murraycraven Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Would you compare him to Patrick Sharp? Nope.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 It was a side-comment not directed at you per se'. It is in the context of the number two pick and who is better between JVR and Turris. Some feel Turris would / should have been the pick. I beg to differ. While there are several other players down the line in that draft class I certainly take over JVR OR Turris, thats easy to do with 20/20 hind site. At the time, it was a coin toss between the two at the number two slot (Turris / JVR). I still think the pick was the right one. Nothing more, nothing less. Ok. Gotcha. Well those people would be wrong. Turris hasn't even proven he belongs in the NHL yet. He just played his first full NHL season in what his 6th year? About him, I will say though I have to wonder if his development was hindered by playing in Phoenix. I'm a big believer in that the worst thing that can happen to a young player is getting drafted to a bad team and little else around him to help. I think it ruins careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Nope.... Vanek? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Would you compare him to Patrick Sharp? No, but that's more of a timing thing than anything. He could turn into a guy who gets you 60-70 points a year, he just hasn't yet. Versatility wise, I think Sharp plays all over, right? I don't see that ever happening with JVR. But production wise, I could see how they might be similar players one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 It was a side-comment not directed at you per se'. It is in the context of the number two pick and who is better between JVR and Turris. Some feel Turris would / should have been the pick. I beg to differ. While there are several other players down the line in that draft class I certainly take over JVR OR Turris, thats easy to do with 20/20 hind site. At the time, it was a coin toss between the two at the number two slot (Turris / JVR). I still think the pick was the right one. Nothing more, nothing less. I had said I'd take Turris. At the time (as always in Flyer land) we had a bunch of centers, so JVR really was the way to go over Turris (without use of hindsight, but still an understandable pick even with hindsight). Honestly, I think given the choice (definitely with hindsight) probably trading down would have been the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Vanek? you know that is a pretty good correlation. I know a lot of people really like Vanek but I think he would get crushed in Philly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Well those people would be wrong. Turris hasn't even proven he belongs in the NHL yet. He just played his first full NHL season in what his 6th year? About him, I will say though I have to wonder if his development was hindered by playing in Phoenix. I'm a big believer in that the worst thing that can happen to a young player is getting drafted to a bad team and little else around him to help. I think it ruins careers. All points fair. Being from Vancouver (Turris played at Burnaby), I got to watch him play. A really good player, but slender is an understatement. At the time he was drafted, he was listed at 170'lbs and I am sure that was with all his equipment on and after a game drenched with sweat. It was completely unreasonable to expect a guy like that to play AHL or NHL hockey at that time. I am not sure what the solution would have been (after juniors, he has to play pro hockey somewhere). He has finally matured and developed in his body. That said, the Flyers fans would be howling at the moon on selecting turris over JVR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I had said I'd take Turris. At the time (as always in Flyer land) we had a bunch of centers, so JVR really was the way to go over Turris (without use of hindsight, but still an understandable pick even with hindsight). Honestly, I think given the choice (definitely with hindsight) probably trading down would have been the way to go. Yup. or even going off the reservation and picking one of the other guys in the top 10 / 15. I do have to disagree with Turris. One fine season out of six does not make a player. Potential, sure. As much as you might lament JVR and his heart and all that (which I am on the fence about). Had the Flyers drafted Turris, you would be screaming bloody murder at this point. The Yotes traded Turris for Rundblad and a 2nd round 2012 pick. After that cluster eff of a move, they traded Rundblad to the Blackhawks + Birsbois for a 2nd round pick in the 2014 draft. So, the net sum is that the Yotes traded Turris AND Brisbois for a 2012 and 2014 second round pick. That kind of tells you the value of Turris. Its great that he had a break out season this past year. But he would have been murdered by now in Philly had we drafted him at least 4 fold as compared to JVR. Fortunately we had enough centers and wanted some size on wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 He could turn into a guy who gets you 60-70 points a year, he just hasn't yet. Versatility wise, I think Sharp plays all over, right? I don't see that ever happening with JVR. But production wise, I could see how they might be similar players one day. Yeah, I was just having a little fun, since they both score 30 goals this year (shaprs 6th consecutive season doing so: I throw out last year because he was injured). Vanek would be a better comparable: streaky, no heart and disappears in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 you know that is a pretty good correlation. I know a lot of people really like Vanek but I think he would get crushed in Philly... Yup. I think there is a post further on down to Fanactic where I iterate the same. They are very similar players: streaky, no heart, and disappear when it matters (playoffs or stretch drive, etc.). Why HF101 or TFG would want Vanek in Minny is beyond me. I will take a flyer on him (no pun intended). Especially at a 6-7m asking price for 4-6 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Matt Ellison Reported. 