Crosby is the Problem!

[B21]

@B21

 

We shall call henceforth call the Pens fans' joke "Sid."  

 

So let it be written. So let it be done.

[murraycraven]

And see - this is where Pens fans gets get annoyed....

"The annoyance from most non-Pens fans comes from the way he carries himself."

"....his general miserable appearance..."

Meaning what exactly?

And a reluctance to even believe Crosby does not fart powdered sugar and pee rainbows is exactly the M.O. of a Crosby apologist. If you do not see his constant head shaking, his miserable tone/ bidy language on the bench and plain childish actions (voracheks glove, kicking girardis skates out, cross checking Rask and then trying to do the same to chara,etc,etc...) then there is really no room for debate.

The guy needs to focus in the game and scrap the sideline acts... As a Flyers fan I love it honestly....

[ruxpin]

@murraycraven

What is bidy language? Is this the really slow very loud speech you use to communicate with them or is this a reference to whatever it is they're jabbering about at Bingo?

[murraycraven]

Definitely BINGO rux! Stupid cell phone...

[Polaris922]

And a reluctance to even believe Crosby does not fart powdered sugar and pee rainbows is exactly the M.O. of a Crosby apologist. If you do not see his constant head shaking, his miserable tone/ bidy language on the bench and plain childish actions (voracheks glove, kicking girardis skates out, cross checking Rask and then trying to do the same to chara,etc,etc...) then there is really no room for debate.

The guy needs to focus in the game and scrap the sideline acts... As a Flyers fan I love it honestly....

So what do you call someone who defends Giroux when he disagrees with the officials or responds to someone harassing him on the ice? You act like Crosby does things differently than most other star players, when in fact they ALL do that stuff. They ALL set the stage for the next call, or disagree with officials who blow it.

You call us apologists for not seeing him any differently than any other superstar player. We call you a Crosby "hater" for taking run of the mill hockey stuff and trying to villainize the guy for speaking his mind just like everyone else.

[ruxpin]

I personally hate Crosby when he skates around with the Cup.  What the hell kind of captain does that?

[B21]

And a reluctance to even believe Crosby does not fart powdered sugar and pee rainbows is exactly the M.O. of a Crosby apologist. If you do not see his constant head shaking, his miserable tone/ bidy language on the bench and plain childish actions (voracheks glove, kicking girardis skates out, cross checking Rask and then trying to do the same to chara,etc,etc...) then there is really no room for debate.

The guy needs to focus in the game and scrap the sideline acts... As a Flyers fan I love it honestly....

 

See - you can't have a simple discussion w/o taking a shot. Fart powdered sugar? Not at all offended but it proves a point.

 

Miserable tone? You mean the monotone clichéd responses he gives to reporters' questions...which is just about the same thing every other hockey players does? 

 

(Of course the one time he veered of that course with "I don't like them..." you probably killed him for that, too.)

 

The Rask and Chara "cross checks".  OMG! Players confront each other and exchange words and shoves between periods!  And in a playoff game no less.  How dare they.  Bobby Clarke does that and he a f'ing hero.

 

If you want to make the point that Crosby should just not involve himself in those shenanigans I'll buy that. But to call him out as "childish" for being part of things that happen all the time? Plain ol' hating. 

 

Want more proof? To me, whacking away Giroux's glove is no different than the guys who have taken to squirting an opposing player with their water bottles.  Everyone here has pretty much shrugged those incidents off as "Yeah probably shouldn't do that but it's funny; guys get fined; move along; nothing to see here...."

 

I GUARANTEE you if Crosby did that....well....you know....you just did it.

[brelic]

This thread is a joke. I don't know who Starkey is, but he's an idiot. He gets to watch the best player in the world on a regular basis and he STILL finds fault with him. He sounds an awful lot like the Philly beat reporters at times.

 

You've got a generational talent who has won a Stanley Cup, TWO Olympic gold medals, a gold and silver in junior international play, two Art Ross, a Hart (and likely a second this year), a Rocket Richard trophy, the highest PPG in the NHL, team captain, and he's just TWENTY-SIX years old. He almost single-handedly keeps his team in contention year in and year out despite having second tier players around him.

 

And some people would trade him?????? 

 

I would personally hunt down Hextall if he ever made a trade like that. 

