I'm gonna go ahead and get this out of the way now

[murraycraven]

Richards might be paid highly for a 4th liner... But there are plenty of situations that Sutter counts on him. He played about 17 minutes a night this year (Carter about 19), which is a lot more than most 4th liners. Our very own overpaid 4th liner played about 15 minutes a night. And I can't think of many situations that LeCavalier would be my go-to guy.

I doubt Sutter is too worried about his caphit. The length on the other hand....

I love Richards but to borrow a phrase that is used by fellow flyers fans around these parts as if a kings fan: like the player but hate the contract

[RonJeremy]

Richards always gave his all in Philly, he's a small guy who plays big, and he puts his body through some real physical punishment. Remember he had to get surgery on both shoulders after the cup year. Richards will wear down quick playing like that. Carter was a big guy who plays small, he was a one dimensional puck hog with a great shot and good skating skills.he had no stick handling or playmaking skills.it seems Carter has improved in LA.

We got out from under two huge contracts and we got back 4 good players back , so I still think we got the better of both deals.

[Vanflyer]

Richards numbers are in serious decline and I would not be shocked if he was bought out after this season.   Maybe it is Suter but he is not worth that contract and I am a HUGE Richards fan...   We got two very good players back and I would do it again.  

 

I think Richards still has value. Ice time is earner under Suter, but perhaps Richards needs a change a scenery where he can be a bigger man on campus to reignite himself. He is playing 3rd / 4th fiddle down the middle most nights. To your point on salary, its high for a 15 min a night guys- especially when you look at his production at both ends of the ice. 

 

I guess the question would be where would be a good landing spot for him? 

 

Columbus? (ah the irony!!) :-)

 

On Carter, yeah, what a whinny silver spoon kid. The thing is that he has always had allot of the tools. I watched him AHL calder and he a beast (along with Richards). For whatever reason, for the Flyers he seemed to want to coast and play perimeter hockey. With his size and skating, very frustrating. For some reason the hockey gods are smiling on him.

[OccamsRazor]

Can we talk about Richie and Crater more i think we need a thread dedicated for each one....jeeeeezzzzzzusss this is getting out of hand is this what we have to look forward to till the draft.

 

 

Please Hexy sign someone anyone so we have something else.....paralysis of analysis till we puke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[jammer2]

I guess the question would be where would be a good landing spot for him?

 

 In one of the Capital threads I proposed the following trade, think it would be a great fit for both teams:

 

 LA gets

 

 Ovechkin, Orlov and a 2nd rounder in 20

 

 Washington gets

 

 Mike Richards, Justin Williams, Alex Martinez and 3 first rounders in 2016, 17 and 18. Imagine a top pp of OV, Kopitar, Gaborik, Carter and Doughty....that is SCARY!!

[doom88]

I wouldn't trade that much for Ovechkin. Pronger package at most (good player, good prospect, two 1sts). Three firsts is too much.

[Philly29]

Fanatic that was awesome. I agree whole heartedly with you, spot on my man....spot on.

[jammer2]

@doom88  I think 3 firsts would be overpayment also. But I'm thinking, whichever team wins this bidding war (probably involving over 10 teams)....the winning offer will indeed be an overpayment.

[Vanflyer]

LA gets
 
 Ovechkin, Orlov and a 2nd rounder in 20
 
 Washington gets
 
 Mike Richards, Justin Williams, Alex Martinez and 3 first rounders in 2016, 17 and 18. Imagine a top pp of OV, Kopitar, Gaborik, Carter and Doughty....that is SCARY!!

 

Interesting. I guess if Ovie can land and play well anywhere, LA would be it (given they are a defense first team and have a world class goalie). Since Trotz is the new coach in Washington, perhaps Ovie would not be reluctant to such a move. Money wise, it looks as if it could actually work. 

 

Interestingly, Ovaries NTC does not kick in until July 1 2014 this year. So, he would have no say in it (though I would think he would be ecstatic to go to a SC winner / contender. Especially where he did not have to be THE man. Its just could his ego handle it?

[radoran]

 "are among those who most frequently lament that the Flyers".........i'm sorry my friend i'm not in this category.

 

I can go back through the shoutbox, but okay...

 

Can we talk about Richie and Crater more i think we need a thread dedicated for each one....jeeeeezzzzzzusss this is getting out of hand is this what we have to look forward to till the draft.

 

 

Please Hexy sign someone anyone so we have something else.....paralysis of analysis till we puke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

Dude, no one makes you comment...

 

It's late May, the Flyers are out of the playoffs, the Kings are up in the Conference Final 3-1 and we're all stumbling around for something to talk about. 

[jammer2]

It's late May, the Flyers are out of the playoffs, the Kings are up in the Conference Final 3-1 and we're all stumbling around for something to talk about.

 

 Exactly exact.

[OccamsRazor]

I can go back through the shoutbox, but okay...

 

Feel free you won't find any where i said i miss them and want them back a do over or whatever...go ahead.

Dude, no one makes you comment...

 

And noone makes you read my comments either.