1000 times. Reported 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Yup. I think there is a post further on down to Fanactic where I iterate the same. They are very similar players: streaky, no heart, and disappear when it matters (playoffs or stretch drive, etc.). Why HF101 or TFG would want Vanek in Minny is beyond me. I will take a flyer on him (no pun intended). Especially at a 6-7m asking price for 4-6 years. He is gonna command a big payday which I am not really in favor of.... Although, I do use his curve/pattern on all my sticks...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Although, I do use his curve/pattern on all my sticks...lol Are you getting a big pay day because of that?? :-P How come nobody ever plays with a John LeClaire blade?? :-) That would be a good topic for the summer @hf101. Hockey blades. Gone are the days of the wooden stick and the blow torch. :-*( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Reported. 1000 times. Reported Don't report me but he is his autographed pic just for you since he seems to be one of your favorite players traded for...... Matty says hello!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Don't report me but he is his autographed pic just for you since he seems to be one of your favorite players traded for...... Matty says hello!!!!!!!!The dude actually played 2 games for the O&B!?!??! Nope...gotta say, I don't remember http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=64496 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 All points fair. Being from Vancouver (Turris played at Burnaby), I got to watch him play. A really good player, but slender is an understatement. At the time he was drafted, he was listed at 170'lbs and I am sure that was with all his equipment on and after a game drenched with sweat. It was completely unreasonable to expect a guy like that to play AHL or NHL hockey at that time. I am not sure what the solution would have been (after juniors, he has to play pro hockey somewhere). He has finally matured and developed in his body. That said, the Flyers fans would be howling at the moon on selecting turris over JVR. I am very big on personal accountability, but if ever were there a situation to cut somebody some slack it's when a kid is drafted and expected to be a savior (or very important piece) of a terrible organization. I don't understand how a paid professional can expect a kid to come in and just do that. That only happens with very unique and special players. Luckily for him, he's still only 24, so not all is lost. He just played his first full season with his new team and got 58 points. That ain't bad. Ottawa is not a good team right now, but Phoenix is almost always a lost cause. They rarely have anything going for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I am very big on personal accountability, but if ever were there a situation to cut somebody some slack it's when a kid is drafted and expected to be a savior (or very important piece) of a terrible organization. Do you mean like Eric Lindros?? Turris was never expected to be a savior. He was expected to be a good to a really good player (same as JVR). Not a Gretzky, Lemieux etc. I don't understand how a paid professional can expect a kid to come in and just do that. Huh? You mean how "paid professionals" (whomever they may be) can expect to draft and offer a person millions of dollars to play a sport that said player loves and have expectations??? WTF. This is not candy land. He just played his first full season with his new team and got 58 points. T He has been in Ottawa for three years now. Injuries / lock prior to this year and he has done nothing. You cite "first full season", I cough and say bs. He played in all games last season and did nothing. He played three quarters of a season two years ago and did nothing. Ottawa is not a good team right now, but Phoenix is almost always a lost cause. They rarely have anything going for them. Man you have a very skewed perception. The last three years, Phoenix has nearly 30 more wins than Ottawa. Two seasons nearly 100 points (which Ottawa has not sniffed in......well a long time). I mean, we really should flip the cards and say that almost always Ottawa is a lost cause, because if Phoenix is a lost cause playing in the west and perhaps the toughest division in the league and posting 90 - 100 point seasons, then certainly Ottawa must be a mammoth lost cause. Do your homework before spouting off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Do you mean like Eric Lindros?? Turris was never expected to be a savior. He was expected to be a good to a really good player (same as JVR). Not a Gretzky, Lemieux etc. Huh? You mean how "paid professionals" (whomever they may be) can expect to draft and offer a person millions of dollars to play a sport that said player loves and have expectations??? WTF. This is not candy land. He has been in Ottawa for three years now. Injuries / lock prior to this year and he has done nothing. You cite "first full season", I cough and say bs. He played in all games last season and did nothing. He played three quarters of a season two years ago and did nothing. Man you have a very skewed perception. The last three years, Phoenix has nearly 30 more wins than Ottawa. Two seasons nearly 100 points (which Ottawa has not sniffed in......well a long time). I mean, we really should flip the cards and say that almost always Ottawa is a lost cause, because if Phoenix is a lost cause playing in the west and perhaps the toughest division in the league and posting 90 - 100 point seasons, then certainly Ottawa must be a mammoth lost cause. Do your homework before spouting off. No, not like Eric Lindros at all. Unlike Turris, Lindros had the tools to shoulder that load that was placed on his shoulders. Phoenix blows. They are never a contender even on the rare occasion they do make the PO. They are a third rate organization. They will never do anything of merit. They cannot compete with other teams around the league and Ottawa is without a doubt a better place to lay than the desert. 