Is VLC really that bad?

[Mad Dog]

@CoachX

 

 As pointed out, we needed a center like a hole in the head.

 

Ironically, we *may* be having that issue when the next season rolls in.  Given VLC's failed experiment and the fact that B Schenn is not showing me that he is a good center, as of this moment, the Flyers don't really have a legit #2 center, unfortunately.

[murraycraven]

Ironically, we *may* be having that issue when the next season rolls in.  Given VLC's failed experiment and the fact that B Schenn is not showing me that he is a good center, as of this moment, the Flyers don't really have a legit #2 center, unfortunately.

 

 

Honestly MD I have said this before.  I would not be shocked one bit if VLC is the starting 2nd line center next year and B Schenn is traded...

[ruxpin]

could he be an effective 4th line center? That appeared to work pretty well

Hi coach

Yeah, I guess if we can't move him that's where I'd put him.

Really, though, you just can't have that kind of money sitting on the fourth line when we have such pressing needs at wing and at defense. The sixth round pick that was mentioned sounds absurd but I would take it.

I appreciate some of what you've said on this thread, but cap completely aside I think he's actually a lousy fit in the fourth line. I think if he's healthy and playing well then maybe he does create a bit of a line matching issue for other coaches, but he does nothing for me in terms of energy since he floats for large percentages of time that he's out there.

The 9th in scoring maybe should but doesn't really impress me. I understand the argument that he was injured and playing out of position but that both circumstances are only going to continue unless we're moving Schenn out to make room for an old oft-injured way overpaid floater. Second, 9th out of 18 is utterly replaceable.

So if we are stuck with him, I'd stick him on the fourth line and have him be possibly the most overpaid fourth line center in the history of the game (could be hyperbole; I haven't researched this and have no idea).

If I can move him for a subscription to the braille version of Playboy, I do it. It opens both cap space for more pressing needs and a roster spot for someone who might play like he gives a crap.

Lastly, when I type VLC into my phone it suggests "sucks" as the very next word. Who am I to argue with Android?

[doom88]

He's not nearly that bad, but some fans need someone to fixate their hate on.  Give it another week and it'll be back to Hartnell/Coburn/AMac/LSchenn.

 

His contract is a little high, but it's not that bad when you put it back into relative terms.  The cap is projected to be 71.1M next season.  4.5M / 71.1M = 6.3%  Not great, but it's not that bad.  I think it's movable.  I also think some people are fixating on the numbers without context.  Back when the cap was around 50M, that was much much worse.

 

For reference, Giroux @ 8.275M = 11.6%

[Polaris922]

I think the fact that his contract and performance are still being steadily lambasted after almost an entire year tell the story.

[ruxpin]

He's not nearly that bad, but some fans need someone to fixate their hate on. Give it another week and it'll be back to Hartnell/Coburn/AMac/LSchenn.

His contract is a little high, but it's not that bad when you put it back into relative terms. The cap is projected to be 71.1M next season. 4.5M / 71.1M = 6.3% Not great, but it's not that bad. I think it's movable. I also think some people are fixating on the numbers without context. Back when the cap was around 50M, that was much much worse.

For reference, Giroux @ 8.275M = 11.6%

Are you saying we're incapable of hating more than one player at a time? Are you new here?

[Vanflyer]

He's not nearly that bad, but some fans need someone to fixate their hate on.  Give it another week and it'll be back to Hartnell/Coburn/AMac/LSchenn.

 

Actually he is that bad. At least within context to the Flyers system / style of play. His 5-on-5 play is just atrocious. -16 for the regular season and -5 for the playoffs. Face off pctg at 43%. He doesn't hit / use his size to any advantage. Its a mammoth square peg in a round hole thing. Why homer thought we needed another center is beyond me. Put him on a western conference team where there is more free flow skating and perhaps he will do okay. On a pound and ground eastern style team, he wilts. 

[ruxpin]

Actually he is that bad. At least within context to the Flyers system / style of play. His 5-on-5 play is just atrocious. -16 for the regular season and -5 for the playoffs. Face off pctg at 43%. He doesn't hit / use his size to any advantage. Its a mammoth square peg in a round hole thing. Why homer thought we needed another center is beyond me. Put him on a western conference team where there is more free flow skating and perhaps he will do okay. On a pound and ground eastern style team, he wilts.

I get what you're saying and agree in some respects, but does he skate fast enough for the western conference? I just could see him not being able to keep up with the play.

[aziz]

His contract is a little high, but it's not that bad when you put it back into relative terms. The cap is projected to be 71.1M next season. 4.5M / 71.1M = 6.3% Not great, but it's not that bad. I think it's movable.

It IS that bad, especially when you put it into relative terms. $4.5mil for, what was it, 37 points? Plus the line - building complications he brings? That's awful. And he doesn't bring any of the intangibles that a Hartnell does. He's a finesse scorer that doesn't score much.

He's tradeable, but not to a team with cap concerns. His cap hit is in no way justified by his value to the team. A team running comfortably below the cap can look at his history and experience and see something worth the money expenditure there... But a team looking to fit a roster right under the ceiling, VLC is a really undesirable player/contract.

[doom88]

I'm not saying his last season was worth the money. It wasn't.

I am saying that it's not the end of the world.

@ruxpin just saying the hate gets focused and passed around. Mine is currently reserved for Grossmann.

[Vanflyer]

I get what you're saying and agree in some respects, but does he skate fast enough for the western conference? I just could see him not being able to keep up with the play.

 

I guess I was just thinking that he could get away with only playing 100ft of the ice easier in the West than the east. 

