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Fixing The Pens - My Plan


B21
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This is based - in part - on what I would do and what I think the Pens will do.  Feel free to debate who stays, goes, salaries, etc.

 

There has been a lot of talk of trades but I have a feeling that we will see little - if anything - in the way of trades.  The players most often mentioned are Letang and Neal and to a lesser extent, Fleury.

 

I don't see Letang getting traded for several reasons.  I think he has a fair contract based on past performance and future expectations. However, with his health issues I need to see a productive 75-80 game season out of him before I trade for a contract like that. I also don't think the Pens feel his deal is a "mistake". Even if they did - they aren't admitting it before the deal even kicks in (via trade).  Personally, I would not trade him.

 

Forward is where the Pens lack depth so trading Neal does not make sense. Top 6 are set but there is not much behind them.  A writer (I think it was Starkey) mentioned Neal for Evander Kane straight up. No point in trading one imperfect player for another.

 

If Shero were still GM I could see the Pens dangling Sutter in another play for Kesler. Alas...

 

I keep Fleury.  If he implodes (regular or post season) then he walks as a free agent and you bring in a serviceable veteran to bridge the gap until (hopefully) a Jarry or Hartzell are ready.  If Fleury has a year as good as this past year or better? Well - that's a nice problem to have.

 

Who do I let walk?  Jokinen. Stempniak, Goc. Pyatt. Glass. Conner. Orpik. Engelland. Vokoun.

 

Current free agents I keep and at what salary? Sutter (RFA - 2,700,000). Depres (RFA - 850,500).  Vitale (650,000). Gibbons (650,000). Niskanen (5,500,000).  All 1-2 year deals except Niskanen who gets 5 years at 5,500,000 per.

 

What new free agents do I try to sign?  The fun part. The edict from Mario and Burkle is grit and character.  Also, get younger.  I agree. I also think the Pens need to get more physical which, to an extent, often means bigger.  The Rangers out-"gritted" the Pens so I am going to poach them for a few of my acquisitions....

 

-- Benoit Pouliot - LW - Age 28 - 6'3 - 199 - @ 1,300,000 - Offer 1,800,000 for 2 years....

-- Brian Boyle - C - Age 29 - 6'7 - 244 - @1,700,000 - Offer 1,750,000 for 2 years...

-- Devin Setoguchi - RW - Age 27 - 6'2 - 205 - @3,000,000 - Offer 3,000,000 for 3 years (though I think he can be had for less)...

 

Boyle adds size, grit and character to a small 4th line.  Pouliot and Setoguchi play on the 3rd line with Sutter. Again....gritty character guys.  Setoguchi has some scoring ability. Certainly enough for a spot on the 3rd line.

 

Last but not least - I give Scott Harrington a chance to earn a top 6 spot.  By all accounts he's ready.

 

So ladies and germs - your 2014-15 Pittsburgh Penguins. Total Cap Payroll: 69,663,390 (it's tight - I know. Always will be.)

 

Kunitz / Crosby  Dupuis

Neal / Malkin / Bennett

Pouliot / Sutter / Setoguchi

Adams / Boyle / Vitale

(Gibbons)

 

Letang / Martin

Maatta / Niskanen

Depres / Harrington

(Bortuzzo)

 

Fleury

(Zatkoff)

 

Edit: Buyout Scuderi.

 

His cap hits for the next 6 seasons....

 

430,556

1,430,556

1,930,556

1,055,556 (3)

Edited by B21
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  I like the idea of keeping Fleury as a stop gap for Tristan Jerry or Hartzell. It makes sense. One other play would be to make a move for Chad Johnson and saving being exposed to growing pains that a young goalie will inevitably give you....that way, the best of the young tenders could learn the ropes as a back up playing cherry picked games to build his confidence. It would suck to block the way for Jerry or the other prospects, but it would give you the best chance to win right away.

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Who do I let walk?  Jokinen. Stempniak, Goc. Pyatt. Glass. Conner. Orpik. Engelland. Vokoun.

