Buffalo looking to buy your compliance buyout candidate

[J0e Th0rnton]

http://www.diebytheblade.com/2014/6/12/5803030/2014-nhl-draft-rumors-sabres-looking-to-acquire-another-first-round-pick

 

 

"I can’t imagine I would trade the second overall pick," Murray said. "I’d like to get a couple of more first-round picks and I have those three third-rounders [Ed Note: He means second rounders] to use. I certainly know you can’t trade a second for a first, but you might take some money back in a deal to do that and I do have to get to the (cap) floor. There are different ways to get to the floor so I’m exploring all that."

I read this while browsing rumors all over the place.

 

Apparently, Buffalo may be willing to trade for your compliance buyout candidates, provided you are willing to trade your first round pick for one of their 3 second round picks.

 

It is actually a strangely effective way for them to hit the cap floor and gain Picks. They are like 14 million away from the cap floor, and could take several contracts other teams do not want(Within reason I am sure. No 6 year huge contracts, etc).

 

For instance, San Jose could trade them Havlat(5 million a year cap hit, 1 more year) and their 20th overall 1st round pick for the Buffalo 2nd round 32nd overall.

 

Granted, I am only using San Jose as an example because they are my team. We still have both our buyouts and are not in any trouble. Buy what about teams that have used up their compliance buyouts? This is the last year the amnesty buyout can be used, and some teams are stuck with no way to buyout undesirable contracts.

 

Chicago for instance, used both Amnesty buyouts already and are currently close to the cap and in need to give extensions to Toews and Kane.

 

Thoughts on this?

[brelic]

I wonder if the league will have a problem with this. 

 

On the one hand, it's an interesting strategy on Buffalo's part. On the other, is a 1st round pick worth $20M? $30M? Some of the buyout candidates might reach that amount.

 

Of course, where it gets tricky is if a team trades a player to Buffalo for the purposes of a buyout, and then resigns him for cheaper. Based on the open way in which Buffalo is advertising this, I would think that comes close to circumvention.

 

It will be interesting for sure.

[J0e Th0rnton]

I wonder if the league will have a problem with this. 

 

On the one hand, it's an interesting strategy on Buffalo's part. On the other, is a 1st round pick worth $20M? $30M? Some of the buyout candidates might reach that amount.

 

Of course, where it gets tricky is if a team trades a player to Buffalo for the purposes of a buyout, and then resigns him for cheaper. Based on the open way in which Buffalo is advertising this, I would think that comes close to circumvention.

 

It will be interesting for sure.

I am pretty sure it is illegal to resign them. 

[flyercanuck]

@J0e Th0rnton

 

If Buffalo buys them out (which they'd have to do before July 1st I believe to be amnestied) it won't help the Sabres reach the cap floor. Still not a bad idea if the owner is willing to "buy" first round picks.

[brelic]

I am pretty sure it is illegal to resign them. 

 

Not if Buffalo buys them out. The rule is that a bought out player cannot resign with the team that bought him out during that season.

 

So if the Kings traded Richards and their 1st (30th overall!!) to Buffalo, the Sabres would buy out Richards.

 

Then Richards is free to re-sign with the Kings for cheaper.

[AJgoal]

I am pretty sure it is illegal to resign them. 

 

Only by the team that actually buys them out, and it's illegal for them to re-acquire them for a period of one year following the buyout. But The way I read this, Buffalo would trade a 2nd for Havlat and the 1st and keep him. It would make no sense for Buffalo to then use a compliance buyout on the player because they're trying to reach the cap floor, and the compliance buyout doesn't count. The problem with a player like Havlat is that his current salary exceeds his cap hit. Now with new ownership, Buffalo isn't cash-poor, but you typically think of a team that's trying to reach the floor wanting a player whose salary is lower than his cap hit.

[flyerrod]

I think the gist of this is that Buffalo is looking for Buy Out Candidates before they are actually bought out. So they take the person's contract  instead of that person being  bought out and charge the team needing help a first rounder to boot. Not a bad idea as long as those contracts are not more than a year or 2 from expiring.

