where would we be?

[pensuck]

If We Kept Sharp, Carter, Richards,Jvr. Just To Name A Few. Im Sure There Are Quite A Few Other Players That We've Gotten Rid Of That We Could Use Right Now.

On Another Note, Carter Is looking Amazing Right now

[fishbulb]

I still think we 'won' both of those trades  (Richie and crater)

 

JVR for Schenn was a mistake for sure

and dealing sharp was just foolish.

 

Hindsight and all that.

[Vanflyer]

If We Kept Sharp, Carter, Richards,Jvr. Just To Name A Few. Im Sure There Are Quite A Few Other Players That We've Gotten Rid Of That We Could Use Right Now.
On Another Note, Carter Is looking Amazing Right now

 

Loaded question. 

 

1) Sharp is for sure wish we had a redo. 

 

2) JVR- needed a trade of scenery (but boy would love to have him as a LW now). The jury is still out on that regardless of his production in Toronto. Schenn could develop into a solid 3 / 4 guy on d and we needed that. 

 

3) Richards- Meh. His best days where in Philly. Nice player, but I'll keep Schenn (b) and Simmonds. 

 

4) J. Williams - most definitely would want to undo that. We got danny markov in that trade and needed him. I really liked him, despite his smoking a pack of cigs and drinking a bottle of vodka a day. Yet, Williams should have been kept. 

 

5) Carter- he had to go. It was time. I think he just needed the right coach and that Suter is it for him. He is playing in areas he never played in for the Flyers or Columbus. Had he done that, he would have never been traded by either team. I love Voracek and Couturier. No regrets. 

 

(agree he is playing like a stud). 

[The Quigster]

Carter and Richards were being ask to do a job neither were capable of and the results are obvious.  The Schenn brothers seem to have problem with the sense and act part of their game,once they get that squared away,things might improve.

[flyercanuck]

(sniffle, sniffle) What about Uppy? :blink:

[jammer2]

 Yorkie?

[flyercanuck]

@jammer2

 

I miss saying Niko Dimitrakos, Antero Nittimaki and Branko Radivojevic.Oh and Canoe-Bull!

[ruxpin]

The point is that we don't have them anymore.   I think fans of just about any franchise can sit around saying "what if we didn't do these trades?"  If they're currently winning Cups or seriously contending, they probably don't care.  But the fans of the 25-26 other teams have ghosts.  Even Boston fans will be whining about the Tyler Seguin trade in about 3 years, but it was a now vs. later trade and it's arguable that Seguin (like JVR for the Flyers) just wasn't going to develop in Boston.

 

As for the list, I would only undo the Sharp trade.  I thought it was idiotic then, and now it should be on any top 5 list of worst Flyers' trades of all time.

 

In retrospect, I would undo the Dennis Seidenberg deal, as well.  It's interesting that the Pronger trade isn't on here, because I think it would be more interesting to see where the prospects would be by now that we weren't able to draft as a result.

 

But there are trades that the Flyers have benefited from  in which the other team's fans would like a redo. 

 

But even if we undid some of these trades, the answer to your "where would we be now?" question is:  pretty much exactly where we are now.  Our team would be older and I don't think that much more competitive than now. 

[brelic]

I think there's a clear distinction between "winning vs losing" a trade, and "where would we be" if we hadn't done it.

 

In the Carter/Richards trade, I don't think there's any question that LA won the trade, hands down. If they get another Cup this year, Carter is a big part of that. Richards was important in the first Cup. Either way, LA won the trade. Period. I know that Carter got there through a different route that we didn't control, so maybe we can't look at Carter in that same light. In that sense, we definitely 'won' the trade with Columbus.

 

Back to LA, winning/losing the trade can change over time if the pieces we got for them can bring us a Cup. But short of a Cup, I don't see how there's any way we could claim to have 'won' the trade.

 

All that being said, that's not the same as wanting to undo the trade, or to assume that their success elsewhere would have happened here.

