it working out the way that it did with Moore. Honestly, I get that. But prisons are littered with people who did not intend for the situation to wind up the way that it did.

Somehow this has taken a life of its own and went in a different direction than I intended, my point was simply if Bettman and Bertuzzi had not lowballed years ago this whole thing would have been over and forgotten long ago. And you and I know there is a hell of a difference between catching a slapshot in the head versus having a man bear jump on your back, lol.

I sympathize with Moore in regards to the way the league closed ranks against him. He should have been dealt with quickly and fairly, maybe even a bit past fair if necessary and this would have been over. Just another example, IMHO of Bettman being the wrong man for the job. Keep in mind I am a Wings fan, lifelong. I have had a very difficult time with Bert being on our team for the past however many years, not because of what he did, agreed it was a tragic accident, but because neither he nor the league paid for the tragic accident.

[J0e Th0rnton]

@NRH

I feel confident that Bertuzzi had zero intention of it working out the way that it did with Moore. Honestly, I get that. But prisons are littered with people who did not intend for the situation to wind up the way that it did.

Somehow this has taken a life of its own and went in a different direction than I intended, my point was simply if Bettman and Bertuzzi had not lowballed years ago this whole thing would have been over and forgotten long ago. And you and I know there is a hell of a difference between catching a slapshot in the head versus having a man bear jump on your back, lol.

I sympathize with Moore in regards to the way the league closed ranks against him. He should have been dealt with quickly and fairly, maybe even a bit past fair if necessary and this would have been over. Just another example, IMHO of Bettman being the wrong man for the job. Keep in mind I am a Wings fan, lifelong. I have had a very difficult time with Bert being on our team for the past however many years, not because of what he did, agreed it was a tragic accident, but because neither he nor the league paid for the tragic accident.

I used to get it from the standpoint that people think the league is trying to screw Moore. But when I looked at the wording of the CBA, my stance changed.

 

It is written right into the CBA that you get a certain amount for career ending claims and they are not allowed to waiver on the amount or change it based on circumstances.

 

The CBA also is pretty clear that the player has to release all legal claims to receive the disability payments. That explicitly includes claims against the player that caused the injury, and they are not allowed to make exemptions on that either.

 

Basically, the leagues hands are tied. It sucks

[Vanflyer]

The man's dream was taken away from him by a goon.  

 

I am not taking away his actions, but 700 points in 1100+ games and 1400 pims hardly constitutes goon. 

[J0e Th0rnton]

I am not taking away his actions, but 700 points in 1100+ games and 1400 pims hardly constitutes goon. 

Heh. in fact, Bertuzzi was one of the biggest superstars in the game at the time of the incident. Moore was a marginal 3rd line AHL player who got called up due to 9 injuries on the avs Roster and tried to make a Matt Cooke/Raffi Torres name for himself by elbowing Naslund blindside.

 

Bertuzzi lost more money in that 20 game suspension than Moore projected to make his entire NHL career.

[Polaris922]

First off.. the number is wrong.  February 2014 records say the suit is $38 million.  So unless something happened since then... 

 

 

Again, do you condemn McCarty for smashing Claude Lemieux in the blood game? Should he have never played again? He ripped free from an officials grasp to sucker punch Lemieux in the same manner, dropping him as he did not see the punch coming, then threw half a dozen rabbit punches to the back of the head(A punch banned in both boxing and MMA because it can kill), then he dragged Lemieux to the boards where he slammed his head into the boards and then kneed him in the head.

 

 

Not that this matters really, but I didn't remember the McCarty / Lemieux incident as well so I went and looked it back up.  McCarty sucker punched Lemieux plain as day, and then continues on him while he's down.  I don't see the banging the head into the boards thing really but the brutality of the attack is clear.  Is there a difference there?   In my eyes there is.  McCarty doesn't come up and attack from behind, and he doesn't use the ice as a weapon (or the boards that I can see).  Lemieux wasn't helpless, but chose to turtle hoping it would end.  Maybe he became helpless somewhere along the lines, but he wasn't driven head first into the ice.  Should McCarty have gotten a long suspension?  Absolutely.  But was it within the accepted premise of fighting within the game?  I think so though it's admittedly borderline and may have warranted further action against him.  if Lemieux's career had ended because of it, McCarty should have been banned from ever playing again.  

