Vanflyer Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I agree here. Whatever happens to Bylsma happens. Get the guy you want and get him as fast as you can. Its not going to happen that fast (well, I could be rong). Need to get the GM first. Wonder who is doing the post-season interviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 Its not going to happen that fast (well, I could be rong). Need to get the GM first. Wonder who is doing the post-season interviews. I mean fast enough where you don't at least lose a chance to bring a guy before another team hires him. If they want Trotz, they better not dawdle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 If they want Trotz, they better not dawdle. Trotz gm / coach? :-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 Trotz gm / coach? :-P It's an interesting though but if I am tapping that Nashville pipeline again it's Fenton GM and Trotz coach. I just have this sinking feeling that it's going to be Botterill with Bylsma staying on as coach. He's a rising star but he's a cap guy - not a player evaluator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) He's a rising star but he's a cap guy - not a player evaluator. I don't want a financier as my GM. No problem as a consultant or other complimentary role under the GM, but not equal or above. As you stated, I want a talent evaluator and puzzle solver. Ever see that movie about the oakland a's. The one guy was a numbers cruncher / statistician and the GM was an ex-player. True story. Edited May 19, 2014 by Vanflyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 @B21 What if they have a numbers guy running the show with a major talent evaluator handling scouting and talent assessment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 I don't want a financier as my GM. No problem as a consultant or other complimentary role under the GM, but not equal or above. As you stated, I want a talent evaluator and puzzle solver. Ever see that movie about the oakland a's. The one guy was a numbers cruncher / statistician and the GM was an ex-player. True story. Moneyball. One of my favorite movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 @B21 What if they have a numbers guy running the show with a major talent evaluator handling scouting and talent assessment? Too many chiefs. Not enough Indians. I want a GM who can do both. Heck, keep Botterill on as a cap specialst (like the Steelers do with Omar Khan). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Too many chiefs. Not enough Indians. I want a GM who can do both. Heck, keep Botterill on as a cap specialst (like the Steelers do with Omar Khan). But that's really no different then. If you have a GM and keep him as a cap specialist, you still have two people. If you make him the GM and have a talent specialist you still have two people. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 But that's really no different then. If you have a GM and keep him as a cap specialist, you still have two people. If you make him the GM and have a talent specialist you still have two people. LOL One of the two have to be calling the shots. I like the "Moneyball" situation. The statistician / finance guy wanted no part of the pressure of being in the limelight and responsibility. He appreciated being behind the curtain and getting acknowledge in a non-fair way. For me that is ideal. Now that said, part of that movie showed him (the stat guy) having to fire some players, but he did it at the direction of the GM and it was for political reasons within the room. Their is a "gut" part of that that the finance / stat guy does not bring. He looks at numbers, while the GM looks players in the eyes and watches them play. Its a ying / yang thing. Look no further at Gary Betteman. Knows a ton about running a business, finances, legalities, but jack straw about hockey. I don't want a guy like him in charge of icing my team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 But that's really no different then. If you have a GM and keep him as a cap specialist, you still have two people. If you make him the GM and have a talent specialist you still have two people. LOL Thinking more along the lines of the currenter (err - most recent) arrangement. Every team has a few assistant GM's. Shero had the final say. Botterill was the cap guy - but in the end it was Shero's call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 One of the two have to be calling the shots. I like the "Moneyball" situation. The statistician / finance guy wanted no part of the pressure of being in the limelight and responsibility. He appreciated being behind the curtain and getting acknowledge in a non-fair way. For me that is ideal. Now that said, part of that movie showed him (the stat guy) having to fire some players, but he did it at the direction of the GM and it was for political reasons within the room. Their is a "gut" part of that that the finance / stat guy does not bring. He looks at numbers, while the GM looks players in the eyes and watches them play. Its a ying / yang thing. Look no further at Gary Betteman. Knows a ton about running a business, finances, legalities, but jack straw about hockey. I don't want a guy like him in charge of icing my team. The stat guy eventually became a GM though. The movie used actual names except for that character. It was loosely based on Paul Depodesta. When the movie Moneyball was being adapted from the book, DePodesta did not approve of the way that his character was being portrayed. The role was previously going to be given DePodesta's name and to be played by Demetri Martin, but DePodesta did not want his name or likeness to be used in the movie; instead the character of "Peter Brand" was created as a composite of Beane's deputies in Oakland, as the character is not an accurate representation of any specific real-life person.