[J0e Th0rnton]

@J0e Th0rnton

 

If Buffalo buys them out (which they'd have to do before July 1st I believe to be amnestied) it won't help the Sabres reach the cap floor. Still not a bad idea if the owner is willing to "buy" first round picks.

Reaching the cap floor would mean keeping them. Nothing says they have to buy them out. Merely that they want to buy your buyout candidates at the cost of a first round pick

[flyercanuck]

@J0e Th0rnton

 

 OK, gotcha. I guess as mentioned, if the contracts aren't too long it would make sense. Havlat only has one year left so he wouldn't have a bad influence on Buffalos up and comers. So is it worth a 1st for your team to get rid of him for a year?

[J0e Th0rnton]

@J0e Th0rnton

 

 OK, gotcha. I guess as mentioned, if the contracts aren't too long it would make sense. Havlat only has one year left so he wouldn't have a bad influence on Buffalos up and comers. So is it worth a 1st for your team to get rid of him for a year?

Not sure. We still have 2 buyouts and he is a prime candidate. But so if Stuart, burish and kennedy

[brelic]

I think in a case like Richards in LA, this would be a great trade. 30th overall ain't gonna be much, they just won the Cup, and they can get rid of Richards without spending a single dollar.

 

Richards would give Buffalo a pretty solid 2nd/3rd line center with experience.

 

And we could laugh at him multiple times per season

[flyerrod]

I think in a case like Richards in LA, this would be a great trade. 30th overall ain't gonna be much, they just won the Cup, and they can get rid of Richards without spending a single dollar.

 

Richards would give Buffalo a pretty solid 2nd/3rd line center with experience.

 

And we could laugh at him multiple times per season

That is just evil.....pure unadulterated evil.......Besides, doesn't he have a NTC/NMC in his contract that has got to have kicked in by now meaning he can tell them You ARE buying me out because no way in hell am I going to waive for a trade to Buffalo........ :blink:

[J0e Th0rnton]

That is just evil.....pure unadulterated evil.......Besides, doesn't he have a NTC/NMC in his contract that has got to have kicked in by now meaning he can tell them You ARE buying me out because no way in hell am I going to waive for a trade to Buffalo........ :blink:

Actually, I don't see a NMC or NTC in his contract

[flyercanuck]

@flyerrod

 

 The NTC becomes null and void once he was traded.

[Irishjim]

i think the league would step in and say WOO NELLY this is circumventing the cap. have to admit smart but i can't see them allowing this

 

on 2nd thought can we trade them pronger I can hear rick now..we have pronger nothing gonna stop us now 

Edited June 16, 2014 by Irishjim

[J0e Th0rnton]

i think the league would step in and say WOO NELLY this is circumventing the cap. have to admit smart but i can't see them allowing this

 

on 2nd thought can we trade them pronger I can hear rick now..we have pronger nothing gonna stop us now 

Why? The Sabres won't likely be buying out the players they get. They are merely taking a buyout candidate from a team to move up the draft and hit the cap floor.

 

I understand the way I worded it may be confusing, but they will not necessarily be buying out the player they get for the pick. Merely taking him off another team that is cap strapped's hands.

[ruxpin]

Why would the league not allow this? I haven't the foggiest idea how this is circumventing the cap.

Team A is pushing the cap and trade a guy who is expensive and who they don't want plus their first round pick to a team trying to make the floor for their second round pick.

Where is the circumvention? This is done all the time. Some the second for the first part is a little novel maybe but the theory is nothing new. There is no circumvention here.

I wonder if hextall will call about Vinny. I doubt the Flyers give up their first when they're hosting the draft but... Man, I'd take the get out of jail free card.

[Irishjim]

Why would the league not allow this? I haven't the foggiest idea how this is circumventing the cap.

Team A is pushing the cap and trade a guy who is expensive and who they don't want plus their first round pick to a team trying to make the floor for their second round pick.

Where is the circumvention? This is done all the time. Some the second for the first part is a little novel maybe but the theory is nothing new. There is no circumvention here.