 

I think many people on here would not 'undo' those two trades if they could. 

 

The JVR trade, IMO, was dumb even though JVR infuriated me to no end. I'm allowed to go back and forth on a player, and be irrational, emotional and impatient because I'm a fan. I don't control a $70M budget. But Homer does. And I think they made a bad hockey trade. Even before the trade, I think it was clear that Schenn's upside was limited because of the type of defender he is... and weren't we just discussing this the other day? The Flyers are bad at drafting defensemen because they always go after the same type of player that doesn't work well in the new NHL. JVR's upside was top line winger, and he's showing that now. He's still inconsistent, but I would take that 20 times out of 10 on Giroux's wing instead of Hartnell. Can you imagine JVR/Giroux/Voracek? And now imagine that in 2-3 years from now, when they're all hitting their stride. That trade was a mistake, IMO.

 

Sharp was a mistake of a different type. It was one of those situations where the Flyers don't trust the guys they've drafted, and don't put them in positions to succeed. And when they don't succeed right away, the Flyers cut them loose or bury them.

 

It's hard to say where we'd be because there are so many moving parts, and you can't just cherry pick certain trades to focus on. Without the Pronger trade, there's no way we reach the 2010 SCF, and who knows what that means for our squad today.

[King Knut]

Thank you for making sense.

No one else makes a luck of sense regarding Carter and Richards.

They won the cup and will be in the conf finals what? 3 years running since the trades?

Columbus got a little screwed in the process and we got some nice young talent that I wouldn't want to give up now that they're here.

But LA won. Sorry. We can sugar coat it with all the may saying and skepticism we like.

Look where they are and look where we are.

They were good trades from the flyers perspective. Really good trades.

The Kings still win them. They were the trades that team needed and it got them three years of success.

What we got is still developing after 3 years.

It's a win for them and still a "we'll see" for us.

All this equivocating about why Richards and Carter aren't really any good or were somehow not going to do well if they'd stayed here is jsmust a tad delusional.

It doesn't matter, we got good return. We probably weren't winning cups with them either. Hopefully a few final pieces fall into place in defense this summer and next year our guys compete with the best.

As it is now they lost in the playoffs to A fairly dominant (if not boring as all hell) looking Rangers team. I take some solace in that.

I think there's a clear distinction between "winning vs losing" a trade, and "where would we be" if we hadn't done it.

In the Carter/Richards trade, I don't think there's any question that LA won the trade, hands down. If they get another Cup this year, Carter is a big part of that. Richards was important in the first Cup. Either way, LA won the trade. Period. I know that Carter got there through a different route that we didn't control, so maybe we can't look at Carter in that same light. In that sense, we definitely 'won' the trade with Columbus.

Back to LA, winning/losing the trade can change over time if the pieces we got for them can bring us a Cup. But short of a Cup, I don't see how there's any way we could claim to have 'won' the trade.

All that being said, that's not the same as wanting to undo the trade, or to assume that their success elsewhere would have happened here.

I think many people on here would not 'undo' those two trades if they could.

The JVR trade, IMO, was dumb even though JVR infuriated me to no end. I'm allowed to go back and forth on a player, and be irrational, emotional and impatient because I'm a fan. I don't control a $70M budget. But Homer does. And I think they made a bad hockey trade. Even before the trade, I think it was clear that Schenn's upside was limited because of the type of defender he is... and weren't we just discussing this the other day? The Flyers are bad at drafting defensemen because they always go after the same type of player that doesn't work well in the new NHL. JVR's upside was top line winger, and he's showing that now. He's still inconsistent, but I would take that 20 times out of 10 on Giroux's wing instead of Hartnell. Can you imagine JVR/Giroux/Voracek? And now imagine that in 2-3 years from now, when they're all hitting their stride. That trade was a mistake, IMO.

Sharp was a mistake of a different type. It was one of those situations where the Flyers don't trust the guys they've drafted, and don't put them in positions to succeed. And when they don't succeed right away, the Flyers cut them loose or bury them.

