mojo1917 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 People make it seem really cut and dry like Carter and Richards won "our Cup" in LA. That's not what happened. i like the whole post in general grump ,,but want to add, people rarely like to think in "nuance" so cut and dry it is...it is a shame that in a medium where there is literally and figuratively no limit to how much or how little one can espouse on a subject we still find ourselves, looking for the perfect sentence , the perfect sound bite. More than one thing can be true just not on a fan message board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 @radoran Was just going off his World Jr performance. He played center there and looked like he was born to play the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Carter has seemed to thrive in LA but Richy really has dropped off in LA. Philly won that trade hands down. Would we want him if LA buys him out I am on the fence with this one. If philly can get rid of Vinny and have Richy center Scott and Akeson would not be bad. I think LA is in the same bucket as the Flyers regarding Centers. Too many. And the centers they have that Richards fills a role for have surpassed him (tifolli / stoll). Combine that with the price tag and I can see why LA fans are a bit discontented. I think Richards is still a fine player. I do not think he was what he once was- for whatever reason. That said, I think he can be an integral cog to an up-and-coming team, even at his price tag. I think you see him moved this summer and the destination will definitely not be in the O&B (that ship has done sailed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Sadly, I think the injuries will be a regular thing with Mike...so gotta pass. Why would we need him anyway?? I like his grit and all that, but I will take a flyer on him. Let him go to some place that needs veteran leadership, can play second or third fiddle (not fourth or fifth like LA - OR Philly). 4m is too steep for what he brings these days (at least in the Flyers realm). That said, I will gladly exchange VLC for Richards everyday of the week and twice on sunday. I will drive BOTH cars!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Anybody remember what we got for him? We got that Vodka drinking, cigarette smoking Markov!!! :-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Because 27 out of 10 LA fans "lose" that trade eight days a week and six times on Sunday. Ughhhh, are we really going to go down this road AGAIN??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Laughton has to even begin to show he can play in this league before anyone should be "worried" about whether or not his "way" is "blocked." While not a swamy, I think the intent of listing Laughton is a much cheaper version of Richards (yet not NHL proved). Two birds in hand are better than one in the bush- so to speak. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Richards is an experienced 5.75M per year 4th liner. Fixed it for ya. Yet, if I am going to choose my overpaid 4th liners, Richards wins hands down over VLC. And that with a 20% increase in pay. All you need to know about VLC is stated right there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I take Richards in a trade if Vinny and GrossmanN are headed the other way!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Those 2 players helped them get over the hump and the 4 new guys are rebuilding our core. That should be the end of the discussion right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 People make it seem really cut and dry like Carter and Richards won "our Cup" in LA. That's not what happened. But it's not "not" what happened, either. They were both integral parts of two Cup teams 1 and 3 years after the trades. There's no getting around that. It's like arguing that the Flyers "won" the Lindros trade because they got the "better" player. I mean - yippee! Woo! Yay! What's the parade route in Los Angeles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 That should be the end of the discussion right there. The "end" of the discussion is the Flyers' next two Cups with this "core" There is no other end. The Flyers made it so. There is one measure in who "won" and it has nothing to do with win percentage or playoff appearances. Win the Cup or don't. That's it. The Flyers themselves say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 There is one measure in who "won" and it has nothing to do with win percentage or playoff appearances. Win the Cup or don't. That's it. The Flyers themselves say so. I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. If not, let me know before I go on my diatribe. cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. If not, let me know before I go on my diatribe. cheers. I've said from the moment the trades went down that the Flyers got the better players. I've said it again and again and again and again. I think they got the better players out of the deals. Then. Now. And I'm not going to change that. "Better players" isn't the issue. Winning the Cup is. Again, listen to anyone in the NHL. You can have the "better players" but if the result isn't WINNING then it's ****amn ***king meaningless in the long term. It "made sense" to trade for Danny Markov. Justin Williams has three Cups and a Conn Smythe. Danny Markov wasn't re-signed. You think Mark Recchi stays up nights worrying about not winning in Philadelphia? He might - but then he looks at his Cup tattoo and sleeps the rest of the weekend. Don't give me "Flyers won the trades" until they actually win something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 They were both integral parts of two Cup teams 1 and 3 years after the trades. Yup and both were integral parts of the Flyers reaching lofty heights in the playoffs as well. So what. It is what it is. I could have sworn this horse has been beaten to death so much that even the sire of the horse is starting to get beat. Two players do not win you a cup. End of discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Yup and both were integral parts of the Flyers reaching lofty heights in the playoffs as well. So what. It is what it is. I could have sworn this horse has been beaten to death so much that even the sire of the horse is starting to get beat. Two players do not win you a cup. End of discussion. I haven't started any of the "Jeff Carter" or "Patrick Kane" or etc., etc., etc. threads on this board. I'm not the one beating it to death. I'm the one saying it's a ****amn zombie until the Flyers win and shoot it in the ***king head. This is a discussion board. There IS no "end of discussion." And, truth be told, you're not a fool that believes that there is. No one wants