[Polaris922]

@ruxpin

@brelic

Amen.

[murraycraven]

This thread is a joke. I don't know who Starkey is, but he's an idiot. He gets to watch the best player in the world on a regular basis and he STILL finds fault with him. He sounds an awful lot like the Philly beat reporters at times.

 

You've got a generational talent who has won a Stanley Cup, TWO Olympic gold medals, a gold and silver in junior international play, two Art Ross, a Hart (and likely a second this year), a Rocket Richard trophy, the highest PPG in the NHL, team captain, and he's just TWENTY-SIX years old. He almost single-handedly keeps his team in contention year in and year out despite having second tier players around him.

 

And some people would trade him?????? 

 

I would personally hunt down Hextall if he ever made a trade like that. 

 

 

It is not just Starkey anymore Brelic...   Have you watched NHL lately, the game analysts and other reporters are starting to question the same things.

 

@B21 - I am in no way a Crosby "hater" as you like to say when anyone claims anything remotely negative about the man.   I made it pretty clear in a number of posts if you care to research that (a) he is undoubtedly the best player in the world and (b) that I respect him as a Player.   I disliked Messier and Mario yet I think they are some of the best players ever to lace them up.  

 

What I find funny is the blatant love and the "do not wrong" attitude that goes aong w/ your fellow apoligists.   It is pretty simple to me:  if he would focus on the game and less on the BS I think the Pens would be in a different position.   Lately, his stats in the playoffs speak for themselves.

 

It is not hate but solor it anyway you want.   I think you need to go back to the beginning of the year to see how Flyers fans pile on our very own Captain.

[brelic]

It is not just Starkey anymore Brelic...   Have you watched NHL lately, the game analysts and other reporters are starting to question the same things.

 

I'm not saying he's perfect by any means. But anyone who would actually trade away Crosby should be beheaded like Ned Stark. That's an extreme, burn-the-whole-thing down approach that, quite frankly, makes no sense. Does Crosby still have room to grow, mature, and learn? Does he need to find a new way to lead veterans and rookies alike across turbulent times? Absolutely. But that's a far cry from actually trading the best player in a generation because he's only won you ONE Cup, saved the franchise, and basically sold out the arena for like 5 years.

 

@B21 - I am in no way a Crosby "hater" as you like to say when anyone claims anything remotely negative about the man.   I made it pretty clear in a number of posts if you care to research that (a) he is undoubtedly the best player in the world and (b) that I respect him as a Player.   I disliked Messier and Mario yet I think they are some of the best players ever to lace them up.  
 
What I find funny is the blatant love and the "do not wrong" attitude that goes aong w/ your fellow apoligists.   It is pretty simple to me:  if he would focus on the game and less on the BS I think the Pens would be in a different position.   Lately, his stats in the playoffs speak for themselves.
 
It is not hate but solor it anyway you want.   I think you need to go back to the beginning of the year to see how Flyers fans pile on our very own Captain.

 

I haven't seen the Pens fans here as Crosby apologists. They're pretty level-headed about him, actually.

[nossagog]

It is not just Starkey anymore Brelic...   Have you watched NHL lately, the game analysts and other reporters are starting to question the same things.

 

@B21 - I am in no way a Crosby "hater" as you like to say when anyone claims anything remotely negative about the man.   I made it pretty clear in a number of posts if you care to research that (a) he is undoubtedly the best player in the world and (b) that I respect him as a Player.   I disliked Messier and Mario yet I think they are some of the best players ever to lace them up.  

 

What I find funny is the blatant love and the "do not wrong" attitude that goes aong w/ your fellow apoligists.   It is pretty simple to me:  if he would focus on the game and less on the BS I think the Pens would be in a different position.   Lately, his stats in the playoffs speak for themselves.

 

It is not hate but solor it anyway you want.   I think you need to go back to the beginning of the year to see how Flyers fans pile on our very own Captain.

 

Cudo's to you guys.

 

Problem with a lot of Pens fans is that so many things over the years are blown out of proportion that it becomes almost knee jerk sometimes to defend anything that is said about him, because most times it comes from the "mountain from molehill" groups of fans.  

[mojo1917]

The problem... is not helped by the captain acting petulant.

