Bertuzzi/Moore trial date finally nears

[Polaris922]

Oh my god REPORTED!

I'm a Pens fan and even I didn't go there!

[Polaris922]

Until the medical issues are made public it's 100% hearsay for us to debate!

As I said earlier they're documented in the lawsuit and we found them the last time we did all this so they are documented. It's the validity some argued but 5 different medical Ted agreed for the most part.

[Old School Hockey]

As I said earlier they're documented in the lawsuit and we found them the last time we did all this so they are documented. It's the validity some argued but 5 different medical Ted agreed for the most part.

Would you (not being a dick) mind providing a link?

[Polaris922]

Would you (not being a dick) mind providing a link?

It took us hours to find it last time. I'm working a 17 hr shift tomorrow if I get some down time I'll try finding it again.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Oh my god REPORTED!

 

I'm a Pens fan and even I didn't go there!

rofl. The best way out of one fight is to start another

Edited July 7, 2014 by J0e Th0rnton

[Polaris922]

Would you (not being a dick) mind providing a link?

 

I'm busy as can be at work today man so try using google for the moore lawsuit and see if you can find it.  I just don't have the time.  As I said we spoke of it in the previous thread at length so you could always go there to see it.  I think we copy/pasted directly from it at the time.  

[hf101]

@Polaris922

 

It should be in this thread then, as I merged the two threads yesterday.

[jammer2]

  Just get this over with already, 10+ years and counting since the incident. I know there is big money and big lawyers involved in all of this, but it's dragging on seemingly forever. By the time you factor in all the lawyers fees, they would have been better off meeting face to face and working out a deal. Don't know if it's quite that simple (perhaps personal liability insurance is coming into play, I dunno) .....but dammit, just hash it out and move on.

[J0e Th0rnton]

I'm busy as can be at work today man so try using google for the moore lawsuit and see if you can find it.  I just don't have the time.  As I said we spoke of it in the previous thread at length so you could always go there to see it.  I think we copy/pasted directly from it at the time.  

 

@yave1964

@Old School Hockey

I have been searching google to limited success.

 

I did find a copy of the court judgment transcript from 2004, which the Judge had a lengthy dialogue of the facts as presented. A few things stuck out.

 

http://www.provincialcourt.bc.ca/judgments.php?link=http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcpc/

 

Dec 22, 2004 for those who want to read it. Ill highlight a few parts. Particularly of Bertuzzi landing on Moore since some maintain he intentionally drove Moore to the ice, while others like me, think the falling on him was not intentional(And apparently, the Crown prosecution did not try to argue the matter). Also, where the treating doctors think his concussion is on the lower end of the spectrum, and that he has been improving as days go by(Back in 2004), while it is noted that a Doctor Moore personally got a consult from aside from the doctors he had to see is the one giving the less optimistic outlook.

 

Here are some quotes.

 

[17]      As is shown in the video, at the time Bertuzzi let go of the stick in his right hand, the stick fell to the ground. It appears that his left foot mounted that prone stick at the time he punched Moore. Bertuzzi's falling forward is equally consistent with him having lost his balance from having stepped on his own stick.

 

 

[26]      When Mr. Moore was attended to by the treating neurologist in Vancouver, it was that doctor's opinion that the concussion was considered to be at the minor end of the spectrum and that it was the opinion of that treating neurologist that Mr. Moore recovered extremely well in the days immediately following.

[27]      Thereafter he received medical attention in Colorado. Subsequently it appears that his case has also been considered in a medical facility in Cleveland.

[28]      The Crown has made efforts to maintain updates on Mr. Moore's neurological condition, and one as of October the 22nd suggested that his situation was improving. There were still symptoms which were primarily subjective symptoms of post-concussion symptomology, but ones which appeared to be generally improving. It looks like he has renewed physical activity under the supervision of physicians and trainers, but it is clear that he is not yet at the level that he was when playing in the National Hockey League.

[29]      One doctor, Dr. Adrian Upton, who has been consulted by Mr. Moore, has a less optimistic prognosis of the progress of Mr. Moore. His concerns seem to be based upon the fact that there has not been a complete recovery within the seven to eight months since the injury, and in his opinion that may raise the prospect of some other factors going on with Mr. Moore. Those potential conditions are not ones that could be disclosed by the traditional neurological diagnostic techniques such as the MIR. It is anticipated that Mr. Moore will continue in his rehabilitation and will continue to receive top level medical attention. It is also clear that at this juncture Mr. Moore has not returned to playing hockey at any level, and the prognosis of when he may be able to return is as yet uncertain.

 

I am not trying to be a dink by pointing this out and keeping this argument going. But I am still in the "he is playing it up to get a big payday" camp and these statements from the judge ring like a gong to me. The one doctor he personally consults just happens to have a less optimistic outlook based on prospects that cannot be disclosed by traditional techniques?

 

In any case, interpret it as you will. I know a few people here think some are a bit heartless for "forgetting Steve Moore", but things I have read like this..........At least understand from some points of view, this is very suspicious

Edited July 9, 2014 by J0e Th0rnton

[Polaris922]

@yave1964

@Old School Hockey

I have been searching google to limited success.

