No takers on Vinny?

[pilldoc]

What if she brought Jack Bauer with her?

 

Surely Jack can save the Flyers in 24 hours!!

 

any he will break every rule doing it!

 

in Bauer raspy voice... "Listen Ed...I know how to break every one of these GM's.  Right now I'm your ONLY chance to get back to the cup"

[pilldoc]

I remember the melt down a lot of people had on another board that shall not be named when Jagr was first signed.  I actually wasn't one of them.  Sure, when I first saw the teaser on CSN prior to the evening news show, I was like "Sleeping with the Enemy!"  But by the time the commercial was over and they began with the terms I thought it was a great deal.  I, too, wanted them to resign him but wasn't really galvanized about how dumb a move it was NOT to until about a week or two into the following season.  At the time, I was a bit more irritated with their not signing Carle.

 

The year Jagr was here he had some injuries and I thought maybe he might continue with that proclivity since he wasn't getting any younger.  So, at first, I was okay that they didn't resign even though I thought *I* would have.  His absence was palpable very quickly the next season, though.

 

Shoulda/woulda/coulda 

 

I hear ya Rux.  I was one of those ....why Jagr camp.  BUT he proved me wrong.  I wish I could have seen him 1 more year in O&B.  Him scoring against the Pens made my day. ...... agree Shoulda / woulda / coulda

[King Knut]

He'll he scored at like 4 times the pace on the 4th and make Akeson look good.

Why not roll a 4th line and give Some of the youth a chance to learn to score and check?

I also feel like he'll be less of a defensive liability at center for a full season rather than at a random wing of the moment.

This is of course a worst case scenario. Move him if you can!

I'll believe it when I see it. I saw someone post this article on Facebook the other day and my first thought is who is going to take him? If you can move him, by all means do it, but I just don't see a market for this guy.

If you are stuck with him, I'm completely on board with King Knut's idea of having him center the fourth line. I'm sick of fourth lines that are a waste of space. Do some creative or productive with that spot. You don't have to have guys that can't play on the fourth. Don't give me that "energy' crap either, that's just code for "We've got nothing better."

[ruxpin]

He'll he scored at like 4 times the pace on the 4th and make Akeson look good.

Why not roll a 4th line and give Some of the youth a chance to learn to score and check?

I also feel like he'll be less of a defensive liability at center for a full season rather than at a random wing of the moment.

This is of course a worst case scenario. Move him if you can!

*IF* they are stuck with him, your plan is the only viable one to me. In the regular season, in particular, I think he would create a match-up problem for other teams on the fourth line.

I'm really concerned, though, when it comes crunch time and other teams start playing for keeps. You get to the playoffs and either the other team ALSO has a good fourth line or they shorten their bench and he's playing against better competition.

The argument with the latter circumstance is he might keep the Flyers fresher than that opponent. But with his defensive liability he would likely do more harm than good (in both above circumstances).

And all of this is just next year. Not the years after that when his decline is accelerating.

If they're stuck with him, what you're saying is definitely the way to go, IMO. But if they have any chance to move him I have to think that chance expires this summer.

[jammer2]

  Jack to Chole....."get the sec def on the phone, Vinny has a bomb strapped to him, fans will detonate it if they don't get their way!"

[brelic]

  Jack to Chole....."get the sec def on the phone, Vinny has a bomb strapped to him, fans will detonate it if they don't get their way!"

 

LOL!

[radoran]

He didn't "score at a higher pace" on the 4th line. Most of his goals qere on the PP and in sixth man action in empty net time.

The "VLC is.effective on the 4th" line would be exposed early and often next season.

A boneheaded signing with at best a tarnished silver lining.

[pilldoc]

  Jack to Chole....."get the sec def on the phone, Vinny has a bomb strapped to him, fans will detonate it if they don't get their way!"

 

LOL..... Brilliant!   

Edited June 14, 2014 by pilldoc

[jammer2]

A boneheaded signing with at best a tarnished silver lining.

 

 The only silver lining I can see is to learn from the mistake, and since the man responsible is no longer at the making the calls, that is gonna have to do. Will anyone take VLC off our hands?  I would guess he has to prove he's healthy first (ie productive or at least non injured pre-season and early season games). Someone was interested in Gomez after he only scored one goal in the previous season, but I think he was bought out and was a UFA....but not sure. Flyers might have to take on half his salary and kick in a late round draft pick. I was warning everyone of VLC's injury history and the fact he took off long stretches during the season....so no big surprise for me, sorry to be right in this case.

[Samifan]

The Flyers will find a taker for VLC because moving him is a top priority for Hextall and he Flyers will end up splitting his salary with the other team. As long as VLC provides a few teams for Hextall to work with, it will get done.