 

the problem as I see it is there is no more Staal, Kennedy and Cooke line.

Backinaday Blysma would put those guys out after a Pens goal , Staal would win the draw and pin the top line from the other team in their d-zone for 50 seconds, completely frustrating the "pushback" then... when it's time for a change here comes Malkin or Crosby's line over the boards to keep the pressure on and maybe score again... that depth, that ability to completely stifle a teams top line got to the point where it would be demoralizing, i remember seeing it happen a lot...

 

people can say Sutter this and Staal was lazy Pig faced rat boy never hit the net..., but the fact is the Pens haven't won **** since those guys have moved on.  

 

That's the problem, Sidney's poor body language and questionable leadership skills and abilities don't help remedy the situation either.He's a fabulous player but he is not a great leader.

[Polaris922]

It is not just Starkey anymore Brelic... Have you watched NHL lately, the game analysts and other reporters are starting to question the same things.

@B21 - I am in no way a Crosby "hater" as you like to say when anyone claims anything remotely negative about the man. I made it pretty clear in a number of posts if you care to research that (a) he is undoubtedly the best player in the world and (b) that I respect him as a Player. I disliked Messier and Mario yet I think they are some of the best players ever to lace them up.

What I find funny is the blatant love and the "do not wrong" attitude that goes aong w/ your fellow apoligists. It is pretty simple to me: if he would focus on the game and less on the BS I think the Pens would be in a different position. Lately, his stats in the playoffs speak for themselves.

It is not hate but solor it anyway you want. I think you need to go back to the beginning of the year to see how Flyers fans pile on our very own Captain.

You can acknowledge a man's skill but still be a hater. Crosby does the same things your very own captain does as far as jawing and yacking at refs and the players that harass him. But it's somehow childish when Crosby does it but not when Giroux does? Or Getzlaf? Or Zetterberg? Or any number of other captains in the league?

@B21 is 100% correct in pointing out the difference we'd have seen if Crosby had squirted Lundqvist with water. Many here would be tearing him apart.

That's bias. Prejudice. "Hating". We're used to it from a lot of places. When you lace a post with finger pointing without specific cause or analysis, subtle insults and degrading remarks about the man rather than the issue, the validity of anything else posted remains tainted.

That's more the norm than not, here and in the brain trust analysts. Don't tell me it was on Crosby to do better. Tell me what exactly he did that cost us the series. He didn't score? What else could he have done that we didn't see him do? He was in a dispute in game 5? How did that really hurt the series? Tell me why it didn't help the Pens' cause.

You call it apologizing for him. I call it demanding a person be able to justify an accusation with facts and analysis. Something I haven't seen yet from bonehead Starkey or anyone else saying it all falls on him.

[brelic]

the problem as I see it is there is no more Staal, Kennedy and Cooke line.

 

Good point mojo. I would add Talbot to that list. 

 

They lost the good sandpaper and didn't really replace it.

[B21]

This thread is a joke. I don't know who Starkey is, but he's an idiot. He gets to watch the best player in the world on a regular basis and he STILL finds fault with him. He sounds an awful lot like the Philly beat reporters at times.

 

You've got a generational talent who has won a Stanley Cup, TWO Olympic gold medals, a gold and silver in junior international play, two Art Ross, a Hart (and likely a second this year), a Rocket Richard trophy, the highest PPG in the NHL, team captain, and he's just TWENTY-SIX years old. He almost single-handedly keeps his team in contention year in and year out despite having second tier players around him.

 

And some people would trade him?????? 

 

I would personally hunt down Hextall if he ever made a trade like that. 

 

Starkey's actually pretty good. He has the PM drive time slot on the local sports talk here.  He's pretty fair but when his opinion "leans" one way it generally favors the local team.

 

The day before he wrote that article he went off on a short but passionate tirade about Crosby on the air.  I'm not saying I agree with him but I do respect his opinion.

 

His opinion is just a little too strong (and off) in this case.

[mojo1917]

Good point mojo. I would add Talbot to that list. 

 

They lost the good sandpaper and didn't really replace it.

So I guess I've come full circle, and have to say Rejean screwed the pooch and deserved his firing.

 

i like him though and don't  think he'll be out of work long if his desire is to continue as a professional hockey man.