[jammer2]

@OccamsRazor  I think you're taking rads comments a bit to seriously. Don't think his intention was to be mean spirited as you interpreted....but he would know better than me....lol.

[OccamsRazor]

@OccamsRazor  I think you're taking rads comments a bit to seriously. Don't think his intention was to be mean spirited as you interpreted....but he would know better than me....lol.

 

 

Mine aren't either. Just saying it goes both ways.

 

But i'm not whiner complaining about the trade of Carter....i didn't like his game here he needed a change we got a good return for them i'm ok with it and i'm happy they won a Cup.

 

The only bitterness is i wanted it for my Flyers.

 

I don't hate them Richie was one of my favs. I'm tired of the subject and won't read further. And won't comment on it further but please you guysdon't let me stop you....continue i was being funny and stating it gets old is all i guess my paralysis of analysis  rubbed him the wrong way oh well. 

[Vanflyer]

I don't hate them Richie was one of my favs. I'm tired of the subject and won't read further. And won't comment on it further but please you guysdon't let me stop you....continue i was being funny and stating it gets old is all i guess my

 

Not to stir the pot (ok, well I will). Hate the rehash of a topic when there is nothing new to be said/stated. But there is actually allot to be said about the players current status. I will generally follow ex-flyers regardless of my admiration or disdain for them. 

 

To your point, if the posts topic were to rehash the value of the trades again, that is idiotic to me given that the postmortem has been done adnauseum. I am perfectly fine with both trades and I think the return in value was substantial and the Flyers won on both counts. Nail in coffin and close the door. 

 

The nature of the beast will always predicate that that coffin / door gets opened from time to time just to play would of / could of / should of. In this instance, it does not make any sense to do any of those regardless of how many rings Ritchie / Carter might wear. The reality is that it was never going to happen here (IMO). Past is past. 

Edited May 28, 2014 by Vanflyer

[radoran]

The reality is that it was never going to happen here (IMO). Past is past. 

 

Those grapes were definitely, unquestionably, irrefutably, totally sour. No, for reals. And they will keep being brought up until everyone agrees with that.

 

And, again, I think the trades benefitted the Flyers on the talent side 24 times out of 10.

[jammer2]

The nature of the beast will always predicate that that coffin / door gets opened from time to time just to play would of / could of / should of. In this instance, it does not make any sense to do any of those regardless of how many rings Ritchie / Carter might wear. The reality is that it was never going to happen here (IMO). Past is past.

 

 It's kinda like mentioning Mike York and *not* inserting a mention of nachos, some things are just forever tied together.

[Vanflyer]

 It's kinda like mentioning Mike York and *not* inserting a mention of nachos, some things are just forever tied together.

 

Want to see a hijacked thread (i know there is one here somewhere, but I just can't resist)?  

 

Or its like Jon Sim and <insert>, some things are just forever tied together. 

[Polaris922]

I've always thought third being traded away cost you a chance or two at Cups. You were very close with them, and then everything got dumped without giving it another try. Maybe the trades will pay off in the long run, but I firmly believe the team with them was good enough to contend a couple more times. We'll never know.

(And that's fine with me .

[Vanflyer]

I've always thought third being traded away cost you a chance or two at Cups.

 

We never had the goaltending or d to sustain that kind of run (sc champions). Allot of people think that Carter / Richards did not have much to do with the first cup. They did. They had allot. Not as much as Kopitar / Brown / Doughty / Quick, but with those other guys in front of them, it allowed the Kings to come in waves on both sides of the ice. 

 

LA already had the infrastructure in place. They just needed to fill some wholes. In Philly, Carter and Richards WERE the infrastructure and not the hole fillers. A big difference. 

 

Additionally, Girioux has evolved into a top 5 centermen in the league just by sheer subtraction of Richards. Richards is a workhorse. He has skills, but they are not elite skills. Allot of his accomplishment comes from his effort. As his career has progressed, it seems that work is taking a tool on him. 

 

At the end of the day: 

 

Carter= Couturier (21 y/o), Voracek (24 y/o)

 

Richards= Schenn (22 y/o), Simmonds (25 y/o), Grossman

 

Its hard to say your club has missed an opportunity when one was not really there. By trading two spots, 5 were filled. Not just filled with vet journeymen players, but promising young players. The goalie situation seems to have been solved with Mason. Now d and a winger need to be addressed. These were holes when Carter and Richards were here as well. But at that time we only had one and a 1/2 formidable lines. We are close to rolling three very formidable lines and possibly four (not sure about the VLC stuff and where that will land). 

[Polaris922]

We never had the goaltending or d to sustain that kind of run (sc champions). Allot of people think that Carter / Richards did not have much to do with the first cup. They did. They had allot. Not as much as Kopitar / Brown / Doughty / Quick, but with those other guys in front of them, it allowed the Kings to come in waves on both sides of the ice. 

 

LA already had the infrastructure in place. They just needed to fill some wholes. In Philly, Carter and Richards WERE the infrastructure and not the hole fillers. A big difference. 