[6] However, Moneyball's director Bennett Miller has credited DePodesta for being generous and helpful in the making of the film. Brand was played by Jonah Hill, who was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor for his performance. Anyway - I agree. I think a numbers guy can have a much better chance for success in baseball than in hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 @B21 What if they have a numbers guy running the show with a major talent evaluator handling scouting and talent assessment? This...times a thousand. This is the 21st century model. Without looking at it, and it would be an interesting study, I'd like to see how "successful" teams are set up. Homer was always a solid talent evaluator, most Flyers fans agree with this. The business side of being a GM was his issue(overpaying/contracts too long/throwing away picks/etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Anyway - I agree. I think a numbers guy can have a much better chance for success in baseball than in hockey. Interesting. I did not know that and feel like I stayed at a Holiday Inn. Thanks!! On the numbers thing (salary aside), I ponder (to your point) if that real life scenario in baseball translates to ice hockey. In theory it should (after all, numbers are numbers). I read that corsi stuff and look at other general stats and I think its much more difficult to evaluate a players value worth / ability within a particular team in ice hockey. Its allot like being an actuary on noahs ark in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 Interesting. I did not know that and feel like I stayed at a Holiday Inn. Thanks!! On the numbers thing (salary aside), I ponder (to your point) if that real life scenario in baseball translates to ice hockey. In theory it should (after all, numbers are numbers). I read that corsi stuff and look at other general stats and I think its much more difficult to evaluate a players value worth / ability within a particular team in ice hockey. Its allot like being an actuary on noahs ark in my mind. I agree completely. Baseball is chalk full of finite measureable stats. In hockey, even assists can be judgment calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 And to these points... I honestly think hockey is more a "team" sport. The dependency on your teammates is second by second,entering the zone, passing the puck, dumping and chasing the puck, covering the opponents' rush into your zone, etc etc... where baseball players bat individually, pitch individually, field the ball individually... etc etc... It's a lot harder to evaluate how the "chemistry" of a team will change with an incoming player than it is to crunch the numbers of what a guy's on base percentage will mean or how many errors he makes per season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Hold on Van... Crosby was screaming at Dan on the bench? I ask that in all seriousness.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Hold on Van... Crosby was screaming at Dan on the bench? I ask that in all seriousness....Yes, I saw it live, then NBC did a between the glass bit that replayed portions of the Pens ne Crosby becoming undone.http://youtu.be/7xakzsI3SooNot the "worst" but "not good" either. This is the behavior we see as bad but others ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Hands down this guy I knew he would find encouragement after what Micheal Sam has done. Good for him. It's about time. He must trying to get his own TV series. Oprah on line 2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) Hold on Van... Crosby was screaming at Dan on the bench? I ask that in all seriousness.... "Bylsma’s job was in jeopardy after the Bruins swept Pittsburgh last spring, but he was retained. This year, he guided the U.S. men’s Olympic team into the semifinals in Sochi, breezing through the first four games. Then Team USA failed to record a goal in two flat losses to Canada and Finland. Bylsma is not one to yell and scream, and there was a telling scene on the bench during the series when he and Crosby exchanged words before the coach patted himself on the chest, a gesture most observers took to indicate that he was saying, “my bad.” Michael Jordan was a superstar, but he still answered to Phil Jackson because he respected him. Joe Torre held sway with Derek Jeter. Bill Belichick can still do it with Tom Brady. If there isn’t an available coach out there who has the clout to do that with Crosby – Mike Babcock and Joel Quenneville are spoken for – the Penguins need someone who can develop that sort of relationship with Sid the Kid over time, because the captain is still just 26, albeit a somewhat crabby 26. Crosby has the best backhand in the game, but he whiffed on a rebound – and an