radoran Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-philadelphia-flyers/holmgrens-best-and-worst-moves-flyers-gm Everyone was treated like family, regardless of whether they deserved such recognition.So when judging Holmgren’s eight years at the helm, you have to consider the culture under which he operated whereby every player was treated as family. Holmgren’s best tradesFeb. 24, 2007: Alexei Zhitnik to Atlanta for Braydon CoburnJune 18, 2007: First-round pick (’07) to Nashville for rights to Scott Hartnell and Kimmo TimonenNov. 7, 2008: Steve Downie, Steve Eminger and fourth-round pick (’09) to Tampa Bay for Matt CarleJune 26, 2009: Joffrey Lupul, Luca Sbisa, two first-round picks (’09, ’10) and second round pick ('10) to Anaheim for Chris Pronger and Ryan DingleJuly 1, 2010: Second-round pick (’12) to Tampa Bay for Andrej MeszarosFeb. 16, 2012: Second-round (’12) and third-round (’13) pick to Dallas for Nick GrossmannApril 3, 2013: Michael Leighton and third-round pick (’15) to Columbus for Steve MasonJune 12, 2013: Shayne Harper and fourth-round pick (’14) to the Islanders for Mark StreitMarch 4, 2014: Third-round (’14) and second-round picks (’15) to the Islanders for Andrew MacDonaldJury still outJune 23, 2011: Rob Bordson and Mike Richards to L.A. for Wayne Simmonds and Brayden SchennJune 23, 2011: Jeff Carter to Columbus for Jakub Voracek and first-round pick (Sean Couturier); thirrd-round pick (Nick Cousins)Holmgren’s worst tradesJune 7, 2011: Matt Clackson to Phoenix for rights to Ilya BryzgalovJune 23, 2012: James van Riemsdyk to Toronto for Luke SchennOct. 31, 2013: Max Talbot to Colorado for Steve DownieBest free-agent signingJuly 1, 2007: Danny BriereWorst free-agent signingsJune 23, 2011: Ilya BryzgalovJuly 2, 2013: Vinny Lecavalier Have at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Believe it or not, I don't agree with this one: June 7, 2011: Matt Clackson to Phoenix for rights to Ilya Bryzgalov That's a good trade. It's the contract that was ridonkulous. 2 separate issues--even though Timmy P does cover the signing under the FA part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 @radoran We all have our opinions of Homers best and worst. It's a good discussion to have, but i really don't care what this clown thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 Believe it or not, I don't agree with this one: June 7, 2011: Matt Clackson to Phoenix for rights to Ilya Bryzgalov That's a good trade. It's the contract that was ridonkulous. 2 separate issues--even though Timmy P does cover the signing under the FA part. Completely agree. But Timmy P leaves out the TWO THIRDS that went with Clackson to Phoenix... I would definitely put Upshall and a 2nd for Carcillo in "worst deals" @radoran We all have our opinions of Homers best and worst. It's a good discussion to have, but i really don't care what this clown thinks. Could have been worse, I could have posted Jay Greenberg's stenography "analysis" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 @radoran Wasn't it Pannacio who called Gostibehere "Ghostburger" or something like that yesterday on Hextalls PC? You'd think a guy who writes for the Flyers FOR A LIVING would know how to pronounce one of the most exciting D prospects we've had in a long long long time ok, ever...name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Completely agree. But Timmy P leaves out the TWO THIRDS that went with Clackson to Phoenix.. Man, I forgot about them too! Then again, I'm not a beat writer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Wait F'n Steve Eminger didn't make the list of all time stupidity, or Carcillo? WTF Tim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Believe it or not, I don't agree with this one: June 7, 2011: Matt Clackson to Phoenix for rights to Ilya Bryzgalov That's a good trade. It's the contract that was ridonkulous. 2 separate issues--even though Timmy P does cover the signing under the FA part. Very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 @radoran Wasn't it Pannacio who called Gostibehere "Ghostburger" or something like that yesterday on Hextalls PC? You'd think a guy who writes for the Flyers FOR A LIVING would know how to pronounce one of the most exciting D prospects we've had in a long long long time ok, ever...name The stuff you get upset over, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 How about we rate Tim Pinocchio's best and worst. I'm betting the former will be shorter than the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 The "best of" list is twice as long as the "worst of". Interesting. I wouldn't count the Downie/Talbot trade as one of his worst. Downie sucked, but Talbot was mopey as f-ck here. He quit on this team when the going got tough. The worst thing about Homer is the contracts he gave out. He overpays and in more ways than one. Too much money for the talent acquired, too long of a contract given, and the NMCs/NTCs got way out of hand. The old man has something to do with that. He is the king of knee-jerk reactions and going hard (too hard) for something when it's a weakness. Homer didn't do enough to talk him out of it though. Maybe he tried to reason with him behind closed doors, but too much caving to "Mr. Snider" goes in in this organization. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 The stuff you get upset over, lol. Ya, that one had me shooting kittens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 The "best of" list is twice as long as the "worst of". Interesting. You did see the "CSNPhilly" on the link, right? The team's owner is paying him (fine, yes, another division of the team's owner, but, still...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 You did see the "CSNPhilly" on the link, right? The team's owner is paying him (fine, yes, another division of the team's owner, but, still...) It doesn't mean he can't be right though. If he said something so clearly wrong we're all smart enough to know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 The worst thing about Homer is the contracts he gave out. He overpays and in more ways than one. In general, he also overpaid with his picks when he made a trade. MacDonald cost us a 2nd, a 3rd, and depth AHL player (Mangene). Montreal got Vanek and a 5th for Collberg and a 2nd. Isles got Halak for a 4th. Carcillo cost us Upshall AND a 2nd (Lessio); Carcillo cost the Rangers a 7th. Versteeg cost us a 1st and 3rd, and then we traded him about 27 games later for a 2nd and a 3rd. I mean, wtf? Homer was VERY liberal in his distribution of picks. Which can partially explain our bottom-ranked AHL team (though things appear to be changing with last year's draft). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Believe it or not, I don't agree with this one: June 7, 2011: Matt Clackson to Phoenix for rights to Ilya BryzgalovThat's a good trade. It's the contract that was ridonkulous. 2 separate issues--even though Timmy P does cover the signing under the FA part.If you look at it from the point of view that the details of the trade almost necessitated the signing, then i don't know. A prospect and two picks for a player whose contact was about to expire... If a deal wasn't in place before free agency, then those assets were literally thrown away. To my mind, a trade whose only two possible outcomes were1) a bad contract untempered by a buyer's market for goalies a month later or2) losing a prospect and a draft pick for absolutely nothing at all is a bad trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 If you look at it from the point of view that the details of the trade almost necessitated the signing, then i don't know. A prospect and two picks for a player whose contact was about to expire... If a deal wasn't in place before free agency, then those assets were literally thrown away.To my mind, a trade whose only two possible outcomes were1) a bad contract untempered by a buyer's market for goalies a month lateror2) losing a prospect and a draft pick for absolutely nothing at allis a bad trade. I selectively forgot that there were 2 draft picks include in the deal. Yeah, 2 picks and a player for rights..MEH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I selectively forgot that there were 2 draft picks include in the deal. Yeah, 2 picks and a player for rights..MEH.What's more, rights to a player who had stated his intention to be one of the highest paid goalies in the league. It really was an awful trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 What's more, rights to a player who had stated his intention to be one of the highest paid goalies in the league. It really was an awful trade. True, but at that time, he was also the best option(or widely regarded as such) goalie heading into FA. If he didn't get a 276 year deal, with a NMC trade, I don't think the trade would be considered horrible. Then factor in his 2 years with Philly, and it looks atrocious in hind sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 True, but at that time, he was also the best option(or widely regarded as such) goalie heading into FA. If he didn't get a 276 year deal, with a NMC trade, I don't think the trade would be considered horrible. Then factor in his 2 years with Philly, and it looks atrocious in hind sight.Right, but the timing and details of the trade put all of the negotiating power in bryzgalov's hands. Holmgren had to agree to whatever terms, else he had just burned assets. The trade almost created the contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 In general, he also overpaid with his picks when he made a trade. MacDonald cost us a 2nd, a 3rd, and depth AHL player (Mangene). Montreal got Vanek and a 5th for Collberg and a 2nd. Isles got Halak for a 4th. Carcillo cost us Upshall AND a 2nd (Lessio); Carcillo cost the Rangers a 7th. Versteeg cost us a 1st and 3rd, and then we traded him about 27 games later for a 2nd and a 3rd. I mean, wtf? Homer was VERY liberal in his distribution of picks. Which can partially explain our bottom-ranked AHL team (though things appear to be changing with last year's draft). Yeah, I can agree with that. When he wants something, he spends a lot to get it, a lot to keep it here, and commits to it for too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Sorry i didn't see this thread till after i posted this in the shoutbox.... Paul Holmgren's 10 worst moves as Flyers general manager http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2014/5/8/5693136/paul-holmgren-worst-moves-general-manager-flyers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Paul Holmgren's top ten moves as Flyers general manager http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2014/5/8/5692686/paul-holmgren-best-moves-flyers-general-manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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