 

Really?? I have to say that is a stunning statement (on Jokinen). He might need a bump in his pay scale and want 2 or 3 years, but the guy exceeded expectations for his pay grade imo. Reg season- 21g / 36a / 57 pts, / +12 and 4 game winning goals; Playoffs- 7g / 3a / 10 pts (2nd on the team behind malkin) / +5 and 3 game winning goals (led the team). All that for a paltry 3m a year. Also, he does not hinder the team in taking stupid penalties. 

 

One mans trash is another mans treasure and I would gladly welcome him to the Flyers at that cap hit. 

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  I like the idea of keeping Fleury as a stop gap for Tristan Jerry or Hartzell. It makes sense. One other play would be to make a move for Chad Johnson and saving being exposed to growing pains that a young goalie will inevitably give you....that way, the best of the young tenders could learn the ropes as a back up playing cherry picked games to build his confidence. It would suck to block the way for Jerry or the other prospects, but it would give you the best chance to win right away.

 

Not a bad idea.  I do think they'll need a veteran to get from the end of Fleury's deal (after this season) to Jarry or Hartzell.  If the decision is to let Fleury walk I don't think either would be ready next year. Maybe Hartzell.  Certainly not Jarry.

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Really?? I have to say that is a stunning statement (on Jokinen). He might need a bump in his pay scale and want 2 or 3 years, but the guy exceeded expectations for his pay grade imo. Reg season- 21g / 36a / 57 pts, / +12 and 4 game winning goals; Playoffs- 7g / 3a / 10 pts (2nd on the team behind malkin) / +5 and 3 game winning goals (led the team). All that for a paltry 3m a year. Also, he does not hinder the team in taking stupid penalties. 

 

One mans trash is another mans treasure and I would gladly welcome him to the Flyers at that cap hit. 

 

Simple.  He'll command at least $3,750,000 - $4,000,000 (I think) as a F/A and he blocks Bennett.  Bennett is not a 3rd line winger (DO YOU HEAR ME, DFB?!?!) and...neither is Jokinen.  Nothing against Jussi - I just have an in house option with more upside, who is 9 years younger and who has a cap hit that at the end of the day could be $3,000,000 less.  Paying two 30+ wingers for the next 2-3 years (Kunitz and Dupuis) is enough. ;)

 

Grittier.  Younger.  Cheaper.  Jussi doesn't fit any.

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What I find a little baffling about their situation is that they just fired their GM and almost the coach (and still might if that's what the new GM wants). The coach and GM didn't cough up a 3-1 series lead, the players did. That's about as big as an on-ice failure as you can get. That has nothing to do with the coach or front office, that's directly on the players.

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What I find a little baffling about their situation is that they just fired their GM and almost the coach (and still might if that's what the new GM wants). The coach and GM didn't cough up a 3-1 series lead, the players did. That's about as big as an on-ice failure as you can get. That has nothing to do with the coach or front office, that's directly on the players.

There's a bigger picture though. It IS on a coach if the coach uses poor line combinations and makes no adjustment to the opponents tactics. And it IS on the GM if the owners feel the coach wasn't given the right players to put it together. In this case Lemieux strongly feels Shero let key pieces walk away. Maybe that was Cooke or Morrow, or both and Murray. I don't know. But Lemieux is unhappy. And one thing I've learned is Mario, though a very gifted hockey player, is also a very gifted intellectual. He didnt like something, and I trust his judgement.

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@B21 Interesting thoughts, couple of issues.

1) I don't think that they can buy out Scuds, so we're stuck with him unless we can trade him.

2) I'm hoping that the next GM will be better at BUILDING a team, not renting a team. So draft picks are going to be valuable. To that point we cannot let players with work simply walk away. This means Martin and Fleury this year, if they are NOT in the long term future, need to be moved NOW when they have worth to improve the long term prospects of the team, and not just lose them at the end of next year. Look at this year, Orpik had value and we're going to let him walk for nothing(maybe someone will give us a 3rd or something for the rights to him before the deadline, not good enough)

3) Despres, If DFB stays, he goes. I don't know why but he has never been given a real shot with DFB, For Despres' sake,

4) Defensively, we're not tough enough at all. Letang, Matta and Martin are great puck moving defensemen, but they have a hard time moving players from in front of Fleury. Niskanen, same thing. This is one of the reasons I think either Letang or Martin are going to go. Move Bort up, Keep Engellend as the fifth so that we can have a more physical presence at the blue line. Despres can step in soon if we can find someone to take up Scuds contract. Give Harrington another year to season.