30 more wins than Ottawa in the last 3 years? WOW, there's an impressive stat. They should hang a banner in the rafters for that. Even their current roster sucks despite their "30 more points than Ottawa in the last 3 years", lol. As bad as Ottawa is right now, they've got some youth and some good youth at that; something Phoenix does not and never has. They're a waste of an organization. Yes, Turris has just played his first full season with his "new" team. That is a fact regardless of how much you don't care for it. And guess what? His ppg was a career high this year, haha! Don't talk to me about homework when you ignore his progress, which is proven in the stats, and you bring this weak 30 more wins in the last 3 years crap to the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Phoenix blows. They are never a contender even on the rare occasion they do make the PO. They are a third rate organization. They will never do anything of merit Well remember they did get to the Western Conference Finals in 2012 verse the Kings when they won their first Cup. Not to shabby since they lost i think 4 games to one but that isn't to bad considering they never utilize their full cap potential. I think they have made the playoffs every year except last year that Tippett has been there as a coach. But yes that doesn't really mean they don't suck. Just point it out. Tippett is the guy i wanted the Flyers to hire as coach. But i'll give Berube one more year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Don't talk to me about homework when you ignore his progress, which is proven in the stats, and you bring this weak 30 more wins in the last 3 years crap to the table. 1)2013-2014: Phoenix 89 pts / Ottawa 88 points2012-2013: Phoenix 51 pts / Ottawa 56 points2011-2012: Phoenix 97 pts / Ottawa 92 points2010-2011: Phoenix 99 pts / Ottawa 74 points2009-2010: Phoenix 107 pts / Ottawa 94 points Last 5 season totals: Phoenix 443 pts / Ottawa 404 pts I exaggerated the wins. My bad. The point being that you call Phoenix "blows" when in reality they are / have been competitive for a while. I get it is you don't like Ownership / management. I also get it if you don't think Hockey should be in the desert. But aside from all those detriments, the team itself is quite good (and better than ottawa the last 5 seasons. As bad as Ottawa is right now, they've got some youth and some good youth at that; something Phoenix does not and never has. They're a waste of an organization. Not for nothing, but Hockey Futures has Phoenix team ranking at #12. Ottawa is ranked #19. Yes, Turris has just played his first full season with his "new" team. That is a fact regardless of how much you don't care for it. And guess what? His ppg was a career high this year, haha! Don't talk to me about homework when you ignore his progress, which is proven in the stats, and you bring this weak 30 more wins in the last 3 years crap to the table. Turris played in all 48 games last season. That is a full season too. Its great that he had a break out year. My point is is woo hoo. His 6th season in the league and he finally cracked the 20 goal marker. Lets have a party. You site PPG: 1) Kyle Turrius- Regular season> 316 gp, 162 pts> .5 ppg Playoffs> 21 gp, 15pts> .7 ppg 2) JVR- Regular season> 324 gp, 192 pts> .59 ppg Playoffs> 46 gp, 22 pts> .47 ppg Turris certainly has progressed, you can't deny that when prior to this season his highest goal production was 12 goals. The point being (coming full circle) is that Turris / JVR are pretty even production wise. I will give credence to Turris because he is a center (a more difficult position than Wing). I will aslo acknowledge that he is a better two-way player. Value wise, I think they are equal when all things are put into play. Nothing more, nothing less. The Flyers did not need a center- thus got JVR. While Phoenix may have mishandled Turris, I can't see the Flyers doing any better. The fans would have been clamoring for Turris to play on the big club and it would have ended with equal disastrous results and probably worse because the fan base would have chewed Turris up and spit him out alive. Edited June 5, 2014 by Vanflyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 The dude actually played 2 games for the O&B!?!??! Nope...gotta say, I don't rememberhttp://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=64496He played a total of seven for the Flyers which one can only assume is an example of organizational obstinance. He was completely and utterly forgettable. When you ask about him, even his parents say "who?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) He was completely and utterly forgettable. You don't remember that assist he got?? As I recollect now on days past, it was a beaut! He was going on a line change and the puck nicked his skate or something like that if I remember correctly. Edited June 6, 2014 by Vanflyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 as if to underscore, the lamest tribute video ever made, ever. like, ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 as if to underscore, the lamest tribute video ever made, ever. like, ever. Dude no doubt about that it's so lame he put him stretching in it!!!!! Who does that???? Who wants to see someone one lying on the ice stretching....and then to trash Korn buy using their music....Jonathan finds out he's gonna sue him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Well remember they did get to the Western Conference Finals in 2012 verse the Kings when they won their first Cup. Not to shabby since they lost i think 4 games to one but that isn't to bad considering they never utilize their full cap potential. I think they have made the playoffs every year except last year that Tippett has been there as a coach. But yes that doesn't really mean they don't suck. Just point it out. Tippett is the guy i wanted the Flyers to hire as coach. But i'll give Berube one more year. LOL, are you serious? But back to Phoenix, even you said yourself it doesn't mean they don't suck. Even bad organizations make the POs once and a while. Phoenix is, for the most part, and organization that has no real impact on the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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