I did find a copy of the court judgment transcript from 2004, which the Judge had a lengthy dialogue of the facts as presented. A few things stuck out.

http://www.provincialcourt.bc.ca/judgments.php?link=http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcpc/

Dec 22, 2004 for those who want to read it. Ill highlight a few parts. Particularly of Bertuzzi landing on Moore since some maintain he intentionally drove Moore to the ice, while others like me, think the falling on him was not intentional(And apparently, the Crown prosecution did not try to argue the matter). Also, where the treating doctors think his concussion is on the lower end of the spectrum, and that he has been improving as days go by(Back in 2004), while it is noted that a Doctor Moore personally got a consult from aside from the doctors he had to see is the one giving the less optimistic outlook.

Here are some quotes.

[17] As is shown in the video, at the time Bertuzzi let go of the stick in his right hand, the stick fell to the ground. It appears that his left foot mounted that prone stick at the time he punched Moore. Bertuzzi's falling forward is equally consistent with him having lost his balance from having stepped on his own stick.

[26] When Mr. Moore was attended to by the treating neurologist in Vancouver, it was that doctor's opinion that the concussion was considered to be at the minor end of the spectrum and that it was the opinion of that treating neurologist that Mr. Moore recovered extremely well in the days immediately following.

[27] Thereafter he received medical attention in Colorado. Subsequently it appears that his case has also been considered in a medical facility in Cleveland.

[28] The Crown has made efforts to maintain updates on Mr. Moore's neurological condition, and one as of October the 22nd suggested that his situation was improving. There were still symptoms which were primarily subjective symptoms of post-concussion symptomology, but ones which appeared to be generally improving. It looks like he has renewed physical activity under the supervision of physicians and trainers, but it is clear that he is not yet at the level that he was when playing in the National Hockey League.

[29] One doctor, Dr. Adrian Upton, who has been consulted by Mr. Moore, has a less optimistic prognosis of the progress of Mr. Moore. His concerns seem to be based upon the fact that there has not been a complete recovery within the seven to eight months since the injury, and in his opinion that may raise the prospect of some other factors going on with Mr. Moore. Those potential conditions are not ones that could be disclosed by the traditional neurological diagnostic techniques such as the MIR. It is anticipated that Mr. Moore will continue in his rehabilitation and will continue to receive top level medical attention. It is also clear that at this juncture Mr. Moore has not returned to playing hockey at any level, and the prognosis of when he may be able to return is as yet uncertain.

I am not trying to be a dink by pointing this out and keeping this argument going. But I am still in the "he is playing it up to get a big payday" camp and these statements from the judge ring like a gong to me. The one doctor he personally consults just happens to have a less optimistic outlook based on prospects that cannot be disclosed by traditional techniques?

In any case, interpret it as you will. I know a few people here think some are a bit heartless for "forgetting Steve Moore", but things I have read like this..........At least understand from some points of view, this is very suspicious

That all strikes me as straight out if the defense's argument brief and its certainly not a judge's findings. There were also allegations that the prosecutors were Canucks fans.

Seriously though, the prosecution was getting a guilty plea. They never argue the defense's excuses when they get their guilty plea. Those statements are NOT considered findings of fact, as the judge simply accepts them with the plea.

Interesting there's no mention of the cracked vertebrae and such from his neck. But they bother to comment on how it "appears" Bertuzzi fell, which in watching the video over and over I contest is absolute horse ****.

As for the concussion issues, the best neurologists in the world can't help anyone there. Ask Crosby how his return to hockey went for him. He sat out how much longer with "soft tissue" damage after the first attempt?

Edited July 10, 2014 by Polaris922

[J0e Th0rnton]

That all strikes me as straight out if the defense's argument brief and its certainly not a judge's findings. There were also allegations that the prosecutors were Canucks fans.

Seriously though, the prosecution was getting a guilty plea. They never argue the defense's excuses when they get their guilty plea. Those statements are NOT considered findings of fact, as the judge simply accepts them with the plea.

Interesting there's no mention of the cracked vertebrae and such from his neck. But they bother to comment on how it "appears" Bertuzzi fell, which in watching the video over and over I contest is absolute horse ****.

As for the concussion issues, the best neurologists in the world can't help anyone there. Ask Crosby how his return to hockey went for him. He sat out how much longer with "soft tissue" damage after the first attempt?

I know we are going to disagree on the "falling" vs "driving head into the ice" debacle.

 

They did mention the broken vertebrae. I just did not quote the entire thing because it is pages long. But they did state that the crown kept up with the doctors and that some of the assigned doctors indicated his condition was improving, while a doctor Moore personally consulted on the side just happened to be the one giving the less optimistic outlook and mentioning things that "could not be found through traditional diagnostic techniques"

 

I interpret that as Moore went to a doctor on the side to get a different opinion than the "he is improving" and got him to say there are things that will not show up through medical examination. Yep, sounds a lot like Homer Simpson getting a prescription for Dimoxinil from a "special" doctor on the side who charged it through is benefits to "keep brain from freezing"

[Polaris922]

I know we are going to disagree on the "falling" vs "driving head into the ice" debacle.

They did mention the broken vertebrae. I just did not quote the entire thing because it is pages long. But they did state that the crown kept up with the doctors and that some of the assigned doctors indicated his condition was improving, while a doctor Moore personally consulted on the side just happened to be the one giving the less optimistic outlook and mentioning things that "could not be found through traditional diagnostic techniques"

I interpret that as Moore went to a doctor on the side to get a different opinion than the "he is improving" and got him to say there are things that will not show up through medical examination. Yep, sounds a lot like Homer Simpson getting a prescription for Dimoxinil from a "special" doctor on the side who charged it through is benefits to "keep brain from freezing"

Crosby's doctors said the same thing shortly before his first comeback...