 

THAT's how I feel about Bertuzzi.  When it comes to assaults, in every state in this country AND in Canada, the severity of the attack is gauged by the severity of the injuries.  Hence you have simple assault statutes vs. aggravated assault statutes.  Any severe  or permanent life changing injury is aggravated assault.  That's a felony.  If Steve Moore were faking it, he'd have been cleared by doctors to play again and been back in the league.  Would have been a much better way for him than having to wait ten years to fight about it in court.  For the record, his injuries weren't just noted by "his own doctors" as you keep suggesting.  The emergency room doctors and the hospital staff records show the same injuries he is claiming from his eleven day stay in the hospital in Vancouver.  "He sustained massive injuries as a result of the assault including spinal fractions, spine ligament injuries, a closed head injury, facial lacerations and abrasions,

loss of consciousness, and loss of memory."

 

 

Oh please. Bertuzzi grabbed him, punched him in the head and went down with him. 

 

Then went down with him?  How exactly is he going down WITH him and not ON him.  He RODE him into the ice.  There was nothing to trip up Bertuzi and make him fall with Moore.  He CHOSE to ride Moore into the ice.  You're a good poster here and contribute a lot, but to say he fell WITH him it pure fiction you're spouting to defend your stance.  And for what?   Because Moore threw what would be a legal body check into Naslund, but Naslund went down on one knee trying to avoid it and got hit in the head?  By Moore's kidney?   Really?   Didn't Matt Cooke already fight Moore earlier in the same game to make him answer for it?  Wasn't THAT what the code calls for?  Answering the bell when challenged for it, which Moore already did?  "went down with him" may be the biggest understatement I've seen in this discussion yet.  It's pure crap, honestly.  

 

I am not taking away his actions, but 700 points in 1100+ games and 1400 pims hardly constitutes goon. 

 

I'm not taking away from Bertuzzi's point scoring talents.  He pulled a goon move and deserves the title of goon for it.  When his career is over, what will he be most remembered for?  An assault.  

[J0e Th0rnton]

First off.. the number is wrong.  February 2014 records say the suit is $38 million.  So unless something happened since then... 

 

Originally, he was suing for $15 million. Then he bumped the number up by adding a million here and there for aggravated damages and punitive damages. Then his parents got into it by suing for a few million for emotional distress, Then he amnded his lawsuit to $35 million + 3.5 million for his parents.

 

 

Not that this matters really, but I didn't remember the McCarty / Lemieux incident as well so I went and looked it back up.  McCarty sucker punched Lemieux plain as day, and then continues on him while he's down.  I don't see the banging the head into the boards thing really but the brutality of the attack is clear.  Is there a difference there?   In my eyes there is.  McCarty doesn't come up and attack from behind, and he doesn't use the ice as a weapon (or the boards that I can see).  Lemieux wasn't helpless, but chose to turtle hoping it would end.  Maybe he became helpless somewhere along the lines, but he wasn't driven head first into the ice.  Should McCarty have gotten a long suspension?  Absolutely.  But was it within the accepted premise of fighting within the game?  I think so though it's admittedly borderline and may have warranted further action against him.  if Lemieux's career had ended because of it, McCarty should have been banned from ever playing again.

McCarty completely sucker punched Lemieux, hitting him when he did not see it coming at all, and Lemieux was completely rocked from the punch. It was followed up by half a dozen punches to the back of the head(Illegal in all combat sports due to lethality) and yes, he did then drag him to slam his head into the boards and knee him.

 

There is nothing admittedly borderline about it. At least you are the one guy who admits he deserved a long suspension over it. Everyone else acts like it was completely "old time hockey"

 

 

THAT's how I feel about Bertuzzi.  When it comes to assaults, in every state in this country AND in Canada, the severity of the attack is gauged by the severity of the injuries.  Hence you have simple assault statutes vs. aggravated assault statutes.  Any severe  or permanent life changing injury is aggravated assault.  That's a felony.  If Steve Moore were faking it, he'd have been cleared by doctors to play again and been back in the league.  Would have been a much better way for him than having to wait ten years to fight about it in court.  For the record, his injuries weren't just noted by "his own doctors" as you keep suggesting.  The emergency room doctors and the hospital staff records show the same injuries he is claiming from his eleven day stay in the hospital in Vancouver.  "He sustained massive injuries as a result of the assault including spinal fractions, spine ligament injuries, a closed head injury, facial lacerations and abrasions,

loss of consciousness, and loss of memory."

