No takers on Vinny?

[aziz]

Nah, it would not be a horrible thing, but if you wanna pull that off, you still have to have defensively responsible players manning the 4th line. Especially if they play more, which sounds like you are proposing. These guys are usually matched up against top 6 forwards, so nice to have scoring, but their main task is to keep the other team off the score sheet and provide energy and aggression. Where does Vinny fit in any of those scenarios?

Imo, the primary purpose of the 4th line is to kill time while the top 3 lines rest, and to warehouse the team's specialists, be they punch-people-in-the-face specialists or PP specialists. If you can get some extra benefit out of them as a unit, so much the better. But it's gravy.

[jammer2]

@aziz  Yep, and that is the way most teams approach the 4th line. It's dangerous to alter from it, cause it would give opposing teams free passes into the Flyers defensive zone. A 4th scoring line would not have dogged puck pursuit, or make the opposition pay the price and wear them down. Let's not forget Rinaldo twice last year knocked out 2 opposing d-men in games,....games which the Flyers went on to win. That won't show up on any stat sheet, but was just as important as any goal in those games. You need sandpaper in this league and VLC would provide none of that. I'd rather have Rinaldo's hits than the 2 measley winning goals VLC had last year. Yeah, he scored 20 goals, but many of them were garbage goals, long after a win or a loss was imminent.

[King Knut]

More than being an antique, Vinny very obviously needed to play at center. Old dog, new tricks, yadda yadda.

I hope we learn some lessons from this experience and stop going after 30+ players to add luster to when on average they seem to detract from overall capacity. There will always be bad signings. Glen Sather of the Rangers has had more than his fair share. But our interest in antiques has to stop. Maybe this is the "sliver lining" Rad speaks of.

Howie

[ZeZel25]

I have a risky type deal for Vinny. Trade Vinny back too Tampa for Ryan Malone. Cap hit is the same but Malone only has 1 year on it, A LW. Flyers probably have to add something, unless they eat cash in the deal. If they dont eat cash, another player or picks are involved. Not sure if it will ever happen but I always liked Malone. A hard nosed, honest player who can score some goal and fight if needed

[Samifan]

I think Malone's time in the league may be coming to an end, dude has a drug and alcohol problem.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/ryan-malone-charged-with-dui-cocaine-possession-1.2608060

Edited June 20, 2014 by Samifan

[mojo1917]

I have a risky type deal for Vinny. Trade Vinny back too Tampa for Ryan Malone. Cap hit is the same but Malone only has 1 year on it, A LW. Flyers probably have to add something, unless they eat cash in the deal. If they dont eat cash, another player or picks are involved. Not sure if it will ever happen but I always liked Malone. A hard nosed, honest player who can score some goal and fight if needed

4 years ago . yes.

 

today ... no thanks.

 

what @Samifan said.

[ZeZel25]

I think Malone's time in the league may be coming to an end, dude has a drug and alcohol problem.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/ryan-malone-charged-with-dui-cocaine-possession-1.2608060

 He can be over that. Look at Bob Probert, He served 3 months in prison, then 3 months in a halfway house and he resumed his career. If they monitor him, let him play. We all make mistakes, except for me of course hehehe

[aziz]

@

 

probert was in his mid-20s, wasn't he?  malone is 35, and already on the distinct downside of his career.  don't know he bounces back quite the same.

[ruxpin]

A hard nosed, honest player

 

Well, I would have referenced something about the nose, but "hard" wouldn't have been the adjective.

[ruxpin]

don't know he bounces back quite the same.

 

Doesn't the bounce get better the higher you get?

[ZeZel25]

@

 

probert was in his mid-20s, wasn't he?  malone is 35, and already on the distinct downside of his career.  don't know he bounces back quite the same.

He might not bounce back the same, but he should be given the chance if he's trying

[Vanflyer]

Where does Vinny fit in any of those scenarios?

 

VLC and defensive responsibility is an oxy-moron, right?? 

[ruxpin]

VLC and defensive responsibility is an oxy-moron, right??

Or, you know, just a moron

[Vanflyer]

Imo, the primary purpose of the 4th line is to kill time while the top 3 lines rest, and to warehouse the team's specialists, be they punch-people-in-the-face specialists or PP specialists. If you can get some extra benefit out of them as a unit, so much the better. But it's gravy.

 

agree and the point that most are missing iis the do-ra-mi. In a non cap world with a cash rich team like the Flyers, its no big deal. But in a cap world, to pay 4.5m for a guy that is marginal at best in ANY role is suicide. That salary alone pays for the entire 4th line (with extra for some filet mignon').

 

Let the preds take him off our hands. 

[radoran]

Let the preds take him off our hands. 

 

PLEASE let VLC decide that going to play with the coach he was signed to play with before being fired a handful of games into his first season is a better option than staying here.

 

PLEASE.

[OccamsRazor]

Let the preds take him off our hands. 

 

 

From your lips to God's ears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vanflyer]

PLEASE let VLC decide that going to play with the coach he was signed to play with before being fired a handful of games into his first season is a better option than staying here.

