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With Gus gone is there more of a push to resign Kimmo?


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@OccamsRazor  Was thinking of starting a thread, which players do you consider virtual *locks* to make the Phantoms next year?  It was a real stinky year for our AHL affiliate, so I expect some whole sale changes down there.

 

 

Do it we need one i had been commenting in the AHL thread down low about them but one needs to be made in the Flyer thread and pinned up top i think.

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@OccamsRazor  Was thinking of starting a thread, which players do you consider virtual *locks* to make the Phantoms next year?  It was a real stinky year for our AHL affiliate, so I expect some whole sale changes down there.

 

 

We need info here on them i always have to go to hockeysfuture website for any info on the AHL guys it would be nice to do that here and not have to go there for it.

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Agreed, but then again, all defensive positions are kinda "must have". 18-20 minutes a night is tough to see as supporting. Which is why, I imagine, the Flyers don't tend to break in their own defensive rookies.

 

You can insert pretty much anyone in the lineup on the third pairing. We've made an art form of it in recent years. I'm not trying to say you will have great results, just that it's not imperative to have great players in your bottom two.

 

Unless you've got some great depth, no supporting player is going to - or should - see 18-20 a night. If you are fortunate enough to be in that position, that's awesome.

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Yes there is. Oliver Lauridsen is ready he'll be 26 next season. He is 6-6 225 and is ready.

 

GrossmanN who is 6-4 230 was 23 when he started in the NHL. His first stint was 8 toatal games in which he added zero points and was -1 in those games.

 

Ollie has 108 games of college under his belt where he scored 7 goals 15 assist for 22 points +8...remember for a stay at home defenseman. He also 189 games in the AHL with 5 goals 19 assist 24 points -5. And with almost no talent on the farm to help him. So he is ready

 

Ollie played last year and held his own he and Luke looked pretty decent in 15 games scoring 2 goals and adding another assist and was even. So he is ready.

 

He hasn't had another chance.

 

But he is ready and camp is the time to insert those so they can throughout the preseason as well and adjust. What you meant to say is that the front office just doesn't want to give them a chance. Which well is another issue all together.

 

Just a little research is required before just assuming because you haven't seen him. Like Gus just said before departing you have to play in order to get better.

 

And Ollie is just once example of the 3 that are ready for a chance in the NHL. But if you would prefer to not let these guy play and let them go somewhere else and get a chance and play that is find but don't come here later and whine that they were never given a chance when they do else where.

 

Noone has a crystal ball you have to play them with some actually talent around them to really see if they can contribute...anything else is merely speculation regardless who it comes from.

 

When did I say we should deny someone a chance to play if they've proven they can?

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There is no prospect in their system that will come in and replace anyone as a rookie. Besides the fact that almost never happens with defenseman, they don't even have anyone of that caliber waiting in the wings to begin with.
 
They need an NHL ready defenseman

 

Pretty much here. He is a NHL ready defenseman. Up to the level of the standard which the Flyers need??? Well i really can't say. Did you come out and actually say that no, but it pretty much says it all when it seems you ignore that he is ready to see if he can break into the lineup.

 

Look it's not just you it that i'm just tired of talking about a 6th 7th defenseman so much this past weekend with other here that in 15 total NHL games they can tell he'll never be nothing more than a AHLer.

 

I didn't know we had so many experts here when it comes to scouting defenseman. I wish some here would shoot Hexy their resume cause he made need to have their expert opinion. So let me say you are not really the focus of all this i'm just tired of talking about a guy yeah or nay so much after only 15 games.

 

It's not like i'm saying he is going to be the savior and lead them to the Cup or something i just want to see if he can help and be a depth guy. That is it so sorry to seem to single you out but it's not my intentions. This will work itself out come training camp. And if i'm putting words in your mouth that isn't my intentions. 

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Pretty much here. He is a NHL ready defenseman. Up to the level of the standard which the Flyers need??? Well i really can't say. Did you come out and actually say that no, but it pretty much says it all when it seems you ignore that he is ready to see if he can break into the lineup.