 

Additionally, Girioux has evolved into a top 5 centermen in the league just by sheer subtraction of Richards. Richards is a workhorse. He has skills, but they are not elite skills. Allot of his accomplishment comes from his effort. As his career has progressed, it seems that work is taking a tool on him. 

 

At the end of the day: 

 

Carter= Couturier (21 y/o), Voracek (24 y/o)

 

Richards= Schenn (22 y/o), Simmonds (25 y/o), Grossman

 

Its hard to say your club has missed an opportunity when one was not really there. By trading two spots, 5 were filled. Not just filled with vet journeymen players, but promising young players. The goalie situation seems to have been solved with Mason. Now d and a winger need to be addressed. These were holes when Carter and Richards were here as well. But at that time we only had one and a 1/2 formidable lines. We are close to rolling three very formidable lines and possibly four (not sure about the VLC stuff and where that will land). 

 

 

Maybe I gave your squad more credit than you guys do, but I thought those two guys with Gagne, Pronger, Timonen, Hartnell, Giroux, Briere, Carle, and van Riemsdyk were a formidable bunch and only getting better.  You had Asham, Carcillo and Laperriere in the lineup which made them very difficult to play against.  You added Meszaros the next season and won the Atlantic Division despite Pronger's injury.  You got swept by the Bruins but let's face it, they had a revenge factor going into the playoffs after your comeback the year before.  

 

I'm not a Flyers fan, obviously, and I am not saying this just to "stir the pot" or any similar opportunistic reach to poke a finger at you guys.  I seriously think Holmgren's biggest mistake was in trashing the team after the 2010-2011 season.  You still had one hell of a lineup, even with Pronger being out.  I thought you were pretty serious contenders for the Cup at that point, and honestly, I didn't like it one bit.  I know you guys are looking at the returns you got for the Richards/Carter trades here, and they may yet pay off.  But I strongly felt the biggest mistake Holmgren ever made as a GM was disassembling that team.  Yeah they were young and did some immature things, but given a little seasoning and you guys might have been celebrating by noiw.  Dead serious.  

 

Now feel free to tell me I don't know anything because I'm not a fan, etc etc...  but you have to wonder if maybe that's what lets me look at it objectively...

[mojo1917]

@Polaris922

That is another way to look at it.

I was shocked when I got back from the beach that day, that is for sure.

Never saw those moves coming "we got different"- Homer ...yeah, no kidding.

[fanaticV3.0]

I agree i'm am so tired of this i'm not bitter anymore it was hard to watch Richie (whom was one of my favs) Cater, Simon and Justin raise the Cup in LA.

 

But somewhere deep down i was happy for them....and just jealous.

 

10 years ago never would i have imagined in the next 10 years Tampa, Canes, Ducks, LA and even Ducks would hoist it before my beloved Flyers...but it shows that our creator (whom ever that mmay be for you) has a sense of humor. But i'm not laughing!!!! 

 

I'm not bitter about losing them at all. I don't regret trading the away one bit.

 

What I can't stand is this crying about it. They're gone. They didn't win a Cup here, were given plenty to work with here, and were not going to win a Cup here anytime soon. We didn't trade away a Cup or any of that other nonsense. Get over it (not you, the people who keep bringing it up).

[fanaticV3.0]

@OccamsRazor.

 

there is a lot of sour grapes that comes from our fanbase about Richards and Carter, no question.

 

 

 

 

A good many folks like to say that RIchie and Carts road the coattails of Brown and Kopitar , which they didn't.  They contributed greatly, LA doesn't get past St Louis if not for the way Richards played in that series. For the Kings the Richards trade put them over the top, Carter provided some scoring punch, because if I remember right they scored like 15 goals from late March into April...(hyperbole used for comic effect) .

 

They contributed greatly here too (when they felt like it), but what did it get us?

 

That's my point. Richards and Carter added to a team that already has the makings of a good young team gets you something. Richards and Carter as the focal point get you what we saw over the course of their career here.

 

LA is a little deeper than Brown and Kopitar. If I was going to say they were riding the coattails of anyone, I'd say it's Quick, Daughty, Brown, and Kopitar. It's a nice foundation and took all the pressure off of Batman and Robin when they landed in LA. They weren't expected to do as much.

[mojo1917]

That's my point. Richards and Carter added to a team that already has the makings of a good young team gets you something. Richards and Carter as the focal point get you what we saw over the course of their career here.

 

while they were here the fanbase was witness to...

A trip to the ECF

A first round loss to the eventual cup champion

Game 6 of the SCF

Loss in the second round to the eventual cup champion.

 

it's not like they didn't win  a lot of hockey games when they were here and were the "focal point" .

i think we get each other's points though.

 

i would not Ctrl-Z the trades, I don't taste the sour grapes from their success in LA. EDIT: I agree that the hindsight, "what if game" is pointless and borderline stupid.

I also don't feel the need to **** on their time here as wasted and full of terrible hockey/ suckitude , because it wasn't.

Edited May 28, 2014 by mojo1917