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Panatch: Homer's Best and Worst


radoran
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http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-philadelphia-flyers/holmgrens-best-and-worst-moves-flyers-gm

 


Everyone was treated like family, regardless of whether they deserved such recognition.

So when judging Holmgren’s eight years at the helm, you have to consider the culture under which he operated whereby every player was treated as family.

 


Holmgren’s best trades
Feb. 24, 2007: Alexei Zhitnik to Atlanta for Braydon Coburn

June 18, 2007: First-round pick (’07) to Nashville for rights to Scott Hartnell and Kimmo Timonen

Nov. 7, 2008: Steve Downie, Steve Eminger and fourth-round pick (’09) to Tampa Bay for Matt Carle

June 26, 2009: Joffrey Lupul, Luca Sbisa, two first-round picks (’09, ’10) and second round pick ('10) to Anaheim for Chris Pronger and Ryan Dingle

July 1, 2010: Second-round pick (’12) to Tampa Bay for Andrej Meszaros

Feb. 16, 2012: Second-round (’12) and third-round (’13) pick to Dallas for Nick Grossmann

April 3, 2013: Michael Leighton and third-round pick (’15) to Columbus for Steve Mason

June 12, 2013: Shayne Harper and fourth-round pick (’14) to the Islanders for Mark Streit

March 4, 2014: Third-round (’14) and second-round picks (’15) to the Islanders for Andrew MacDonald

Jury still out
June 23, 2011: Rob Bordson and Mike Richards to L.A. for Wayne Simmonds and Brayden Schenn

June 23, 2011: Jeff Carter to Columbus for Jakub Voracek and first-round pick (Sean Couturier); thirrd-round pick (Nick Cousins)

Holmgren’s worst trades
June 7, 2011: Matt Clackson to Phoenix for rights to Ilya Bryzgalov

June 23, 2012: James van Riemsdyk to Toronto for Luke Schenn

Oct. 31, 2013: Max Talbot to Colorado for Steve Downie

Best free-agent signing
July 1, 2007: Danny Briere

Worst free-agent signings
June 23, 2011: Ilya Bryzgalov

July 2, 2013: Vinny Lecavalier

 

Have at it.

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Believe it or not, I don't agree with this one:  June 7, 2011: Matt Clackson to Phoenix for rights to Ilya Bryzgalov

 

That's a good trade.  It's the contract that was ridonkulous.  2 separate issues--even though Timmy P does cover the signing under the FA part.

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Believe it or not, I don't agree with this one:  June 7, 2011: Matt Clackson to Phoenix for rights to Ilya Bryzgalov

 

That's a good trade.  It's the contract that was ridonkulous.  2 separate issues--even though Timmy P does cover the signing under the FA part.

 

Completely agree. But Timmy P leaves out the TWO THIRDS that went with Clackson to Phoenix...

 

I would definitely put Upshall and a 2nd for Carcillo in "worst deals"

 

 

@radoran

 

 We all have our opinions of Homers best and worst. It's a good discussion to have, but i really don't care what this clown thinks.

 

Could have been worse, I could have posted Jay Greenberg's stenography "analysis"

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@radoran

 

 Wasn't it Pannacio who called Gostibehere "Ghostburger" or something like that yesterday on Hextalls PC? You'd think a guy who writes for the Flyers FOR A LIVING would know how to pronounce one of the most exciting D prospects we've had in a long long long time ok, ever...name

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Believe it or not, I don't agree with this one:  June 7, 2011: Matt Clackson to Phoenix for rights to Ilya Bryzgalov

 

That's a good trade.  It's the contract that was ridonkulous.  2 separate issues--even though Timmy P does cover the signing under the FA part.

 

Very true.

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@radoran

 

 Wasn't it Pannacio who called Gostibehere "Ghostburger" or something like that yesterday on Hextalls PC? You'd think a guy who writes for the Flyers FOR A LIVING would know how to pronounce one of the most exciting D prospects we've had in a long long long time ok, ever...name

 

The stuff you get upset over, lol.

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The "best of" list is twice as long as the "worst of". Interesting.

 

I wouldn't count the Downie/Talbot trade as one of his worst. Downie sucked, but Talbot was mopey as f-ck here. He quit on this team when the going got tough.

