OccamsRazor Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Can that work today? Yes it can work today but as was noted it won't get you to the cup. Just watch the 4 teams left playing for the Cup they don't have those types. It should be the model the Flyers are working for. 18 skaters with one common goal play all out for 60 minutes everyone skating and playing with or without the puck. Flyers are close their blueline is just lagging behind not having 6 complete all around defenseman....but they are getting there...once GrossmanN and Luke have moved on they will be much closer i imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Essentially, what he learned last year was that if your name is Jordan Eberle or Sam Gagner, it's quite alright to blow the zone early and hang out near centre ice or not even glance over your shoulder in your own end, but that if your name is Nail Yakupov and you do that, you'll be benched and called out. I won't even get into Justin Schultz.In that sense, the coach mis-handled the kid.Good point. I guess the one thing sticking out to me with it is neither Gagner nor Eberle (nor schultz) managed the rather phenomenal -33 yakupov did. Still, point taken. There is an overall culture problem in Edmonton, and I guess there are a couple different ways to try to fix it. Yakupov maybe was scapegoats a bit. He was the worst of the bunch, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Good point. I guess the one thing sticking out to me with it is neither Gagner nor Eberle (nor schultz) managed the rather phenomenal -33 yakupov did.Still, point taken. There is an overall culture problem in Edmonton, and I guess there are a couple different ways to try to fix it. Yakupov maybe was scapegoats a bit. He was the worst of the bunch, though. -Gagner was right there with Yakupov: -29. Eberle much less so with a -11, but he also played most of his time with th3 6th leading scorer in the league. That helps.-I think there's a problem too, and probably has more than a little to do with the team going through so many coaches in rapid order. Can you imagine being a teenager and transitioning to the NHL with a new coach and new tactics to learn every year? Must be difficult. To use Sam Gagner as an example, he's had 5 coaches in 7 seasons. That leads us to Dallas Eakins saying "I had to change the swarm. My mistake: I thought NHL players would have some grasp of defensive zone knowledge". He was rightfully frustrated.-Yakupov WAS the worst of the bunch. I agree with that. Definitely not the second coming of Bab Gainey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Here is todays write-up by Bill M on Coburn. Pretty much sums it up perfectly IMO: The Flyers will trade Braydon Coburn to (most likely Edmonton) for (fill in name of promising but unproven young player). My response to this is, "Tell me the plan for adequately replacing Coburn and also acquiring additional upgrades on defense."The Flyers are NOT in rebuilding mode. They still fully expect to be a playoff team again next season and trading Coburn would not be conducive to that plan. The team is looking to ADD to its blueline, not to delete a key piece or do the equivalent of taking one step backward and one step forward to essentially remain in the same place.Coburn is not a star. He runs hot and cold over the course of the season and is sometimes prone to ill-timed gaffes. Nevertheless, he is not easily replaced right now. Coburn is the Flyers' most mobile defenseman and their ONLY one who has both size and skating ability; the others have one or the other -- or at least a high level of savvy and good puck skills -- but not both. Additionally, he is a durable player who eats a lot of minutes and rarely misses time with injury.Lastly, Coburn is signed for two more seasons -- not one. Right now, on a leaguewide basis, $4.5 million for a defenseman who plays the number of minutes Coburn does is increasingly becoming a very reasonable cap hit. Hell, even Nicklas Grossmann's $3.5 million is representative of the marketplace for veteran shot-blocking types (for instance, Willie Mitchell and Rob Scuderi's deals were right in that same range).Building through youth is desirable. However, the Flyers have no one internally who can absorb Coburn's minutes. There are no NHL-ready prospects who can step in and be 20-plus minute players right now. It's debatable if any are even ready to be 14-minute players on an every game basis.Adding another unproven defenseman to the roster via trade could be good for system depth and pay off in the long term. However, in the short term, removing Coburn and replacing him with someone still going through his early-career learning curve would also probably hurt the Flyers playoff chances. His replacement would have to be ready to absorb a significant role.At last year's Draft in New Jersey, the Flyers and Oilers had extensive discussions that were widely said to revolve around Coburn. The Flyers did not pull the trigger because the Oilers weren't offering enough in return for Philly to withstand the loss of Coburn. The same thing probably applies this season as far as the Oilers are concerned.As I see it, the ONLY way the Flyers will trade Coburn this offseason is either if it is one piece of a bigger deal to upgrade the defense or a separate trade that will be announced in close proximity to a blockbuster move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Yakupov is looking like he could be the new Zherdev...pass. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 if MacDonald got $5 then you have to think Niskanen is worth at least $11 If you had your druthers, whowould you choose from this list: P. MartinA. EdlerS. GoncharZ. BogasianN. KronwallD. WiidemanL. VisnovskyK. YandleJ. Boumeister ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 pass. Well.....if he has some primeau vodka, I would not snicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 If you had your druthers, whowould you choose from this list:P. MartinA. EdlerS. GoncharZ. BogasianN. KronwallD. WiidemanL. VisnovskyK. YandleJ. Boumeister???Good lord what a list. For those just joining our program, keep in mind that the game is that I *have* to pick one. Not that I actually want any of them. Assuming the contact terms would be equal in this exercise my first choice would be Kronwall just because I've always liked his shtick. I just don't think that's necessarily what the Flyers need right now. I used to really like Wideman on the Bruins. If we could get THAT player then him. Sadly, that player no longer exists. I guess all other things being equal it might be Martin. When we return to reality and start talking what these guys would need to be paid and the cap implications, I can't say I'm thrilled with any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 @aziz One thing I've noticed about Yakupov is there is no blazing speed. He's a good skater, but not even close to a dominant skater. Very weird for a 1st pick overall forward to not have lightning speed built into his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 If you had your druthers, whowould you choose from this list: P. MartinA. EdlerS. GoncharZ. BogasianN. KronwallD. WiidemanL. VisnovskyK. YandleJ. Boumeister ??? 