Could BSchenn produce like Ryan?

[radoran]

One need only look at future Flyer messiah Bobby Ryans post Getzlaf/Perry stats which were very similiar to Schenns output this year.

 

Quibble: Ryan played 70 games, Schenn 82.

 

Ryan had 48 points in 70 games, Schenn 41 in 82

 

Ryan "projects" to 27 goals, 29 assists (56 points) over 82 games. That's pretty much right in line with his career assist average and a drop-off of about 7 goals from his four year starter average (not counting lockout). As you note, without Getzlaf/Perry setting him up/drawing attention, his points average dropped a whopping six points going from a team that is still playing hockey to one that didn't make the playoffs.

 

The question is: can Schenn get into the 25-30 goal range and hit 60-70 points on a consistent basis? Ryan at 22 was completing his first 30-goal season and embarking on his second.

 

That said, once Hextall deals off all the youth to get Ryan and Weber, everything should be fine

[flyercanuck]

@radoran

 

 Quibble - Schenn got bounced around because the team thought they needed yet another center. Ryan dropped from .78 ppg to .68. It's not huge, but it's a difference.

 

 I'm not saying Schenn is Ryan...I'm saying Ryan AND Maroon benefited from playing with two of the better players in the league. Simmonds is a nice player. But he's no Getzlaf or Perry...yet.

[radoran]

@radoran

 

 Quibble - Schenn got bounced around because the team thought they needed yet another center. Ryan dropped from .78 ppg to .68. It's not huge, but it's a difference.

 

 I'm not saying Schenn is Ryan...I'm saying Ryan AND Maroon benefited from playing with two of the better players in the league. Simmonds is a nice player. But he's no Getzlaf or Perry...yet.

 

Absolutely, but again the pertinent question is can Schenn get to "the next level" (which is probably actually two "levels" from where he is now)?

 

Getting him to be a 20/50 guy is a short step, getting to 25-30/60-70 is the place they need him.

[murraycraven]

That said, once Hextall deals off all the youth to get Ryan and Weber, everything should be fine

 

 

I just vurped up my coffee reading that...

[murraycraven]

Absolutely, but again the pertinent question is can Schenn get to "the next level" (which is probably actually two "levels" from where he is now)?

 

Getting him to be a 20/50 guy is a short step, getting to 25-30/60-70 is the place they need him.

 

That is the million dollar question for this Team...  Good luck Hexy!

 

Personally, and this is a gut feeling, I do not think Schenn will be a 25-30 goal scorer - or shall I say a consistent 25-30 guy. One thing I was hoping to see in his maturation process this year was more consistency which frankly was just not there. I am hoping I am flat-out wrong on this topic if he sticks around next year. Said it once and I will say it again that I really have a sense that Schenn is a goner via trade this offseason

Edited May 8, 2014 by murraycraven

[DaGreatGazoo]

I bet JVR can.  

[radoran]

I bet JVR can.  

 

[DaGreatGazoo]

 

LMAO!!  Well done, sir.  

[flyercanuck]

Absolutely, but again the pertinent question is can Schenn get to "the next level" (which is probably actually two "levels" from where he is now)?

 

Getting him to be a 20/50 guy is a short step, getting to 25-30/60-70 is the place they need him.

 

 That is an important question. Most scouts say the line is around 300 games for most players to really know what you're getting. Schenn is a season and a half away from that number. I'm hoping he shows more by the mid point of next season.

 

 The point I was trying to make was people have been knocking Schenns progress, in a season where he was bounced around yet produced better than 20/20. Then a thread appears calling a 25 year old player who had lesser numbers playing with elite linemates a star. (and in jammers defence he's not one of the guys knocking Schenn)

 

 Just pointing how the grass is usually greener.

[radoran]

Just pointing how the grass is usually greener.

 

I split this out so that it could be taken in context of itself instead of in context comparing Maroon to Schenn (and left your comment there).

 

Grass is always greener. The ice is always smoother. People really need to understand that they're (usually) not seeing 82 games from other teams and that the "lapses" seen on the Flyers in fact happen to everyone.

 

There are guys who get beat more often than others. I really don't see Coburn in that situation. He's also $500K cheaper than MacDonald and has arguably accomplished much more on the ice than "MacDaddy."

[flyercanuck]

I split this out so that it could be taken in context of itself instead of in context comparing Maroon to Schenn (and left your comment there).