 

Not to bash Berube, but I think VLC would really benefit from playing in Lavys run and gun style. The big thing is do they have the supporting wingers to compliment him.  Lavy has already proven his ability to kiss a veterans players arse when they are not going, so VLC would not have to worry about the whipping post. 

Edited June 23, 2014 by Vanflyer

[fanaticV3.0]

  Insert a soft, lazy guy into the 4th line role and your team is at a disadvantage. The 4th line is not intended to score, although it's a nice bonus when it does. There main purpose is to win the puck battles, try to maintain puck possession, try to take some steam out of opposing defensemen by obliterating them....and in general keep the puck out of their own end while you keep more talented players off the score sheet. I don't see how VLC's game accomplishes any of those things. Why would you even want a 5 million dollar player chipping in 6-8 minutes a game? VLC would get no where near the limited point production he had last year. Most of the 4th line starts are in their own end.

 

Don't give me this "not intended to" crap. No player's job is to not score. It's BS for "not good enough" to score. You want to keep the puck out of your own zone? Get good offensive players. That includes the 4th line.

Edited June 23, 2014 by fanaticV3.0

[aziz]

Don't give me this "not intended to" crap. No player's job is to not score. It's BS for "not good enough" to score.

 

sure, if you want to put it that way.  typically, the 4th line is for players who aren't defensively awesome, but are "not good enough" to score.  and that's ok.  the fourth line is for players you are comfortable only giving 5-10 minutes a night, but have enough faith in that they aren't going to give up a million goals over those few minutes.  that is the point.  

 

if you want an expensive 4th line that can score with the best of them, and want them to carry their full share of ice time, then you are reducing giroux's icetime to 15minutes/night.  couturier's, too.  everyone's.  if you want those actually high end players to get 18 minutes, someone else has to skate less.  the 4th line provides the elastic so that can happen.  they fill as much time as needed, and no more.

[fanaticV3.0]

sure, if you want to put it that way.  typically, the 4th line is for players who aren't defensively awesome, but are "not good enough" to score.  and that's ok.  the fourth line is for players you are comfortable only giving 5-10 minutes a night, but have enough faith in that they aren't going to give up a million goals over those few minutes.  that is the point.  

 

if you want an expensive 4th line that can score with the best of them, and want them to carry their full share of ice time, then you are reducing giroux's icetime to 15minutes/night.  couturier's, too.  everyone's.  if you want those actually high end players to get 18 minutes, someone else has to skate less.  the 4th line provides the elastic so that can happen.  they fill as much time as needed, and no more.

 

is for players who cost the least. It's got nothing to do with mucking and grinding, keeping the puck out of our own zone, or some other cliche hockey phrase meant to sugarcoat the fact that 4th liners are barely NHL players. Nobody goes out of their way to get guys like that because they need them.

[aziz]

@fanaticV3.0

 

agreed.

[jammer2]

Don't give me this "not intended to" crap. No player's job is to not score. It's BS for "not good enough" to score. You want to keep the puck out of your own zone? Get good offensive players. That includes the 4th line.

 

 There is one big flaw in your plan. Good offensive players that cannot maintain possession are useless in a 4th line role. Sure, the puck will be in the other teams end....for a brief flash, then Vinny will give up the puck cause he's not willing to take a bonecrushing hit to maintain possession. The missing part of the equation is players *must* have heart to play on the 4th line. They are there for a good time, not a long time as the song goes....either that or as aziz says, you take time away from more talented players in the top 6.

[doom88]

is for players who cost the least. It's got nothing to do with mucking and grinding, keeping the puck out of our own zone, or some other cliche hockey phrase meant to sugarcoat the fact that 4th liners are barely NHL players. Nobody goes out of their way to get guys like that because they need them.

Partially agreed, only because I believe in a 4th line center who is strong on FO and PK.

Blair Betts and Adam Hall, while replaceable, were very helpful.

It's not a top priority, but sure shouldn't be ignored.

[fanaticV3.0]

 There is one big flaw in your plan. Good offensive players that cannot maintain possession are useless in a 4th line role. Sure, the puck will be in the other teams end....for a brief flash, then Vinny will give up the puck cause he's not willing to take a bonecrushing hit to maintain possession. The missing part of the equation is players *must* have heart to play on the 4th line. They are there for a good time, not a long time as the song goes....either that or as aziz says, you take time away from more talented players in the top 6.

 

Good offensive players that cannot maintain puck possession and not willing to take a hit are useless (defensively) regardless of what line they are one. The 4th line has nothing to do with it.

[Mad Dog]

Good offensive players that cannot maintain puck possession and not willing to take a hit are useless (defensively) regardless of what line they are one. The 4th line has nothing to do with it.

 

Sure.  But if their offensive skills/production offset them being a defensive liability, that alone is often enough for a team to justify not only keeping those players but paying their hefty salary.  Kovalchuk is a prime example.  The guy was doing absolutely ZERO defensively, but was one of the most offensively gifted players in the league.  And there are tons of other examples to support this.