 

The worst thing about Homer is the contracts he gave out. He overpays and in more ways than one. Too much money for the talent acquired, too long of a contract given, and the NMCs/NTCs got way out of hand. The old man has something to do with that. He is the king of knee-jerk reactions and going hard (too hard) for something when it's a weakness. Homer didn't do enough to talk him out of it though. Maybe he tried to reason with him behind closed doors, but too much caving to "Mr. Snider" goes in in this organization.

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You did see the "CSNPhilly" on the link, right?

 

The team's owner is paying him (fine, yes, another division of the team's owner, but, still...)

 

It doesn't mean he can't be right though. If he said something so clearly wrong we're all smart enough to know that.

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The worst thing about Homer is the contracts he gave out. He overpays and in more ways than one.

 

In general, he also overpaid with his picks when he made a trade.

 

MacDonald cost us a 2nd, a 3rd, and depth AHL player (Mangene). Montreal got Vanek and a 5th for Collberg and a 2nd. Isles got Halak for a 4th. 

 

Carcillo cost us Upshall AND a 2nd (Lessio); Carcillo cost the Rangers a 7th. 

 

Versteeg cost us a 1st and 3rd, and then we traded him about 27 games later for a 2nd and a 3rd. I mean, wtf?

 

Homer was VERY liberal in his distribution of picks. Which can partially explain our bottom-ranked AHL team (though things appear to be changing with last year's draft).

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Believe it or not, I don't agree with this one: June 7, 2011: Matt Clackson to Phoenix for rights to Ilya Bryzgalov

That's a good trade. It's the contract that was ridonkulous. 2 separate issues--even though Timmy P does cover the signing under the FA part.

If you look at it from the point of view that the details of the trade almost necessitated the signing, then i don't know. A prospect and two picks for a player whose contact was about to expire... If a deal wasn't in place before free agency, then those assets were literally thrown away.

To my mind, a trade whose only two possible outcomes were

1) a bad contract untempered by a buyer's market for goalies a month later

or

2) losing a prospect and a draft pick for absolutely nothing at all

is a bad trade.

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If you look at it from the point of view that the details of the trade almost necessitated the signing, then i don't know. A prospect and two picks for a player whose contact was about to expire... If a deal wasn't in place before free agency, then those assets were literally thrown away.

To my mind, a trade whose only two possible outcomes were

1) a bad contract untempered by a buyer's market for goalies a month later

or

2) losing a prospect and a draft pick for absolutely nothing at all

is a bad trade.

 

I selectively forgot that there were 2 draft picks include in the deal.  Yeah, 2 picks and a player for rights..MEH.

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I selectively forgot that there were 2 draft picks include in the deal. Yeah, 2 picks and a player for rights..MEH.

What's more, rights to a player who had stated his intention to be one of the highest paid goalies in the league. It really was an awful trade.

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What's more, rights to a player who had stated his intention to be one of the highest paid goalies in the league. It really was an awful trade.

 

True, but at that time, he was also the best option(or widely regarded as such) goalie heading into FA.   If he didn't get a 276 year deal, with a NMC trade, I don't think the trade would be considered horrible.  Then factor in his 2 years with Philly, and it looks atrocious in hind sight.

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True, but at that time, he was also the best option(or widely regarded as such) goalie heading into FA. If he didn't get a 276 year deal, with a NMC trade, I don't think the trade would be considered horrible. Then factor in his 2 years with Philly, and it looks atrocious in hind sight.

Right, but the timing and details of the trade put all of the negotiating power in bryzgalov's hands. Holmgren had to agree to whatever terms, else he had just burned assets. The trade almost created the contact.

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In general, he also overpaid with his picks when he made a trade.

 

MacDonald cost us a 2nd, a 3rd, and depth AHL player (Mangene). Montreal got Vanek and a 5th for Collberg and a 2nd. Isles got Halak for a 4th. 

 

Carcillo cost us Upshall AND a 2nd (Lessio); Carcillo cost the Rangers a 7th. 

 

Versteeg cost us a 1st and 3rd, and then we traded him about 27 games later for a 2nd and a 3rd. I mean, wtf?

 

Homer was VERY liberal in his distribution of picks. Which can partially explain our bottom-ranked AHL team (though things appear to be changing with last year's draft).

 

Yeah, I can agree with that. When he wants something, he spends a lot to get it, a lot to keep it here, and commits to it for too long.

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