open net – midway though the first period. Later in the same frame, he took a lead pass on his backhand and appeared to have New York defenseman Marc Staal beaten for a semi-breakaway. Then as Crosby cut quickly to his forehand, losing Staal’s check in the process, he let the puck slide off his stick. It has become a familiar sight in the postseason to see Crosby shaking his head, staring at the ice and moping on his way back to the bench after a failed scoring attempt.Take a random shift in the second period, when Rangers defenseman Anton Stralman sealed off a puck-carrying Evgeni Malkin along the boards. Crosby was circling to Malkin’s right. Then he circled again, turning his back to the play in frustration, allowing the Rangers to leave him and Malkin behind as they started an odd-man rush in the other direction. Not acceptable." http://nhl.si.com/2014/05/14/new-york-rangers-beat-pittsburgh-penguins-game-7/ Edited May 20, 2014 by Vanflyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I mean fast enough where you don't at least lose a chance to bring a guy before another team hires him. If they want Trotz, they better not dawdle. I agree with this. Also, you can also be apologetic to the new GM and say "while you have the reigns, this is the guy we want for right now". Besides, everyone knows that for a GM to fire / hire a coach, he needs approval from upper management / ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samifan Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I knew he would find encouragement after what Micheal Sam has done. Good for him. It's about time. He must trying to get his own TV series. Oprah on line 2!TMZ is reporting this relationship is in trouble. Apparently Sid is not very pleased that Regis seemed to enjoy his kiss from PK Subban last week. More to follow......... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted May 20, 2014 Author Share Posted May 20, 2014 I agree with this. Also, you can also be apologetic to the new GM and say "while you have the reigns, this is the guy we want for right now". Besides, everyone knows that for a GM to fire / hire a coach, he needs approval from upper management / ownership. I worry that angle may scare away some GM candidates. "Wait - you want me to revamp this team but I have to keep the most unpopular coach in franchise history?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) "Bylsma’s job was in jeopardy after the Bruins swept Pittsburgh last spring, but he was retained. This year, he guided the U.S. men’s Olympic team into the semifinals in Sochi, breezing through the first four games. Then Team USA failed to record a goal in two flat losses to Canada and Finland. Bylsma is not one to yell and scream, and there was a telling scene on the bench during the series when he and Crosby exchanged words before the coach patted himself on the chest, a gesture most observers took to indicate that he was saying, “my bad.” Michael Jordan was a superstar, but he still answered to Phil Jackson because he respected him. Joe Torre held sway with Derek Jeter. Bill Belichick can still do it with Tom Brady. If there isn’t an available coach out there who has the clout to do that with Crosby – Mike Babcock and Joel Quenneville are spoken for – the Penguins need someone who can develop that sort of relationship with Sid the Kid over time, because the captain is still just 26, albeit a somewhat crabby 26. Crosby has the best backhand in the game, but he whiffed on a rebound – and an open net – midway though the first period. Later in the same frame, he took a lead pass on his backhand and appeared to have New York defenseman Marc Staal beaten for a semi-breakaway. Then as Crosby cut quickly to his forehand, losing Staal’s check in the process, he let the puck slide off his stick. It has become a familiar sight in the postseason to see Crosby shaking his head, staring at the ice and moping on his way back to the bench after a failed scoring attempt.Take a random shift in the second period, when Rangers defenseman Anton Stralman sealed off a puck-carrying Evgeni Malkin along the boards. Crosby was circling to Malkin’s right. Then he circled again, turning his back to the play in frustration, allowing the Rangers to leave him and Malkin behind as they started an odd-man rush in the other direction. Not acceptable." http://nhl.si.com/2014/05/14/new-york-rangers-beat-pittsburgh-penguins-game-7/ Thanks Van and Mojo... interesting but I am sure it was nothing... 87 was obsioulsy being misread there Edited May 20, 2014 by murraycraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Thanks Van and Mojo... interesting but I am sure it was nothing... 87 was obsioulsy being misread there When you know what was said or why please post it. Until then, I have to take for granted that the two grown men in a high pressure situation had a heated comment to sort out. If Bylsma's tapping his chest was a "my bad" moment maybe he made a comment to Crosby that was out of line and Crosby snapped about it? Maybe Crosby was pissed off about losing and letting them all know it, as a captain should. Really if THAT is an earth shattering dispute, my wife and I are the ruling monarchs of earth shattering moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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