1)Kronwall 2)Yandle 3)Bouwmeester 4)Bogo, just based on potential that I think we have not seen yet, due to injuries and some other variables. Next year is a big year for him, time to put up or shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 When we return to reality and start talking what these guys would need to be paid and the cap implications, I can't say I'm thrilled with any of them. Thanks for playing. And therein lies the problem. All those players I listed are comparable s to coburn cap wise. Grass is always greener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 1)Kronwall 2)Yandle 3)Bouwmeester Kronwall would probably be my choice too, but he is getting long on the tooth. Yandle would probably be the guy I would take, thought he did lay down an astonishing -23 this past season on a defense oriented Coyotes team. I will just write that off as an anomaly as he had not performed that way prior in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 If you had your druthers, whowould you choose from this list: P. MartinA. EdlerS. GoncharZ. BogasianN. KronwallD. WiidemanL. VisnovskyK. YandleJ. Boumeister ???Hmmmm......interesting. I always liked Paul Martin when he was in New Jersey. However, he seems to have taken a beating since going to Pittsburgh and watching him, he's really digressed over the past couple of years. Alex Edler had one of the league's worst plus/minus last year, but I think the Canucks will see how he responds to a new coach before they consider moving him. Sergei Gonchar is old and shouldn't even be a consideration. Zach Bogosian has the highest upside of the bunch, but he really struggles with injuries and hasn't played a full season in four years. Plus, there's consistency issues with Bogosian. Kronwall is a good defensemen, but his physical style is going to start catching up with him soon. You can't play the way he does without it taking a toll on you later on. Dennis Wideman is still in the NHL? Lubomir Visnovsky - see Sergei Gonchar. Keith Yandle would definitely add some offensive punch to the back end, but he really needs a very strong defensive defenseman to play along side him because his defense is attrocious. As for Bouwmeester, he's got the luxury of playing alongside one of the best young defensemen in the game in Alex Pietrangelo and he also plays in a very defensively rigid and oriented system that Ken Hitchcock employs. Honestly, the best thing Hextall can do is look around the league and look for a guy who's ready to break through at the next level. A guy like Brandon Gormley would be ideal. I'd also like to see them explore the possibility of a guy like Jake Gardiner, who for some reason or another has fallen into Randy Carlyle's dog house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Honestly, the best thing Hextall can do is look around the league and look for a guy who's ready to break through at the next level. Sort of, like, you know - a young Braydon Coburn... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Sort of, like, you know - a young Braydon Coburn... Young Braydon Coburn I didn't have a problem with. The moment he took that puck to the face in the Pittsburgh series in 2007 - 2008, he became a completely different player afterwards. That really messed him up because he's never been the same since. He shows glimpses of greatness, but nothing ever consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 The moment he took that puck to the face in the Pittsburgh series in 2007 - 2008, he became a completely different player afterwards Yes it seems that not only did it damage his eye but his brain as well.....and it is still lingering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) I can't find the "mock draft" created by "Oilers insiders" about who the Flyers will draft. Again, it's been a while since these guys have had to cover a legitimate NHL franchise. How about this trade Coburn to the Oilers for their 3rd overall and then trade the 3rd and 17th along with Brayden and Luke for the 1st overall??? Edited June 19, 2014 by radoran split from the BSchenn thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 How about this trade Coburn to the Oilers for their 3rd overall and then trade the 3rd and 17th along with Brayden and Luke for the 1st overall??? Ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Ouch! Yeah it's a lot but you have to pay to play right. It would remove a slow Dman and free of over 8 mill in cap space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 How about this trade Coburn to the Oilers for their 3rd overall and then trade the 3rd and 17th along with Brayden and Luke for the 1st overall??? WAY overpaying. WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY overpaying. If I'm Florida I do that in a heartbeat. If I'm Edmonton, I'm not giving you the third for Coburn. If I'm Coburn, I'm not waiving to go play in Edmonton no matter where my vacation home is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intheslot Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 How about Vinny and Colburn for the #3 pick ??? Oil haven't had much luck with their picks .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 How about this trade Coburn to the Oilers for their 3rd overall and then trade the 3rd and 17th along with Brayden and Luke for the 1st overall???Flyers brass will never go for it unless you give away a 2nd rounder too....oh wait Homer's not the GM anymore, nevermind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) If I'm Edmonton, I'm not giving you the third for Coburn. If Jay-Bo can net a 1st round pick and two prospects Coburn is surely worth just a 3rd overall. "WAY overpaying. WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY overpaying." So you're saying a 3rd and 17th should be enough???? Edited June 18, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 If Jay-Bo can net a 1st round pick and two prospects Coburn is surely worth just a 3rd overall. J Bo went for #22 overall, a guy who has played 8 games and 9-17-2, 2.97,. 897 Reto Barra... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 J Bo went for #22 overall, a guy who has played 8 games and 9-17-2, 2.97,. 897 Reto Barra... Ok dear hockey-draft-trading-God tell me what would you deem worthy your excellency!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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