5) DFB! The system needs to change. We need a stand up defense that will NOT back in at our blue line. We need a breakout that DOESN'T depend on stretch passes by the defense. And he just has a very BAD way of treating young players, he simply cannot coach them(Matta is the exception, not the rule).

With rostered players, we have about $15M of cap space play with. So, in the end, my suggestions:

Try to move Letang now before his limited NMC kicks in(Savings $7.25M/year, and resign Niskanen to a 3-5 year deal. $5.5 is way too much, he's had a great year, but I'd say more in the $4M/year range, if he wants more, thanks for your time. Also, resign Engellend for a minimal raise, maybe to $1M a year, we need his physical play. I really like Tanger, but I never thought the contract was good, especially now with the whole stroke thing)

Possible defense:

Martin-Despres(He's ready DFB, he's ready)

Niskanen-Matta

Bortozzo-Engellend/Scuds(Sorry, I just don't think we'll find a taker for Scuds, and Engellend was not a defensive liability and provides physical play)

Niskanen/Bort/Scuds can rotate in on the PK. Martin/Matta the first pairing on the PP

By moving Letang and resigning Engellend/Niskanen, Pens save about $2.25M. Which will give me about $17.25M to fill in the 6 forward roles.

On Offense, I'd try to retain Goc, I think he's a servicable fourth line center who can also eat up PK minutes.

Kunitz-Crosby-

Neal-Malkin-Bennet Line set no additional cost

Megna-Sutter-Dupuis Offer Sutter $3M,megna will probably be $1.25M

Adams-Goc- HarryZ Offer Goc $2M a year,$800K

Hummm, I spent $7M, which leaves me $10.25M in cap space. Hummmmmm, what could I do with that? I still have $10M to spend on a top line winger and a bottom like physical presence.

Top PP would be Malkin-Crosby-Kunitz/Sid'snewwing Matta-Martin 2nd unit Neal-Sutter-Bennet Niskanen-Despres

PK would be Sutter-Dupuis-Goc-Adams

I'd rather see them move Adams, he's too old and we need more physicality, but he has pictures of DFB that keeps him in the lineup.

So in the end by moving Letang, the Pens COULD afford a top line wing for Crosby, and add another physical presence on the fourth line.

Oh yeah, did I mention that we need to get rid of DFB.

Edited by nossagog
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 I am not a fan (at all) of Setoguchi, and would absolutely keep Jokinen before him, at all costs. Jokinen seemed to have developed a very nice chemistry with Malkin. No way do I break that up.

  I also would look hard at keeping Stempniak instead of adding Boyle. I think he showed flashes last year after coming over from Calgary.

 

  The main player I would dangle would be Neal. I would seriously consider dealing Neal for a top nine, preferably top six forward and a top four defenseman. With the cap situation you are going to be up against and the payday due to Niskanen the odds are he gets away. Someone is going to WAY overpay. He is a solid player, I really like him but he picked the absolute right time for a career year.

  Without him the defense is certainly not championship quality. Then factor in Orpik moving on and Letang's health a top four d-man is going to be a must. Obviously if I am wrong and Niskanen stays that changes everything, but my opinion is he is gone, too many teams with money and a need for a blueliner and not enough d-men available.

  Teams I would consider dealing with:

Predators for Josi and a forward.

Canucks for Kessler and Edler. Obvious salary back the other way, Scuderi who cannot be bought out going in the deal.

Coyotes for Yandle.

The Ducks have a plethora of young d-men and forwards. One of each.

 

  No way would I deal him within the division.

 

  Essentially with the (IMHO) inevitable loss of Niskanen Neal being dangled to fill the hole, possibly even upgrade the defense and a solid forward back while keeping Jokinen to continue his solid play with Malkin.

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@nossasgog

 

Good post!

 

Couple counter-points...

 

We can buy out Scuderi.  It's just not a compliance buy-out.  The buy-out cap hit for 14-15 is less than 500K.  It goes up after that (presumably so does the cap) then back down.  That's money used to keep Niskanen.  Scuderi just looked older/slower come playoff time and he doesn't bring that physicality the Pens need (neither does my "plan" but I do get it on the 3rd and 4th lines).