[Howie58]

I hope we learn some lessons from this experience and stop going after 30+ players to add luster to when on average they seem to detract from overall capacity. There will always be bad signings. Glen Sather of the Rangers has had more than his fair share. But our interest in antiques has to stop. Maybe this is the "sliver lining" Rad speaks of. 

 

Howie

[murraycraven]

I hope we learn some lessons from this experience and stop going after 30+ players to add luster to when on average they seem to detract from overall capacity. There will always be bad signings. Glen Sather of the Rangers has had more than his fair share. But our interest in antiques has to stop. Maybe this is the "sliver lining" Rad speaks of. 

 

Howie

 

from your fingers to God's ears Howie... Amen with everything you said!

[Howie58]

Good Morning!

If you Google "learning organization" you'll see a lot. Some organizations learn from their mistakes. Some don't.

Best,

Howie

[fanaticV3.0]

He'll he scored at like 4 times the pace on the 4th and make Akeson look good.

Why not roll a 4th line and give Some of the youth a chance to learn to score and check?

I also feel like he'll be less of a defensive liability at center for a full season rather than at a random wing of the moment.

This is of course a worst case scenario. Move him if you can!

 

 

I'm with you. Move him if you can, but if you're stuck with him put him on the 4th with a good character guy and a kid trying to prove himself. Hall and Akeson might make good line mates for him.

 

I hate the notion that you have to do something just because that's the way it's always been done. You don't have to have a 4th line with a bunch of nobodies. That's bullsh!t.

Edited June 16, 2014 by fanaticV3.0

[brelic]

I hate the notion that you have to do something just because that's the way it's always been done. You don't have to have a 4th line with a bunch of nobodies. That's bullsh!t.

 

I'm guessing that it's probably not a great idea, from the Flyers perspective, to have a guy with Lecavalier's history making $4.5M as a 4th liner. It's probably pretty embarrassing for him, especially if he feels he's got more in the tank, and there's the question of whether or not he would be happy playing 10-12 minutes per night on the 4th line. 

 

I'm sure those are the kinds of conversations they've had with him/his agent, and it sounds like they're ok with moving him to a better situation for both parties. 

[fanaticV3.0]

I'm guessing that it's probably not a great idea, from the Flyers perspective, to have a guy with Lecavalier's history making $4.5M as a 4th liner. It's probably pretty embarrassing for him, especially if he feels he's got more in the tank, and there's the question of whether or not he would be happy playing 10-12 minutes per night on the 4th line. 

 

I'm sure those are the kinds of conversations they've had with him/his agent, and it sounds like they're ok with moving him to a better situation for both parties. 

 

F-ck that sh!t. F-ck it from top-to-bottom. That's the same kind of mentality that runs guys like Desjardins and Timonen into the ground; both of whom I absolutely love as players, but were used as a #1 far too long. I like Timonen so much as a player I'm glad they signed his old ass for another year. I still think he's a decent player, especially with this defensive corps. But I'm a big believer in using players the right way and I don't think teams do that often enough. Just because a guy isn't what he used to be doesn't mean he is worthless; but it sure as sh!t doesn't mean you should play him like the #1 he used to be. It's moronic.

 

1. There's the reality of the situation. He's coming off of what is considered a disappointing season. Given that and his salary, if they can even move him, that's something of a minor miracle. If you can trade him then do it, I just don't see why anyone would be interested in him, so I think you have to play it like he's going to be in the line up next year.

 

2. Try and tell me that a line consisting of a combination Hall, Rinaldo, Rosehill, McGinn, and VanWhateverHisNameIs is better than having VLC in that mix. The whole notion that your 4th line has to consist of guys who "are muckers and gridners (which is a nice way of saying they don't contribute) is fundamentally flawed. You build the best team you can.

[brelic]

F-ck that ****. F-ck it from top-to-bottom. That's the same kind of mentality that runs guys like Desjardins and Timonen into the ground; both of whom I absolutely love as players, but were used as a #1 far too long. I like Timonen so much as a player I'm glad they signed his old ass for another year. I still think he's a decent player, especially with this defensive corps. But I'm a big believer in using players the right way and I don't think teams do that often enough. Just because a guy isn't what he used to be doesn't mean he is worthless; but it sure as **** doesn't mean you should play him like the #1 he used to be. It's moronic.

 

I get what you're saying, but it might more about the gap between what the team thinks of Vinny (4th line center?) and what Vinny thinks he is (2nd line center, I'm guessing). There are certainly teams where he can fill that role - regardless of whether or not he actually lives up to that role. Some teams are just weaker up the middle and would be willing to take a chance on a stopgap. He does bring a wealth of experience with him too. 