[B21]

It is not just Starkey anymore Brelic...   Have you watched NHL lately, the game analysts and other reporters are starting to question the same things.

 

@B21 - I am in no way a Crosby "hater" as you like to say when anyone claims anything remotely negative about the man.   I made it pretty clear in a number of posts if you care to research that (a) he is undoubtedly the best player in the world and (b) that I respect him as a Player.   I disliked Messier and Mario yet I think they are some of the best players ever to lace them up.  

 

What I find funny is the blatant love and the "do not wrong" attitude that goes aong w/ your fellow apoligists.   It is pretty simple to me:  if he would focus on the game and less on the BS I think the Pens would be in a different position.   Lately, his stats in the playoffs speak for themselves.

 

It is not hate but solor it anyway you want.   I think you need to go back to the beginning of the year to see how Flyers fans pile on our very own Captain.

 

Would an apologist put him as the #2 reason as to why the Pens failed this post-season (after Bylsma)?  I did.

 

Would an apologist scathingly criticize his behavior after the Flyers series in 2012?  I did.

 

You are right.  His stats do speak for themselves and in the playoffs the last two years they have not been good. So why does the criticism have to go beyond that?

 

Why does this alleged poor posture and facial expressions have to mean there is a bigger problem with his attitude and leadership?

 

Sorry but to me that is just making shite up along with nitpicking things that happen all the time in an effort to take the guy down another notch for no relevant reason.

[B21]

Cudo's to you guys.

 

Problem with a lot of Pens fans is that so many things over the years are blown out of proportion that it becomes almost knee jerk sometimes to defend anything that is said about him, because most times it comes from the "mountain from molehill" groups of fans.  

 

Excellent observation. 

 

A good many posters have cried wolf on him too many times.  If every...little...thing he did up until now wasn't (overly) criticized a lot more posters would have a lot more credibility when it comes to the opinions and analysis of Crosby.

[B21]

Good point mojo. I would add Talbot to that list. 

 

They lost the good sandpaper and didn't really replace it.

 

@mojo1917

@brelic

 

Agree on Talbot and Cooke (gasp!).  I think they did OK on Sutter replacing Staal. Kennedy - only if you think he would have remained relevant here.  He's fallen off the face of the earth in San Jose.

[radoran]

Excellent observation. 

 

A good many posters have cried wolf on him too many times.  If every...little...thing he did up until now wasn't (overly) criticized a lot more posters would have a lot more credibility when it comes to the opinions and analysis of Crosby.

 

I just want to say that I do believe that Pens' fans reactions in this thread have been MUCH BETTER than we would likely have seen if a Pens fan had put "GIROUX IS THE PROBLEM!" on the Flyers forum.

 

Kudos, guys.

[mojo1917]

@mojo1917

@brelic

 

Agree on Talbot and Cooke (gasp!).  I think they did OK on Sutter replacing Staal. Kennedy - only if you think he would have remained relevant here.  He's fallen off the face of the earth in San Jose.

i think that line was better than the sum of its parts,  just like the way lenio, briere and hartnell were for the flyers a couple years ago.

Kennedy has some wheels and was excellent on the forecheck and had excellent puck pursuit, Cooke well he's a douche but he has some speed and for whatever reason played well with Staal and Kennedy.

I hated that line but admired the way they kept the pressure up, they would start buzzing around the offensive zone and would just wear bitches out.  there is nothing like that on the last 3 versions of the Penguins.  the top two lines are good to great but there is no threat beyond that.

 

i still stand by my assertion of Crosby's brain injury changing him for the worse.  Time will sadly tell on that, but I will concede he alone is not why the Penguins do not win the Stanley Cup every year.  It is folly to think any team should win the cup every year, maybe a team can but to win that trophy is the most difficult thing to do in professional team sports.

[nossagog]

i think that line was better than the sum of its parts,  just like the way lenio, briere and hartnell were for the flyers a couple years ago.

Kennedy has some wheels and was excellent on the forecheck and had excellent puck pursuit, Cooke well he's a douche but he has some speed and for whatever reason played well with Staal and Kennedy.

I hated that line but admired the way they kept the pressure up, they would start buzzing around the offensive zone and would just wear bitches out.  there is nothing like that on the last 3 versions of the Penguins.  the top two lines are good to great but there is no threat beyond that.