 

Megna/Sutter/Dupuis is too soft a 3rd line for me. Ditto a 4th of Adams/Goc/Harry Z.  Just me but I want more size, grit and character.  I've had enough of Engelland, too.  Goc is OK.  I just really want more turnover from the bottom six.

 

I'd be happy with 2 out 3 among Martin, Letang and Niskanen.  I just don't see Letang being movable "right now". Martin and Fleury even less so. Maybe a 2nd round pick for each at best?  That says "packing it in" to me.  If Martin and Fleury leave at the end of the season I look at it as trading them for whaver we use that money for.  No big extensions are going to be needed after 2015 so that's money to use in the F/A market.

 

If Andy MacDonald is getting $5,000,000 per year then Matt Niskanen is getting at least that much. ;)   Any agent worth his salt is going to point across the state at that contract as a benchmark.  Don't get me wrong - I'd love to get him for less. Don't see it happeneing.  27 year old defencemen get paid after career years like that.

 

Agree 100% on Pepto Bylsma.  I would also change coaches.

 

I'm not against the idea of freeing up cap space for a top 6 winger (via Letang trade, Martin trade or Fleury trade) .  There just aren't any I want.  I want a winger under 30; preferable a grit/character guy.  Moulson maybe? I know I don't want to pay Vanek $7,000,000 for There isn't much else out there worth doing what it would need to do to free up cap space.  I'll roll with the top 6 we have and focus on the bottom 6.

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Here's a crazy thought. There's more chatter that the Kings should strongly consider buying out Mike Richards.

 

If there was ever a place he could go that would totally stick it to the Flyers and put him - once again - in an instant position to win the Cup, it would be Pittsburgh. 

 

He would be awesome and cheap as a 3rd line center with grit and experience for the Pens. I think he's the kind of depth veteran the Pens are missing.

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@nossasgog

 

Megna/Sutter/Dupuis is too soft a 3rd line for me. Ditto a 4th of Adams/Goc/Harry Z.  Just me but I want more size, grit and character.  I've had enough of Engelland, too.  Goc is OK.  I just really want more turnover from the bottom six.

 

If Andy MacDonald is getting $5,000,000 per year then Matt Niskanen is getting at least that much. ;)   Any agent worth his salt is going to point across the state at that contract as a benchmark.  Don't get me wrong - I'd love to get him for less. Don't see it happeneing.  27 year old defencemen get paid after career years like that.

 

 

I'm not against the idea of freeing up cap space for a top 6 winger (via Letang trade, Martin trade or Fleury trade) .  There just aren't any I want.  I want a winger under 30; preferable a grit/character guy.  Moulson maybe? I know I don't want to pay Vanek $7,000,000 for There isn't much else out there worth doing what it would need to do to free up cap space.  I'll roll with the top 6 we have and focus on the bottom 6.

@B21 Agree on both Scuds and Adams,  I just think with DFB there, Adams is  going no where.

 

I don't see the problem with Engellend, he provides a much needed physicality to the team, and wasn't too bad when asked to play wing.  I think the team needs someone like him to provide protection for Crosby.  When we had Laraque or Asham, people did not take the liberties they are now, its open season on our stars at this point and no one is standing up for them.

 

I see Megna/Sutter/Dupuis as not much different than the third line of Kennedy/Staal/Cooke, just cleaner. They'll have speed, and aren't afraid to hit, and they are going to be pretty good defensively to shadow the other teams top line.

 

The fourth line with Goc would be highly improved with the departure of Adams, and I think that the Pens need to start to promote up front from within. If they sign someone, it needs to be someone tough to play against, who is a team guy in the form of a Guerin, again grit and edge.

 

As for Vanek, no, I don't think so.  He just is a disappearing act at points of time, and seems to be a locker room drain.  He was benched in Buffalo at times, now he's going to be benched in Montreal, not what you want to see in someone you're going to pay $7M or so.

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@nossagog

 

Agree on both Scuds and Adams,  I just think with DFB there, Adams is  going no where.

