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2nd rounders


brelic
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We talk a lot about how often Clarke and Homer seemed to hand out 2nd round draft picks as a parting gift or something. It got me thinking about what actually became of those 2nd rounders, and what we may have missed out on. 

 

I've looked back about a decade to the 2003 draft class, and only 2nd rounders. The list includes 2nd rounders we actually used, 2nd rounders we gave up, and notable players that would have been available to the Flyers (i.e. they were drafted in the 2nd round but *after* the pick we gave up). And if the Flyers used their 2nd rounder and didn't give one away, I didn't include anyone in the notable players list, because the Flyers drafted who they wanted. I'm not trying to second guess their picks, only to see if the picks we gave away could have given us some nice players over the last decade.

 

2003

 

Flyers picks used by Flyers

-None

 

Picks traded away by Flyers

-Maxim Lapierre

 

Notable players that would have been available to Flyers

-David Backes

-Jimmy Howard

 

2004

 

Flyers picks used by Flyers

-None

 

Picks traded away by Flyers

-Bryan Bickell

-Brandon Dubinski

 

Notable players that would have been available to Flyers

-Blake Comeau

-David Booth

-Nicklas Grossmann

-Alex Goligoski

-David Krejci

 

2005

 

Flyers picks used by Flyers

-None

 

Picks traded away by Flyers

-Ondrej Pavelec

-Pier-Olivier Pelletier

 

Notable players that would have been available to Flyers

-Justin Abdelkader

-Paul Stastny

-Guillaume Latendresse

-Mason Raymond

 

2006

 

Flyers picks used by Flyers

-Andreas Nold

-Michael Ratchuk

-Dennis Bodrov

 

Picks traded away by Flyers

-Cory Emmerton

-Shawn Matthias

 

Notable players that would have been available to Flyers

-Nikolai Kulemin

-Jhonas Enroth

-Milan Lucic

-Artem Anisimov

 

2007

 

Flyers picks used by Flyers

-Kevin Marshall

 

Picks traded away by Flyers

-T. J. Brennan

 

Notable players that would have been available to Flyers

-PK Subban

-Wayne Simmonds

 

2008

 

Flyers picks used by Flyers

-None

 

Picks traded away by Flyers

-Dmitri Kugryshev

 

Notable players that would have been available to Flyers

-None

 

2009

 

Flyers picks used by Flyers

-None

 

Picks traded away by Flyers

-Richard Panik

 

Notable players that would have been available to Flyers

-Dmitri Orlov

-Brandon Pirri

-Tomas Tatar

 

2010

 

Flyers picks used by Flyers

-None

 

Picks traded away by Flyers

-Jason Zucker

 

Notable players that would have been available to Flyers

-None

 

2011

 

Flyers picks used by Flyers

-None

 

Picks traded away by Flyers

-Lucas Lessio

 

Notable players that would have been available to Flyers

-None. Too soon to tell?

 

2012

 

Flyers picks used by Flyers

-Anthony Stolarz

 

Picks traded away by Flyers

-Colton Sissons

-Brian Hart

-Devin Shore

 

Notable players that would have been available to Flyers

-Too soon to tell

 

2013

 

Flyers picks used by Flyers

-Robert Hagg

 

Picks traded away by Flyers

-None

 

Notable players that would have been available to Flyers

-None

 

Ok, so seeing that list, what do you think?

 

Those first 3 years, the Flyers had zero picks. Having at least their three picks could have yielded some top level NHLers. 

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I've been preaching to hang on to top draft picks since i've been on these boards.

 

  I don't have a problem with trading some picks in a year when you're going for it. But trading your picks consistently for older vets is just plain dumb. You're trading away potential cheap young players who could be around for the better part of a decade or more for the twilight years of expensive vets. It keeps you competetive, but the team doesn't grow together and so far hasn't won us or the Leafs (another team with the same blueprint) squat. In a capped league it's imperative to continuously inject cheap young talent into your system.

 

  Obviously draft choices can be a crapshoot. But your chances of landing quality talent is better if you actually hang on to those picks...especially in the top 2 rounds. Not picking goons in the 3rd might help your chances a bit as well.

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Wow, kinda wish I hadn't read that post ;) A lot of good (Bickell, Dubinsky) -- to very good (Krejci, Lucic) -- to excellent players (Backes, Subban) in that list of Flyer could-have-beens. I know this kind of retroactive draft analysis is super speculative, but...ouch.

 

Well, I'm looking forward to seeing what the Flyers do this summer in free agency & the draft. Hoping against hope that Hextall can somehow break the cycle of expensive/unnecessary FA signings, too-long contract terms, NTCs for everyone, and spendthrift draft pick trading. I'm also hoping Holmgren can be a really positive contributor in terms of talent scouting & evaluation for the draft, which seems to be his strength. 