 

Grass is always greener. The ice is always smoother. People really need to understand that they're (usually) not seeing 82 games from other teams and that the "lapses" seen on the Flyers in fact happen to everyone.

 

There are guys who get beat more often than others. I really don't see Coburn in that situation. He's also $500K cheaper than MacDonald and has arguably accomplished much more on the ice than "MacDaddy."

 

 

 This ^^^

 

 If you watched only Flyer highlights, you'd wish the Flyers were Flyers. (not YOU in particular) I don't know many Flyer fans around here where I live. But I hear a lot of "wish we had fill in the blank with Flyer name on our team"..

[fanaticV3.0]

That is the million dollar question for this Team...  Good luck Hexy!

 

Personally, and this is a gut feeling, I do not think Schenn will be a 25-30 goal scorer - or shall I say a consistent 25-30 guy. One thing I was hoping to see in his maturation process this year was more consistency which frankly was just not there. I am hoping I am flat-out wrong on this topic if he sticks around next year. Said it once and I will say it again that I really have a sense that Schenn is a goner via trade this offseason

 

I don't have any long term projections for him yet to be completely honest. I think it's a little too soon to make any definitive statements on his career either way. I don't know if he's going to be a bust, great, or something in between those two extremes, but 25 goals really isn't much of a stretch considering he just scored 20 in his first full season.

[peter puck]

It will be difficult for him to climb to the next level with Hartnell on his back.

[murraycraven]

I don't have any long term projections for him yet to be completely honest. I think it's a little too soon to make any definitive statements on his career either way. I don't know if he's going to be a bust, great, or something in between those two extremes, but 25 goals really isn't much of a stretch considering he just scored 20 in his first full season.

 

 

Oh, I completely agree and I am not giving up on him... still young and needs time.   When he was sent over I was hoping for a 30 goal scorer but just not sure if that is what will come about.   I like the kid a lot and think he should remain on the roster.   Being bounced around sure has not helped his progress but right now he is a big question mark to me as it relates to his ceiling.

[fanaticV3.0]

Oh, I completely agree and I am not giving up on him... still young and needs time.   When he was sent over I was hoping for a 30 goal scorer but just not sure if that is what will come about.   I like the kid a lot and think he should remain on the roster.   Being bounced around sure has not helped his progress but right now he is a big question mark to me as it relates to his ceiling.

 

When he was sent over I read he was comparable to Mike Richards and likely to be even better. I also read Sean Couturier was a scorer.

 

This isn't directed at you specifically, but frankly I'm a little surprised this conversation even exists. It's stupid. We have a fanbase that bitches that management isn't patient with youth, but is the same group of people bitching about a player's production after his first full season. That's not to say you can't criticize the kid, but people went to defcon 1 a little too quickly for my tastes. People are making predictions on his career after his first full season; one in which he still managed to net 20 after playing several positions. Can we not talk about his shortcomings without going from a 0 to a 10?

 

I agree we don't know his ceiling yet. That's all the more reason I think we should relax.

[murraycraven]

When he was sent over I read he was comparable to Mike Richards and likely to be even better. I also read Sean Couturier was a scorer.

 

This isn't directed at you specifically, but frankly I'm a little surprised this conversation even exists. It's stupid. We have a fanbase that bitches that management isn't patient with youth, but is the same group of people bitching about a player's production after his first full season. That's not to say you can't criticize the kid, but people went to defcon 1 a little too quickly for my tastes. People are making predictions on his career after his first full season; one in which he still managed to net 20 after playing several positions. Can we not talk about his shortcomings without going from a 0 to a 10?

 

I agree we don't know his ceiling yet. That's all the more reason I think we should relax.

 

 

I think it comes form the fear of the unknown and impatience    If I am Hexy I definitely keep the kid around and try like hell to move VLC no matter the return.   I a much more confident betting my 2nd line future on Schenn than Vinny.   I think we (collectively - fans, mgmnt, etc...) just need to let this kid develop.  They are young and they will get better....

 

The big question that comes to mind is management willing to be patient and let Schenn develop?  Based on what I heard yesterday it sounds like they are really taking stock int their youth and realizing you need to build through the draft.   I hope they really adhere to this philosophy...

[intheslot]

I hope they keep him around and let him grow .

[fanaticV3.0]

I think it comes form the fear of the unknown and impatience    If I am Hexy I definitely keep the kid around and try like hell to move VLC no matter the return.   I a much more confident betting my 2nd line future on Schenn than Vinny.   I think we (collectively - fans, mgmnt, etc...) just need to let this kid develop.  They are young and they will get better....