 

i still stand by my assertion of Crosby's brain injury changing him for the worse.  Time will sadly tell on that, but I will concede he alone is not why the Penguins do not win the Stanley Cup every year.  It is folly to think any team should win the cup every year, maybe a team can but to win that trophy is the most difficult thing to do in professional team sports.

 

Couple of things from several posts and threads. 

 

The Pens over the past few years, have become less and less physical a team as they were in the cup years.   As much as people hated him, Matt Cooke made life miserable on other teams stars, who fills that roll now? The Pens used to have a third line that was grit, who went out and played physical on the other teams top line. Cooke and ManBearPig went out and banged away.  They took it to the OTHER teams top line.   And they had a fourth line headed by Max Talbot, who was very the same, and came in at times to protect Crosby and Malkin from the other teams "grit" line.

 

The Pens grinders the past few years have NOT had that edge, other than Glass, there is no one down there who can be said to cause the other team pain.  That's a big thing for a team.  They've tried to get faster on the bottom 6, and have forfeited their toughness. 

 

I was very dissappointed in DFB during both series that he did not dress Engellend on the fourth line to take care of some of the stuff that was being done to Crosby.  Look at the cross checks he endured from Dubinsky, and then Staal basically using his head in games to crosscheck and elbow.   I've said in another thread that in general this playoff season, I've seen so much stick work and crosschecks, its like the NHL doesn't care any longer.   Did any one else see Suban blatently cross check the player on the ice in the head with about two minutes left in the game last night? And not even a mention on the broadcast  And there is NO outrage from the NHL, Players or Announcers, even with all the concussion stuff.  Someone like Engellend should have been in the lineup to return the favor upon them.  If the officials are not going to call this stuff, so be it, let's jump in the pool too.   

 

I said this in another thread early in the series after the one Staal incident where he crosschecked Crosby in the head.  Could you imagine what would have happened to Staal if he was playing the Oiler's back in the day, and he'd have done that to Gretzky?

 

The Pens miss that,   Cooke would have done something, maybe legal, maybe not .  Talbot would have done something, the old Orpik would have done something.  You can't allow players to simply abuse your stars.   Crosby held his temper much better this year than in past ones, but he shouldn't have to. The Pens need to fix the bottom six by adding grit, not speed. (By the way, crossing over to another thread, imagine if they could unload Letang and Orpik, the money they would have for a powerfoward to play with Crosby who would throw his weight around.)

[brelic]

It is folly to think any team should win the cup every year, maybe a team can but to win that trophy is the most difficult thing to do in professional team sports.

 

Exactly. Chicago's doing a might fine job, though. It would be easy to say that Toews is a better leader than Crosby - such things are always easy to assert when it's going well.

 

But trade Chicago's defense for Pittsburgh's, and there ain't no Cup in Chicago, and at least one more in Pittsburgh.

[murraycraven]

@ Polaris:

 

 

 

I have never said it is all on Crosby. In fact I agree w/ you and have written about 87 playing hard and pressing this series. Shero is the guy I think deserves the blame and think he was completely overrated. Bylsma should be blamed too and he is as good as toast anyway. To me the problems are taken care of for the most part.

 

There is work to be done when it comes to the new GM but I think your Cap situation is grossly over exaggerated. You can resign and bring in pieces so it is not like they are just going to disappear.

 

Being the Captain of an NHL Team is like being a NFL QB - when you win you are highly regarded and when you lose you are over-scrutinized. Ask Mike Richards, Giroux, 88, etc...! It is the way of the world and the only way to stop the 2nd guessing about his leadership is to go out and do it on the ice. Personally, I could care less what he does b/c there will always be drama that follows him - essentially, it is pretty lonely on top and people will always be looking for something. I respect the hell out of his ability and he could be pulling circus tricks on the ice and I would still think he is the best.

 

Scrutinizing any player (Corsby to Rinaldo to Hall to Cooke) is part of the game and frankly there is nothing wrong with it. Speaking about my experience most of my friendly Pens fans can't tolerate anything bad being said about Sid - anything. We get it - he is a GREAT player but there is not a single player that is or should be free from scrutiny amongst fanbases.

Edited May 20, 2014 by murraycraven