 

Even if DFB is gone Adams isn't going anywhere.  Guys like him are a dime a dozen.  Is anyone going to trade for him? I'd rather have him for 1 more year than whatever late round pick he would fetch.

 

I don't see the problem with Engellend, he provides a much needed physicality to the team, and wasn't too bad when asked to play wing.  I think the team needs someone like him to provide protection for Crosby.  When we had Laraque or Asham, people did not take the liberties they are now, its open season on our stars at this point and no one is standing up for them.

 

I keep him around in the A but he's not a top 7 guy.  Martin, Letang, Niskanen, Maatta, Depres, Harrington, Bortuzzo (I'm still bringing Harrington up).

 

I see Megna/Sutter/Dupuis as not much different than the third line of Kennedy/Staal/Cooke, just cleaner. They'll have speed, and aren't afraid to hit, and they are going to be pretty good defensively to shadow the other teams top line.

 

Meh. I what I've seen of Megna he doesn't strike me as an physical/gritty type.  Sutter is OK but he's no Staal in that regard.  And none of them are Cooke.  I can't give Dupuis thata kind of role at his age coming off a serious knee injury. None of those guys have size, either. Sutter is tall but he's a rail.

 

The fourth line with Goc would be highly improved with the departure of Adams, and I think that the Pens need to start to promote up front from within. If they sign someone, it needs to be someone tough to play against, who is a team guy in the form of a Guerin, again grit and edge.

 

Good argument for Goc except realistically I doubt Adams goes so that doesn't leave room for him.  I'd rather a Boyle-type over him.

 

As for Vanek, no, I don't think so.  He just is a disappearing act at points of time, and seems to be a locker room drain.  He was benched in Buffalo at times, now he's going to be benched in Montreal, not what you want to see in someone you're going to pay $7M or so.

 

Could not agree more!

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Here's a crazy thought. There's more chatter that the Kings should strongly consider buying out Mike Richards.

 

If there was ever a place he could go that would totally stick it to the Flyers and put him - once again - in an instant position to win the Cup, it would be Pittsburgh. 

 

He would be awesome and cheap as a 3rd line center with grit and experience for the Pens. I think he's the kind of depth veteran the Pens are missing.

 

Would love it but it would mean letting Sutter walk....for Richards though I'd have the think about it.

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@yave1964

 

I am not a fan (at all) of Setoguchi, and would absolutely keep Jokinen before him, at all costs. Jokinen seemed to have developed a very nice chemistry with Malkin. No way do I break that up.

 

Really?  I see a gritty guy who can finally give Sutter the kind of scoring skills that a 3rd liner should have (instead of a Tanner Glass or Chuck Kobasew). 

 

 

The main player I would dangle would be Neal. I would seriously consider dealing Neal for a top nine, preferably top six forward and a top four defenseman. With the cap situation you are going to be up against and the payday due to Niskanen the odds are he gets away. Someone is going to WAY overpay. He is a solid player, I really like him but he picked the absolute right time for a career year.

 

I think you could get one or the other for Neal - top 6 forward or top 4 defenceman but...why would you? Just don't see the point.  Agree that someone could overpay for Niskanen.  He's not coming back if he wants $6,000,000+.

 

Without him the defense is certainly not championship quality. Then factor in Orpik moving on and Letang's health a top four d-man is going to be a must. Obviously if I am wrong and Niskanen stays that changes everything, but my opinion is he is gone, too many teams with money and a need for a blueliner and not enough d-men available.

 

Sadly - I think the D is better without Orpik (and Scuderi).  Even w/o Niskanen - Martin, Letang, Maatta, Depres, Bortuzzo, Harrington - you can win a Cup wth that D.  If Niskanen does go they can bring in another d-man, too.

 

Teams I would consider dealing with:

Predators for Josi and a forward.

Canucks for Kessler and Edler. Obvious salary back the other way, Scuderi who cannot be bought out going in the deal.

Coyotes for Yandle.

The Ducks have a plethora of young d-men and forwards. One of each.

 

Scuderi can be bought out - it's just not a compliance buy-out.

 

As for the trades? I don't think the Predators do that deal.

 

I don't do the Canucks deal since the Pens end up with too many centers and not enough wingers.