[doom88]

It IS that bad, especially when you put it into relative terms. $4.5mil for, what was it, 37 points? Plus the line - building complications he brings? That's awful. And he doesn't bring any of the intangibles that a Hartnell does. He's a finesse scorer that doesn't score much.

He's tradeable, but not to a team with cap concerns. His cap hit is in no way justified by his value to the team. A team running comfortably below the cap can look at his history and experience and see something worth the money expenditure there... But a team looking to fit a roster right under the ceiling, VLC is a really undesirable player/contract.

I was trying to show he's not half the entire cap. The problem is, the Flyers have too many "not that bad" contracts. THAT'S where the cap issue really comes into play.

I don't think he's as bad as he was last season. He had to be playing hurt, when available. No way can a guy regress that badly that quickly. Not to mention the game situations he played and TOI. Stats don't magically appear, but he certainly didn't earn his ice time either.

I think one pass is okay, but two and GTFO.

[Vanflyer]

A team running comfortably below the cap can look at his history and experience and see something worth the money expenditure there..

 

Hello Nashville. If I am the Flyers, I am calling Poile day and night. Of course VLC has to want to be a Country Bumpkin. But heck, if he can spend his career in Tampa, Nashville should fit like a warm glove. Plus he could get to play first of second fiddle there (they have nobody else). I would be calling Nashville and saying VLC and a 2nd for future considerations. 

[Vanflyer]

Mine is currently reserved for Grossmann.

 

Really?- I like Grossman for what he is (better than Gill). Also, I have to give him props for playing on a nearly broken ankle last 10th of the season and into the playoffs. 

[ruxpin]

I'm not saying his last season was worth the money. It wasn't.

I am saying that it's not the end of the world.

@ruxpin just saying the hate gets focused and passed around. Mine is currently reserved for Grossmann.

Yeah, I knew what you were saying. Just being goofy. Disagree a bit about VLC sucks but you're absolutely right about the hate being focused and passed around thing.

I get the Grossman thing too. In regard to him though, he's about what I expected so that mitigates the "hate" a bit for me.

[doom88]

Grossmann just isn't good enough anymore. I don't think it's a fluke. It's not his fault as a man, but the player is toast.

Lauridsen should have played this season, with Gill sporadically rotating in to keep guys fresh.

[jammer2]

  What if VLC does not want to leave?  Can we shame him into leaving?  Negative reporters, angry fans, a warm inviting pressbox....this could get ugly!!!

[radoran]

Actually he is that bad. At least within context to the Flyers system / style of play. His 5-on-5 play is just atrocious. -16 for the regular season and -5 for the playoffs. Face off pctg at 43%. He doesn't hit / use his size to any advantage. Its a mammoth square peg in a round hole thing. Why homer thought we needed another center is beyond me. Put him on a western conference team where there is more free flow skating and perhaps he will do okay. On a pound and ground eastern style team, he wilts. 

 

Been over this elsewhere, but...

 

Hasn't played a full season in five years. Didn't even play the full lockout season. It's not "this year" with the injury, it's the last four.

 

His PPG isn't that bad overall, but he's going to miss 15-20 games and be "getting his legs back" in at least, say, a dozen more. He can/wants to only play center and with that contract has to be on the top two lines.

 

Guys typically don't turn around their careers at 34, and there are still four more years on this contract.

 

That's not "hate." Them's facts.

[jammer2]

   Not that the Preds centers are elite, but I honestly don't see VLC beating out Mike Fisher or Craig Smith (who at *least* works hard and gives a consistent effort) for second line Preds center. That puts him on a non scoring line, or as we say...a square peg in a round hole....VLC will just never be a efficient checking line center. Being a checking line center requires ....you know, showing up for games and such. That puts him right back to the same spot he is in with Philly, not talented enough for the top 2, and not enough jam for the bottom 2. I suspect that will be the case with every team he comes into contact with....there is simply no team in the league with 2 centers who are worse than VLC at this point of his career. We are stuck with this stiff.....shame him I say!!!!

[ruxpin]

I don't mean the compliance buyout, that ship sailed (to deep space).

How does the regular buyout work (does it still exist) and is it plausible.

Any possibility the KHL offers him a contract? He's way too young for the Czech national team.

[radoran]

I don't mean the compliance buyout, that ship sailed (to deep space).

How does the regular buyout work (does it still exist) and is it plausible.

Any possibility the KHL offers him a contract? He's way too young for the Czech national team.

 

http://www.capgeek.com/buyout-calculator/?player_id=884

 

TEXT CAP HIT BREAKDOWN (for copying and pasting)

Vincent Lecavalier buyout from CapGeek.com

• 2014-15: $1,500,000
• 2015-16: $3,000,000
• 2016-17: $3,000,000
• 2017-18: $2,500,000
• 2018-19: $1,000,000
• 2019-20: $1,000,000
• 2020-21: $1,000,000
• 2021-22: $1,000,000

Is there a record for player paid to most money not to play for a team? And, if so, could any other team than the Flyers be the biggest if they do this?

[jammer2]

  Maybe the Flyers can just flash some cash. Pay a KHL team 20 mill to take VLC, then supply the money for his KHL contract....another 20 mill for 3 years or so and just give him permission for him to break his NHL contract....they ponied up 50 mill to make Bryz go away...and this is almost as bad....buy your way out Ed!!!  Maybe VLC will suck so bad, the KHL team will pay him not to play also, giving Vinny the go away trifecta!!!

[ruxpin]

VLC sucks will make $14M a year to NOT play for 4 teams. Awesome plan

[ruxpin]

@jammer2 I like your idea. Lou Lamourillo may have already used it

[jammer2]

@ruxpin  At least Kovy is a legit 40 goal guy, VLC might not make the KHL team, blowing the plan to smithereens.