I wonder if hextall will call about Vinny. I doubt the Flyers give up their first when they're hosting the draft but... Man, I'd take the get out of jail free card.

ok 1 question do trades have to be approved by the league..if so i can't see them signing off on a 5mil per year player and a 1st for Buffalo's 2nd. especially if its a team like the flyers who already used there 2 buyouts..I couldn't care less either way but if the league could fine boston 4.5mil in cap space for some shady bonus added to a contract i can't see why they wouldn't step in and say hold on one second.  its only because buffalo has thrown this out there. if it was a super secret handshake deal no issue

[ruxpin]

@Irishjim

I honestly don't see the problem. I also don't see a good correlation between the Boston situation and this.

I mean if a team wants to trade a player for a cornflake I don't see what the league has to do with it.

I actually don't even think this is anything particularly new. Teams have traded cap space for picks or prospects since the cap was instituted. I really don't see the issue.

[ruxpin]

By the way, I think this will go TWO second round picks for the waste of space and a first.

[J0e Th0rnton]

ok 1 question do trades have to be approved by the league..if so i can't see them signing off on a 5mil per year player and a 1st for Buffalo's 2nd. especially if its a team like the flyers who already used there 2 buyouts..I couldn't care less either way but if the league could fine boston 4.5mil in cap space for some shady bonus added to a contract i can't see why they wouldn't step in and say hold on one second.  its only because buffalo has thrown this out there. if it was a super secret handshake deal no issue

That's a bit different dude. The bruins are not being fined. It is written in the CBA that a team is allowed to breach the cap due to bonuses, but the amount must be applied to next year. Because of iginla, Krug and Hamilton reaching their bonuses, they breached 4.5 million.

 

In this case, Buffalo wants to reach the cap floor and would like picks. Thus they need to sign or trade for someone. Some teams are in a corner and need an out, thus Buffalo extends the suggestion that they will take players with contracts you do not want if you give your first round pick for a second. It is no different than giving a player away for future considerations.

 

Is Buffalo going to take a contract like Clarkson off the leafs hands? No, of course not.

 

But a team like Chicago, who already used their buyouts, are almost over the cap already, and need to resign Kane and Toews? Probably would love to trade Bickell to someone to make room. Problem is, nobody wants his contract for the next 3 years at 4 million for a 15 point scoring winger.

 

it is this sort of situation that Buffalo can bank first round picks on. Since the first rounder is lower because the Blackhawks are good, 27th overall, they could probably tell Chicago they will get Minny's 2nd rounder, 49th overall, instead of Buffalo's 31th overall or no deal.

[ruxpin]

That's a bit different dude. The bruins are not being fined. It is written in the CBA that a team is allowed to breach the cap due to bonuses, but the amount must be applied to next year. Because of iginla, Krug and Hamilton reaching their bonuses, they breached 4.5 million.

In this case, Buffalo wants to reach the cap floor and would like picks. Thus they need to sign or trade for someone. Some teams are in a corner and need an out, thus Buffalo extends the suggestion that they will take players with contracts you do not want if you give your first round pick for a second. It is no different than giving a player away for future considerations.

Is Buffalo going to take a contract like Clarkson off the leafs hands? No, of course not.

But a team like Chicago, who already used their buyouts, are almost over the cap already, and need to resign Kane and Toews? Probably would love to trade Bickell to someone to make room. Problem is, nobody wants his contract for the next 3 years at 4 million for a 15 point scoring winger.

it is this sort of situation that Buffalo can bank first round picks on. Since the first rounder is lower because the Blackhawks are good, 27th overall, they could probably tell Chicago they will get Minny's 2nd rounder, 49th overall, instead of Buffalo's 31th overall or no deal.

This

[MadDevil]

So they would basically be doing what Lou did with Malakhov years ago, sending him and a first round pick to the Sharks for Koryluk and I think a later pick (my memory of the exact trade is a bit hazy).

[J0e Th0rnton]

So they would basically be doing what Lou did with Malakhov years ago, sending him and a first round pick to the Sharks for Koryluk and I think a later pick (my memory of the exact trade is a bit hazy).

Pretty much yeah. 

[Vanflyer]

.Besides, doesn't he have a NTC/NMC in his contract that has got to have kicked in by now meaning he can tell them

 

Richards NTC / NMC was voided in his current contract when he was traded by the Flyers (same with Carter).