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@JackStraw

 

 True.

 

 You can look at it two ways...2nd rounders don't end up being impact players very often so why bother...or if you trade away a lot of your 2nds you'll probably never get that Subban/Weber/Krecji steal in that round. It's all about patience.

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@JackStraw

 

 True.

 

 You can look at it two ways...2nd rounders don't end up being impact players very often so why bother...or if you trade away a lot of your 2nds you'll probably never get that Subban/Weber/Krecji steal in that round. It's all about patience.

 

Even if you don't get that diamond in the rough, you'll at least get some NHLers out of it with the chance that some overachieve. And they'll probably be cheaper.

 

This Flyers team has 3 of its own draft picks playing: Giroux, Couturier, and Rinaldo.

 

That's one way to build a team (buy and sign developed players instead of drafting and developing your own), and it's brought a lot of success. The formula was basically:

Play season. Identify holes. Fill holes with UFA signings and big trades.

 

Every team does some of that, of course. The difference with the Flyers is that they never looked to their own players/picks/farm team to fill those holes. I believe Gustafsson is AT LEAST a #5/6 defenseman in the NHL for the past few seasons now. But we prefer to fill the holes with the likes of Foster, Gervais, Walker, Gill, Lilja. And based on limited playing time, I saw no evidence that Lauridsen could not be AT LEAST a #6 in the NHL. Again, we fill the holes with waiver wire castoffs and bottom of the barrel signings. If you're telling me that Foster, Gervais, Walker, Gill, and Lilja made FEWER mistakes than Gus or Lauridsen, I don't believe it. Every single one of those signings was terrible. The solution was in house, and they just didn't even want to give it a fair shake.

 

By the sounds of it, Hextall's going to try a different approach. The sound you hear is the sweet sweet sound of a hockey stick clanging back and forth on the goal posts. :)

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@JackStraw

 

 True.

 

 You can look at it two ways...2nd rounders don't end up being impact players very often so why bother...or if you trade away a lot of your 2nds you'll probably never get that Subban/Weber/Krecji steal in that round. It's all about patience.

 

Yeah, the ones they trade away bother me more than the ones they miss on.

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The list of players that the Flyers could have taken is pretty painful to read, but it's probably not much different than any other team.

 

The woulda/coulda aspect is one thing - and indicative of the crapshoot nature of the draft and the value of draft picks in trades - but there are also four "pretty good" players (Bickell, Dubinsky, Lapierre, Pavelec) of the picks between 03 and 11 taken with picks the Flyers had. 

 

The trend shows the Flyers more likely recently to keep their picks, which is probably a good thing. A nice corollary analysis might be to look at what the Flyers got in return for the picks they dealt.

 

Don't have the time immediately :)

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Yeah, the ones they trade away bother me more than the ones they miss on.

 

At least you took a shot. And I don't have a problem trading a 2nd for a twenty-something year old good player. It's the guys you get a year or two out of that are just a waste.

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I've looked back about a decade to the 2003 draft class, and only 2nd rounders.

 

Speaking of 2nd rounders......i'd love the Flyers to sign local boy T.J. Brennan to a 2 way deal....to start off with the Phantoms more so to help the Phantoms.

 

Just a minor depth move but he is a UFA and is only 25. Decent size (6-1 213) and put up 72 points (25g 47a 72pts -10) last year in the AHL. His 25 goals even as a defenseman would have lead the Phantoms.

 

Phantoms could certainly use that and he could replace Gervais as a veteran presence for the younger kids. 

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@OccamsRazor

 

 I don't know the makeup of the Phantoms very well, but as long as it doesn't interfere with the development of Gostisbehere, Hagg and Morin I'm all for upgrading the team.

 

 

It shouldn't...

 

Alt/Hagg

Ghost/Manning

Ollie/Brennan

Lamarche/Konan

 

That would be 8....someone could win a slot on the Phantoms maybe even Ghost/Alt or Ollie and those are just thrown together the pairs. And no i have no intentions to hinder the young guys that is paramount...T.J. would just give them a vet and some actual fire power which you can never have to much of and if need be called up instead of messing with the young guys...just a option.  Plus if need be some could be assigned ECHL team. But injuries happen.

Edited by OccamsRazor
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 I don't know the makeup of the Phantoms very well

 

I posted the projected lineup for next year in the AHL thread. That is without knowing who if any will make they Flyers lineup out of camp next year.

 

Laughton/Alt/Ollie/Ghost.....could make it i'm not sure.

Edited by OccamsRazor
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@OccamsRazor

 

Having better defencemen around those guys certainly won't hurt.

 

 

Yes compared to past lineups this one is shaping up actually will be competitive...should make the playoffs gain after a 5 year absence. Nice infusion of talent coming in next year.

 

Speaking of..........hard to believe with all that talent on the Winterhawks they got bounced last night.

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