 

Steve Moore refused to allow second opinions other than his personal doctors to see him to gauge the long term effects. His immediate injuries are not what is in doubt. It is his claims of long term effects. That combined with his ripping the neck brace off and acting like he was fine in that video after walking like he was barely able to move for the camera's smells.

 

At best, he would have played out the year, and then returned to the AHL for far less money, he knows it, and he took the more financially appealing road. This talk of "losing his dream" is nonsense. He was a 25 year old call up who was a marginal/league minimum AHL player and energy checker, only there due to 9 injuries on the avs roster and them having no hard nosed guys on their squad.

 

He was later offered a contract to return to NHL duty, which he rejected because it stipulated it was a two way contract and required another doctor to check him.

 

He is using that law degree well.

 

And I hate to be the guy who claims he spoke to a player and has inside info, but, well, I did, and even his own teammate does not support him and claims he is fine now, but working for the payday.

 

 

 

 

Then went down with him?  How exactly is he going down WITH him and not ON him.  He RODE him into the ice.  There was nothing to trip up Bertuzi and make him fall with Moore.  He CHOSE to ride Moore into the ice.  You're a good poster here and contribute a lot, but to say he fell WITH him it pure fiction you're spouting to defend your stance.  And for what?   Because Moore threw what would be a legal body check into Naslund, but Naslund went down on one knee trying to avoid it and got hit in the head?  By Moore's kidney?   Really?   Didn't Matt Cooke already fight Moore earlier in the same game to make him answer for it?  Wasn't THAT what the code calls for?  Answering the bell when challenged for it, which Moore already did?  "went down with him" may be the biggest understatement I've seen in this discussion yet.  It's pure crap, honestly.  

 

 

I'm not taking away from Bertuzzi's point scoring talents.  He pulled a goon move and deserves the title of goon for it.  When his career is over, what will he be most remembered for?  An assault.

Bertuzzi grabbed him, leaned into the punch while holding him, and went down with him. That is what I see in the video and that is what happened. The way people talk you would swear Bertuzzi gave him a tombstone piledriver, when in fact, all he did was go down with him. He did not jump on him and spike his head, and he did not intentionally drive his head into the ice. Moore honestly went down far faster than one expects and it was exactly 2 seconds from the punch to 5 guys on top of him. Bertuzzi followed him around chirping, trying to get him into a fight, and Moore wanted none of it, so Bert forced the issue and it turned out badly

 

Who cares if he fought Cook? He tied up Cook's jersey, threw a few punches and took him down at his nearest opportunity. Lemieux had already fought since nailing Draper and it happened 4 games later. Its Hockey.

[Polaris922]

Second opinions would not matter. A slew of neurologists support the fact that he cannot return for fear of paralyzingly injury. His emergency room records thoroughly support that. Moore is a smart man, and maybe you should consider the doctors he's avoiding are the NHL payroll variety. Something I would do too.

Your refusal to see the plain as day fact that Bertuzzi INTENTIONALLY rides him down head first into the ice blows your entire argument as being subjective rather than objective. He DID give him a 200+ pound pile driver. That kind of attack can be lethal and from the emergency room reports it damn near was. One of those vertebrae slices the spinal cord and you're at a funeral instead if a lawsuit.

Frankly Joe your stance on this is ridiculous. You don't have to hate Bertuzxi or like Moore, but to ignore the facts of Bertuzzi's actions that are staring you right in the face is absurd. Watch the video. Please. Then tell me what made Bertuzzi "fall with" Moore? Or where Moore's sweater stretches out behind him as Bertuzzi tries to catch him as was so ridiculously stated earlier.

Screw any of Moore's supposed teammates and insider views. They stick together in the league. The video speaks for itself, you're just refusing to actually SEE it bud. There's no way in hell Bertuzzi was doing anything but riding him down to punish him. Did he know it would end his career? Absolutely not. Would he be found guilty in a criminal court with a beyond reasonable doubt standard?? 100% affirmative.

[fanaticV3.0]

Second opinions would not matter. A slew of neurologists support the fact that he cannot return for fear of paralyzingly injury. His emergency room records thoroughly support that. Moore is a smart man, and maybe you should consider the doctors he's avoiding are the NHL payroll variety. Something I would do too.

Your refusal to see the plain as day fact that Bertuzzi INTENTIONALLY rides him down head first into the ice blows your entire argument as being subjective rather than objective. He DID give him a 200+ pound pile driver. That kind of attack can be lethal and from the emergency room reports it damn near was. One of those vertebrae slices the spinal cord and you're at a funeral instead if a lawsuit.