to "win trades" and not WIN A CUP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I've said from the moment the trades went down that the Flyers got the better players. I've said it again and again and again and again. I think they got the better players out of the deals. Then. Now. And I'm not going to change that. "Better players" isn't the issue. Winning the Cup is. Again, listen to anyone in the NHL. You can have the "better players" but if the result isn't WINNING then it's ****amn ***king meaningless in the long term. It "made sense" to trade for Danny Markov. Justin Williams has three Cups and a Conn Smythe. Danny Markov wasn't re-signed. You think Mark Recchi stays up nights worrying about not winning in Philadelphia? He might - but then he looks at his Cup tattoo and sleeps the rest of the weekend. Don't give me "Flyers won the trades" until they actually win something. I actually wasn't giving you that line at all (someone else was and opened up the can of worms AGAIN). Who knows, maybe the two win a cup in Philly. I am neither a fortune teller, nor do I have a time machine. All I know is that its done. Would have, could have, should have are for *******. You pull the trigger for better or worse. But because I can't resist: the flyers had little supporting cast for the "dynamic" duo when in philly. No Doughty (who is the best dman in the league), no quick, who is arguably in the top 5 goalies in the league, no Kopitar who is arguably in the top 5 centers in the league, no brown who is arguably in the top 5 center / agitators in the league. I can go on and on. The Flyers had none of that surrounding Carter / Richards. Carter / Richards were both supporting cast members in the first cup. Carter shone this year (sutter sure has his game going), richards meh. So what? At the end of the day, there are 19 spots to fill in the forward position. figuring out the round pegs for round holes and square pegs / square holes is not an easy science. LA figured it out. The travesty is not in the Carter (whom we did not even trade to LA) or Richards trade, but in letting BOTH Lombardi AND Hextall go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Richards will not come back here. The guy is still a hit surly about being traded by Philly.... And we don't need another centet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 But because I can't resist: the flyers had little supporting cast for the "dynamic" duo when in philly. No Doughty (who is the best dman in the league), Aside from Chris Pronger, you mean. I can take the "Pronger injury" line of thought a heluva lot easier than the sour grapes that Flyers fans spin about the fact that Jeff Carter and Mike Richards are on the Cup as many times as Bobby Clarke and Bernie Parent. Which just points out the ridiculous decision of pinning their hopes to a 35-year-old defenceman and dropping the two young guns they had committed the franchise to prior to the trades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 That should be the end of the discussion right there. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyer1 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Yup and both were integral parts of the Flyers reaching lofty heights in the playoffs as well. So what. It is what it is. I could have sworn this horse has been beaten to death so much that even the sire of the horse is starting to get beat. Two players do not win you a cup. End of discussion. Our Goalie lost the cup to Chicago. Quick had more to do with the win than Carter. JMO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Which just points out the ridiculous decision of pinning their hopes to a 35-year-old defenceman and dropping the two young guns they had committed the franchise to prior to the trades. where was the mistake there? was it committing the franchise to two young guns? was it pinning hopes on a 35 yearold defenseman? was it dropping the two young guns? was it having pronger on the ice to take a stick to the eye socket, something that could just have easily ended the career of a 25 year old as a 35 year old? what exactly was the ridiculous decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 where was the mistake there? was it committing the franchise to two young guns? was it pinning hopes on a 35 yearold defenseman? was it dropping the two young guns? was it having pronger on the ice to take a stick to the eye socket, something that could just have easily ended the career of a 25 year old as a 35 year old? what exactly was the ridiculous decision? The ridiculous "decision" was making new decisions every season. It's the ridiculous decision of filling a short term problem with long term solutions. And then trading or buying out the long term solutions. It was drafting and anointing the "next Bobby Clarke" and then signing him to a 12 year deal and bailing one season removed from a Cup Final. It was then committing the franchise to a 35-year-old with a seven year contract when you, me and everyone else who follows this game knew that he was one injury away from the end of his career. Everyone is, yes. But "everyone" isn't signed to a seven year contract that is still on the books. The "mistake" was committing the franchise to the "two young guns" and then abandoning that commitment two years later. Sure, "it couldn't have happened here" It's just that it has now, in another city. Twice. That just raises the bar in terms of "who won the trades" which, AGAIN, I think the Flyers got the better players out of. So, it's really not just one "mistake" - it was a continual cascade of bad decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I haven't started any of the "Jeff Carter" or "Patrick Kane" or etc., etc., etc. threads on this board. I'm not the one beating it to death. I'm the one saying it's a ****amn zombie until the Flyers win and shoot it in the ***king head. This is a discussion board. There IS no "end of discussion." And, truth be told, you're not a fool that believes that there is. No one wants to "win trades" and not WIN A CUP. Settle down nellie (I mean that in jest). I was not bashing / lambasting you- just more speaking in general (ps. I have had a crappy day, so take that what its worth). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Aside from Chris Pronger, you mean. Truth be told, I think Doughty is better than Pronger. He does not have the snarl / mean streak that pronger has, but he can control the game better than pronger- even when healthy. I mean is it an apples to oranges thing?? Don't get me wrong- I love pronger and all the baggage that comes with him. But, I REALLY like Doughty in this day and age (above Keith and Weaber). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.