It's hard to say where we'd be because there are so many moving parts, and you can't just cherry pick certain trades to focus on. Without the Pronger trade, there's no way we reach the 2010 SCF, and who knows what that means for our squad today.

[ruxpin]

I think there's a clear distinction between "winning vs losing" a trade, and "where would we be" if we hadn't done it.

 

In the Carter/Richards trade, I don't think there's any question that LA won the trade, hands down. If they get another Cup this year, Carter is a big part of that. Richards was important in the first Cup. Either way, LA won the trade. Period. I know that Carter got there through a different route that we didn't control, so maybe we can't look at Carter in that same light. In that sense, we definitely 'won' the trade with Columbus.

 

Back to LA, winning/losing the trade can change over time if the pieces we got for them can bring us a Cup. But short of a Cup, I don't see how there's any way we could claim to have 'won' the trade.

 

All that being said, that's not the same as wanting to undo the trade, or to assume that their success elsewhere would have happened here.

 

I think many people on here would not 'undo' those two trades if they could. 

 

The JVR trade, IMO, was dumb even though JVR infuriated me to no end. I'm allowed to go back and forth on a player, and be irrational, emotional and impatient because I'm a fan. I don't control a $70M budget. But Homer does. And I think they made a bad hockey trade. Even before the trade, I think it was clear that Schenn's upside was limited because of the type of defender he is... and weren't we just discussing this the other day? The Flyers are bad at drafting defensemen because they always go after the same type of player that doesn't work well in the new NHL. JVR's upside was top line winger, and he's showing that now. He's still inconsistent, but I would take that 20 times out of 10 on Giroux's wing instead of Hartnell. Can you imagine JVR/Giroux/Voracek? And now imagine that in 2-3 years from now, when they're all hitting their stride. That trade was a mistake, IMO.

 

Sharp was a mistake of a different type. It was one of those situations where the Flyers don't trust the guys they've drafted, and don't put them in positions to succeed. And when they don't succeed right away, the Flyers cut them loose or bury them.

 

It's hard to say where we'd be because there are so many moving parts, and you can't just cherry pick certain trades to focus on. Without the Pronger trade, there's no way we reach the 2010 SCF, and who knows what that means for our squad today.

 

That is such a good post.  Well said.  I really liked the distinction between judging a trade as good/bad and wanting to undo it.   Really very good point.

[Samifan]

(sniffle, sniffle) What about Uppy? :blink:

What about Lupul? Puff,Puff,Pass

[doom88]

How about undoing the Eminger from Washington trade. That first rounder turned into Jon Carlson.

[OccamsRazor]

What about Lupul? Puff,Puff,Pass

 

Wonder where they'd been with Alexei Zhitnik instead of Coburn???

 

With out Coburn who would have been there in the 2010 Stanley Cup finals to go -3 in game #1

 

or -3 in game #3

 

or -2 in game #4

 

or -2 in game #6 the clincher???

 

Who!?

 

And please don't comeback with "without them they don't make the finals"....it's just for conversations sake!!!! 

[flyercanuck]

@OccamsRazor

 

By 2010 Zhitnik had already been out of the NHL for 2 years. That deal was a win no matter if you look at it up, down or sideways.

[murraycraven]

How about undoing the Eminger from Washington trade. That first rounder turned into Jon Carlson.

Amen Doom... That is the real question and franklynone of the worst moves that was made...

[OccamsRazor]

@OccamsRazor

 

By 2010 Zhitnik had already been out of the NHL for 2 years. That deal was a win no matter if you look at it up, down or sideways.

 

 

Really i think Zhitnik might have played longer in Philly hell i would retire to if i played in Atlanta.

 

He played 3 more season after the trade 1 in Atlanta and two more in the KHL but really we'll never know. I just brought it up just to change the conversation slightly about guys that got away.

 

And yes Philly won that trade still even though at times i get upset because i expect more from Coburn...maybe one day.