 

I don't do the Yotes deal even if we lose Niskanen. We have a pipeline on D. Yandle clogs it while creating a big hole on the top lines.

 

 

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@B21

Okay, I see your point with Setoguchi IF it is to put him on the third line with Sutter. If you are planning on replacing Jokinen with him on the second line, my personal opinion is he would be a downgrade from Jokinen.

 

  You might be able to win a cup with a defense of Letang, Martin, Bortuzzo, Harrington, Maatta and Despres, I just don't think you could win with that defense next year. Too much youth and inexperience to survive the grind of the playoffs. I think you need a top four blueliner with offensive skill to take the pressure off the kids and allow a more natural learning curve. I think Niskanen will get 6 million a year or close to it, he is better than a lot of guys making that kind of money. If you lose him, rather than relying on so much youth on the back end someone like Zidlicky or Markov on a one or two year deal while the kids get settled in might be a good signing.

 

  I see what your saying with Kessler, however the one thing with getting him for the second line center spot you could bounce Malkin around on the Wing between him and Crosby, which would scare the living hell out of everyone in the league.

Edited by yave1964
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Meh. I what I've seen of Megna he doesn't strike me as an physical/gritty type.  Sutter is OK but he's no Staal in that regard.  And none of them are Cooke.  I can't give Dupuis thata kind of role at his age coming off a serious knee injury. None of those guys have size, either. Sutter is tall but he's a rail.

 

 

Interesting enough, there is a blog on the main page that goes through some of the Pens UFA's.  They state that the feeling on Megna is that he is in the mold of Dupuis, but has better hands.

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@B21

 

Okay, I see your point with Setoguchi IF it is to put him on the third line with Sutter. If you are planning on replacing Jokinen with him on the second line, my personal opinion is he would be a downgrade from Jokinen.

 

Gotcha.  Yes - Gooch (see - I got a nickname already!) is a 3rd line. For GM B21, Beau Bennett replaces Jokinen.

 

You might be able to win a cup with a defense of Letang, Martin, Bortuzzo, Harrington, Maatta and Despres, I just don't think you could win with that defense next year. Too much youth and inexperience to survive the grind of the playoffs. I think you need a top four blueliner with offensive skill to take the pressure off the kids and allow a more natural learning curve. I think Niskanen will get 6 million a year or close to it, he is better than a lot of guys making that kind of money. If you lose him, rather than relying on so much youth on the back end someone like Zidlicky or Markov on a one or two year deal while the kids get settled in might be a good signing.

 

I hear ya but I'd still be willing to take my chances.  Maatta will be a year older. Depres has playoff experience (his play in 2012 is why we were so high on him going into 2013). I think you can do well with 1 true rookie on the blue line. 

 

I

see what your saying with Kessler, however the one thing with getting him for the second line center spot you could bounce Malkin around on the Wing between him and Crosby, which would scare the living hell out of everyone in the league.

 

I'd love Kesler but Sutter would have to be going back to free up that spot.  I hate the idea of Malkin on Crosby's wing.

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Interesting enough, there is a blog on the main page that goes through some of the Pens UFA's.  They state that the feeling on Megna is that he is in the mold of Dupuis, but has better hands.

 

I'd be thrilled with that. Though we'll never know so long as DFB is around. :D

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Here's a crazy thought. There's more chatter that the Kings should strongly consider buying out Mike Richards.

 

If there was ever a place he could go that would totally stick it to the Flyers and put him - once again - in an instant position to win the Cup, it would be Pittsburgh. 

 

He would be awesome and cheap as a 3rd line center with grit and experience for the Pens. I think he's the kind of depth veteran the Pens are missing.

shutup  :P

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There's a bigger picture though. It IS on a coach if the coach uses poor line combinations and makes no adjustment to the opponents tactics. And it IS on the GM if the owners feel the coach wasn't given the right players to put it together. In this case Lemieux strongly feels Shero let key pieces walk away. Maybe that was Cooke or Morrow, or both and Murray. I don't know. But Lemieux is unhappy. And one thing I've learned is Mario, though a very gifted hockey player, is also a very gifted intellectual. He didnt like something, and I trust his judgement.

 

Oh sure. I bring this up and I'm insane. Mario brings it up after the season and he's a genius.

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