 

So the smart conversation to have between Hextall / Berube and Vinny is about his expected role. That lays the cards on the table, and is what professional organizations do. That gives Vinny a chance to mull it over, and if he says he thinks he can play at a higher level that they're offering, he may be willing to accept a trade. In any case, the expectations are clear, and Vinny would have no excuse to be 'unhappy' in his role if he stays in Philly.

[jammer2]

  Maybe I'm just stating the obvious here, but playing Vinny on the 4th line is square peg in a round hole syndrome. He's a defensive liability, does not hustle, does not pursue the puck with reckless abandon, does not hit, can't sustain a forecheck....these are all prerequisites to playing the 4th line in the NHL. If you can't do those things, the Flyers will be at a disadvantage. I say sit him in the pressbox until his ego hurts to the point where he begs to be traded.

[fanaticV3.0]

  Maybe I'm just stating the obvious here, but playing Vinny on the 4th line is square peg in a round hole syndrome. He's a defensive liability, does not hustle, does not pursue the puck with reckless abandon, does not hit, can't sustain a forecheck....these are all prerequisites to playing the 4th line in the NHL. If you can't do those things, the Flyers will be at a disadvantage. I say sit him in the pressbox until his ego hurts to the point where he begs to be traded.

 

Who says your 4th line has to be one that plays defense or pursues the puck with reckless abandon? Couturier is already the guy we're leaning towards matching up against other teams best players, so you don't need a guy on the 4th who plays D; and it's a completely misnomer that the 4th line has any impact on the game anyway. It's not like you throw RInaldo or Hall out there when you need the team to play a shutdown game. Just doesn't happen.

 

Now that's dumb.

[fanaticV3.0]

I get what you're saying, but it might more about the gap between what the team thinks of Vinny (4th line center?) and what Vinny thinks he is (2nd line center, I'm guessing). There are certainly teams where he can fill that role - regardless of whether or not he actually lives up to that role. Some teams are just weaker up the middle and would be willing to take a chance on a stopgap. He does bring a wealth of experience with him too. 

 

So the smart conversation to have between Hextall / Berube and Vinny is about his expected role. That lays the cards on the table, and is what professional organizations do. That gives Vinny a chance to mull it over, and if he says he thinks he can play at a higher level that they're offering, he may be willing to accept a trade. In any case, the expectations are clear, and Vinny would have no excuse to be 'unhappy' in his role if he stays in Philly.

 

I'm not concerned with whether he's willing to accept a trade or not. I'm concerned about anyone actually wanting him.

[jammer2]

Who says your 4th line has to be one that plays defense or pursues the puck with reckless abandon? Couturier is already the guy we're leaning towards matching up against other teams best players, so you don't need a guy on the 4th who plays D; and it's a completely misnomer that the 4th line has any impact on the game anyway. It's not like you throw RInaldo or Hall out there when you need the team to play a shutdown game. Just doesn't happen.

 

Now that's dumb.

  Insert a soft, lazy guy into the 4th line role and your team is at a disadvantage. The 4th line is not intended to score, although it's a nice bonus when it does. There main purpose is to win the puck battles, try to maintain puck possession, try to take some steam out of opposing defensemen by obliterating them....and in general keep the puck out of their own end while you keep more talented players off the score sheet. I don't see how VLC's game accomplishes any of those things. Why would you even want a 5 million dollar player chipping in 6-8 minutes a game? VLC would get no where near the limited point production he had last year. Most of the 4th line starts are in their own end.

[Vanflyer]

At least Phaneuf is a legitimate top pairing guy that would help stabilize the defense until our young guys get their feet wet.

 

I just spit up a bit. come on. Phaneuf is like Kessler: overrated. 

[brelic]

I just spit up a bit. come on. Phaneuf is like Kessler: overrated. 

 

Sure he's overrated, but so are Vinny and MacDonald (in the Flyers eyes and contract values).

 

So it's a big ol' swap of overrated players

[radoran]

The 4th line is not intended to score, although it's a nice bonus when it does

 

fanatic seems to me to be saying that rigidly defining the "fourth" line in such a manner can be counterproductive, depending on your team's make up.

 

Would it be such a terrible, horrible, no good, awful thing to have four effective lines that can score?

[jammer2]

fanatic seems to me to be saying that rigidly defining the "fourth" line in such a manner can be counterproductive, depending on your team's make up.

 

Would it be such a terrible, horrible, no good, awful thing to have four effective lines that can score?

 

 Nah, it would not be a horrible thing, but if you wanna pull that off, you still have to have defensively responsible players manning the 4th line. Especially if they play more, which sounds like you are proposing. These guys are usually matched up against top 6 forwards, so nice to have scoring, but their main task is to keep the other team off the score sheet and provide energy and aggression. Where does Vinny fit in any of those scenarios?