 

I don't get that from what @fanaticV3.0 is saying at all, actually. He seems pretty clear that if a guy plays himself into the NHL, he should certainly be there.

 

I obviously concur that Lauridsen, Alt, etc. should be given shots in training camp. I would certainly consider using them in a 5/6/7 capacity. It will be one of the challenges of Hextall's early going as to whether or not he gives them the chance to step up.

 

But to say that Lauridsen "is ready" for the NHL is a far cry from Lauridsen "ready" to see if he can break into the lineup. The former implies he has earned a spot, the latter is that he's earned a look. He's earned a look, not a spot.

 

The question, again, is whether or not Hextall will allow development time in the NHL for guys like that to give them extended stays and see if they can stick. Or if he goes out and signs a Gill, Gervais, Lilja type to fill that spot.

 

I am hoping for the former, and we will see in August where they are going.

 

Nevertheless, barring a move, they have five NHL bona fide defensemen on the roster and have expressed interest in bringing back a sixth.

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I didn't know we had so many experts here when it comes to scouting defenseman

 

Physician, heal thyself.

 

:D

 


I wish some here would shoot Hexy their resume cause he made need to have their expert opinion.

 

Philadelphia Flyers
Wells Fargo Center
3601 S. Broad St.
Philadelphia, PA 19148-5297
USA

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I obviously concur that Lauridsen, Alt, etc. should be given shots in training camp.

 

Yes all i'm saying if they don't cut it then they just will have to go elsewhere, Alt back to Phantoms and Ollie well i'm not sure maybe waived and on another team, Phantoms or KHL bound who knows. It will sort itself out.

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Ollie is a stay at home Dman....he isn't going to produce a ton of points but he'll clear the porch some thing GrossamnN and Coburn sure can't do.

Coburn has 72 playoff games under his belt and has scored a whopping 2 friggin goals so is it fair now to put him on blast cause he isn't producing offense.

it isn't about putting anyone on "blast". it was suggested that a defenseman who had a very difficult time putting up points in both junior and the AHL was going to score 30 if/when he is handed an NHL spot and given a few years. a stay at home dman's effectiveness shouldn't be measured by his offensive contribution, i agree. i was responding to what was posted.

as for coburn, yes, 2 goals in 72 playoff games. 23 points, though. that isn't bad for a stay at home guy, is it?

Funny how guys will try to every reason to over look certain guys they like then turn around and not give those same exceptions to a guy who has played a grand total of 15 NHL games.

ugh. no one is getting "exceptions". a 25 year old dman who has been not particularly impressive any where he has played (other than being huge) should never be handed anything. like i said before, ~7 players are added every june to the flyers' reserve list. there has to be SOME way of deciding who is actually worth giving NHL icetime to, and who is pure and distant depth. the logic with lauridsen is they should all be put on the flyers roster, because how else are we going to know? the logic says that performance outside of the NHL is not relevant, that being so-so in the AHL is actually a reason to promote him (because he needs a greater challenge to get better, or something like that). follow through on this logic, dump established mid-roster NHL vets in favor of rookies who have been unable to impress anyone (other than message board posters) based entirely on the theory that they might be ok eventually, and your team will very quickly go straight down the tubes.

here's a news flash: brayden coburn and nicklas grossmann broke into the NHL at 21 and 22 years of age, while 25 yearold lauridsen has been unable to get more than a quick glimpse as an injury call up, because they were far better at that age than he has been. let that sink in for a second. as bad as you think coburn and grossmann are, they were better seven years ago than lauridsen has been to date. think their games are flawed? it is almost guaranteed than his game will be worse. if that wasn't the case, he'd have been on the team. or another team's GM would have come asking for him.

the ability of this board to see unique and absolute flaws (statistical trivia: zdeno chara committed more give-aways last season than any flyers defenseman, and missed more shots on goal than any flyers defenseman, but coburn's giveaways and missed shots are seen here as legendary and without equal) in the flyers' players, while having endless optimism in middling prospects -to the point of actually believing without question that the latter could step in and be a distinct improvement on the former- is amazing.