Frankly Joe your stance on this is ridiculous. You don't have to hate Bertuzxi or like Moore, but to ignore the facts of Bertuzzi's actions that are staring you right in the face is absurd. Watch the video. Please. Then tell me what made Bertuzzi "fall with" Moore? Or where Moore's sweater stretches out behind him as Bertuzzi tries to catch him as was so ridiculously stated earlier.

Screw any of Moore's supposed teammates and insider views. They stick together in the league. The video speaks for itself, you're just refusing to actually SEE it bud. There's no way in hell Bertuzzi was doing anything but riding him down to punish him. Did he know it would end his career? Absolutely not. Would he be found guilty in a criminal court with a beyond reasonable doubt standard?? 100% affirmative.

 

He's incapable of separating that stuff when really it's irrelevant to the incident on the ice.

Edited May 8, 2014 by fanaticV3.0

[J0e Th0rnton]

Already watched it a hundred times and I know what happens when you are skating right behind someone leaning into them and they go down. You go down on top of them. You are choosing to see what you want to see. 

[Polaris922]

Already watched it a hundred times and I know what happens when you are skating right behind someone leaning into them and they go down. You go down on top of them. You are choosing to see what you want to see.

Actually bud, he's three feet away when he throws the sucker punch that KO's Moore, then suddenly riding him down dragging his feet to put his weight on him. I seriously don't know how you can't see this. It's not a matter of perspective. There's nothing to take Bertuzzi's feet or balance away. It's not a matter of seeing what I want, it's a matter of you ignoring the video in front of your eyes.

I'll stop brow beating you with it. I don't "agree to disagree". You're just refusing to admit the facts of what you can see because you dislike Moore.

Case closed.

[yave1964]

Actually bud, he's three feet away when he throws the sucker punch that KO's Moore, then suddenly riding him down dragging his feet to put his weight on him. I seriously don't know how you can't see this. It's not a matter of perspective. There's nothing to take Bertuzzi's feet or balance away. It's not a matter of seeing what I want, it's a matter of you ignoring the video in front of your eyes.

I'll stop brow beating you with it. I don't "agree to disagree". You're just refusing to admit the facts of what you can see because you dislike Moore.

Case closed.

What you said.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Actually bud, he's three feet away when he throws the sucker punch that KO's Moore, then suddenly riding him down dragging his feet to put his weight on him. I seriously don't know how you can't see this. It's not a matter of perspective. There's nothing to take Bertuzzi's feet or balance away. It's not a matter of seeing what I want, it's a matter of you ignoring the video in front of your eyes.

I'll stop brow beating you with it. I don't "agree to disagree". You're just refusing to admit the facts of what you can see because you dislike Moore.

Case closed.

LMAO. Their legs are literally touching the second the punch connects and Moore stops dead bud. Not 3 feet away. Like, as the punch lands, the front of Bertuzzi's knees touch the back of Moore's knees as he drops, and Bertuzzi, holding on to the back of his sweater skating with forward momentum, has nowhere to go. Did he hold on to his jersey and go down on top of him with the intention of continuing to punch and get a better hold? yes. Bertuzzi had thrown the punch and had no intentions of letting Moore go now. Did he intentionally drive his head into the ice? No, not by a longshot. In that split second from the punch to pile on the ice, all Bertuzzi was thinking of was posturing up and getting more shots in.

 

Feel free to assume whatever you want. EVEN MOORE'S OWN TEAMMATES say that is not how it happened, but you respond to that by saying "They are in league with the league trying to band together against Moore". No, Moore's own teammates know what is up and they are speaking frankly and honestly.

 

You claim I am just seeing that because "I don't like Moore"(Which is funny because I do not like Bertuzzi either). Well, I say you just fell for the newschannel propaganda and sensationalism  take on it showing the clip over and over and repeating the words violence, unsportsmanlike, etc

It was a routine revenge/payback gone wrong by bad luck. Nothing more, nothing less. Its part of the game, and it is a shame Moore was the one guy in hundreds of incidents around that time to get seriously hurt by having a thousand pounds of teammates and enemies pile on to his head thrashing after getting cold cocked.

 

I like you, and like a good argument, but this one is going to go nowhere. Hockey circles EVERYWHERE are split 50/50 on this hit, and have been since it happened. Half support your side, and half support mine.

Edited May 8, 2014 by J0e Th0rnton