 

The big question that comes to mind is management willing to be patient and let Schenn develop?  Based on what I heard yesterday it sounds like they are really taking stock int their youth and realizing you need to build through the draft.   I hope they really adhere to this philosophy...

 

I get that, but I'm so far from that with him it's not even a factor with me. I've been a little frustrated with Voracek in the past, but we're talking about a kid who was in his 4th year by the time he came here (the last two seasons I've loved Voracek btw). With Schenn, he literally just played his first full season as a pro. I'm more than willing to give him slack and time at this point.

 

I don't know why this is even a topic of conversation. If they end up moving him and I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but this whole he's not producing enough/might get moved stuff is coming almost exclusively from the fans imo.

[mojo1917]

but this whole he's not producing enough/might get moved stuff is coming almost exclusively from the fans imo.

 

to go a little further with this, of the "20 goal scorers" from the team this year, his number truly represents "scoring depth".  He was one of only a couple of players that didn't benefit from playing with Giroux.  He was not on the same PP unit as Simmonds , Hartnell and Voracek were, he skated only a handful of even strength shifts with Claude.  His 20 goals were largely independent of G.  So yeah, let's see what we might have here, with this Schenn.kid.  

[murraycraven]

to go a little further with this, of the "20 goal scorers" from the team this year, his number truly represents "scoring depth".  He was one of only a couple of players that didn't benefit from playing with Giroux.  He was not on the same PP unit as Simmonds , Hartnell and Voracek were, he skated only a handful of even strength shifts with Claude.  His 20 goals were largely independent of G.  So yeah, let's see what we might have here, with this Schenn.kid.  

 

 

well said mojo and agree...

[fanaticV3.0]

to go a little further with this, of the "20 goal scorers" from the team this year, his number truly represents "scoring depth".  He was one of only a couple of players that didn't benefit from playing with Giroux.  He was not on the same PP unit as Simmonds , Hartnell and Voracek were, he skated only a handful of even strength shifts with Claude.  His 20 goals were largely independent of G.  So yeah, let's see what we might have here, with this Schenn.kid.  

 

Make no mistake, the kid did not blow me away this season. Personally I don't think he's a center. He has no defensive game at all and doesn't even try. And the points about him being in and out effort wise are totally true.But it's his first full season for Christ's sake. Cut the kid some effin' slack. It has become way too fashionable to criticize this kid.

 

And like you said, he got 20 goals in a "bad" year, while not playing with the team's top talent. If they can figure out this kid's role on the team, and he can put forth a little more consistent effort, I think he'll be fine.

Edited May 9, 2014 by fanaticV3.0

[radoran]

Make no mistake, the kid did not blow me away this season. Personally I don't think he's a center. He has no defensive game at all and doesn't even try. And the points about him being in and out effort wise are totally true.But it's his first full season for Christ's sake. Cut the kid some effin' slack. It has become way too fashionable to criticize this kid.

 

And like you said, he got 20 goals in a "bad" year, while not playing with the team's top talent. If they can figure out this kid's role on the team, and he can put forth a little more consistent effort, I think he'll be fine.

 

James vanRiemsdyk says "hello"

 

I totally agree with everything you've got there. 

 

"Consistency" is the biggest challenge facing this - any - hockey team.

[fanaticV3.0]

James vanRiemsdyk says "hello"

 

I totally agree with everything you've got there. 

 

"Consistency" is the biggest challenge facing this - any - hockey team.

 

JVR frustrated me so much more than Schenn, but yeah that was an awful trade. We would have made out better if we got a bag of autographed pucks - preferably not Leafs plays - than we have with the other Schenn.

 

The really frustrating thing about the other Schenn is that he does try, he just stinks. He hits, isn't afraid to fight, but he's not a very good player. The only hope I have for him is that he's young, especially for a defenseman, and they sometimes take longer to develop.

[canoli]

You said "this was his first full season" a couple times now... but it wasn't at all. You seem to be implying he should be rated like a rookie but the last 2 years he skated every game on the Flyers' schedule but one. And then he's got the 54 games from his 1st year with the Flyers, plus ~10 with the Kings. All in all he's just about to hit 200 NHL games.

 

hey Fan I I agree with you he deserves some slack for being young and maybe for a few other reasons... but pretending he's a rookie just isn't one of them.