He played with very little talent on that Phantoms team and when the Flyers needed someone to help on the blueline earlier in the season he didn't even get a chance at that time on the Phantoms he was +12 damn good for a stay at home Dman....that tells me he was doing his job but still not even a cup of coffee.

i'm seeing him as a +1 last season with the phantoms, and a -5 for his AHL career. what is the +12? looks to me like cullen eddy led the team with a +5. sign him up, we have our new #1 dman. if only he'd be given a chance. :ph34r:

tl:dr: a kid has to show something to be given a chance. there are way way too many new players entering eligibility every year to just hand opportunities out, and the price that a team pays for given extended auditions to players who are unable to keep up is way way too steep. they need to earn it. lauridsen maybe can do that in camp. but it is up to him to do. hasn't yet.

Edited by aziz
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Pretty much here. He is a NHL ready defenseman. Up to the level of the standard which the Flyers need??? Well i really can't say. Did you come out and actually say that no, but it pretty much says it all when it seems you ignore that he is ready to see if he can break into the lineup.

 

Look it's not just you it that i'm just tired of talking about a 6th 7th defenseman so much this past weekend with other here that in 15 total NHL games they can tell he'll never be nothing more than a AHLer.

 

I didn't know we had so many experts here when it comes to scouting defenseman. I wish some here would shoot Hexy their resume cause he made need to have their expert opinion. So let me say you are not really the focus of all this i'm just tired of talking about a guy yeah or nay so much after only 15 games.

 

It's not like i'm saying he is going to be the savior and lead them to the Cup or something i just want to see if he can help and be a depth guy. That is it so sorry to seem to single you out but it's not my intentions. This will work itself out come training camp. And if i'm putting words in your mouth that isn't my intentions. 

 

What I'm saying is that they need an NHL ready defenseman and that nobody in the farm system is that. By NHL ready, I don't mean someone who can make a roster. If that's how it came off, sorry. That's not how I meant it. I mean an impact player. If any of them make the team, and it is a perfectly legitimate point to say that it is an if with someone that age and that position, the best you are going to get out of him is 3rd pairing minutes. Kids just don't come out of college or juniors and make that kind of an impact on D. I don't mean to deny a kid a roster spot if he makes it, but that if he does, he's going to be a supporting or possibly even part time player at best. They don't need that. They need a workhorse in all honesty. So if a kid makes the team, that's cool, but they still need someone to replace Timonen and none of the kids are going to do that anytime soon.

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They need a workhorse in all honesty. So if a kid makes the team, that's cool, but they still need someone to replace Timonen and none of the kids are going to do that anytime soon.

 

Yes i assume you mean to replace Kimmo next year cause Kimmo will be back next year. Alt i certainly don't want to be sitting in the box part time he needs to play if he doesn't make it full time back to the Phantoms with him.

 

Ollie is one of 3 things at his age:

 

#1 he is going to make the team or at worse be the 7th guy sitting in the box if not needed and this want hurt him because of his advanced age he can be the Gill type player at a much younger age but more suited foe the role than Gill was.

 

#2 Doesn't cut it is waived risked being claimed and if not returned to the Phantoms which i don't like because he will be taking minutes from the young guys that need to play.

 

#3 just out right cut and released from his contract and either signed with another team maybe the Avs where his brother plays or just heads over seas to the KHL.

 

No matter what if Hexy is true to his word it will work itself out and the best players will make the squad.

 

Plan B: Also if they have to go out and sign another Dman i prefer Anton Stralman see if a 4 year 4.5 mill per will get it done. He turned down a 4 year 3.5mill per deal the Rangers offered.

 

So he is the guy i prefer to target instead of Niskanen.

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what is the +12?

 

That was his +/- in december when the Flyer needed help....that is impressive for a stay at home guy with a so so team around him and a so so goaltender.

 

No matter what it will work itself out. I don't want nothing handed to noone they must earn it just to clarify. And he may not be able to but they will be given a chance we'll see if they seize the opportunity.

 

He could be a career AHLer the fact remain that if he doesn't win a job this year cause i believe it is now or never that may be just what he is.

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