ZeZel25 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 once a writer types "trading Braden Coburn" I usually stop reading... He is not a franchise defenseman, but he is this team's best defensman, I don't see where trading him for a guy that maybe is ready to play NHL hockey right away makes this team better, especially when the noise the front office has been making is they feel the team is close to being really good. Plus I really don't see the Flyers as a team that is in full on rebuild mode where they're interested in blowing up the core group to put together a package to secure the pick, I really really don't see where Voracek is in that conversation at all. I move Coburn in a package for a guy that's done it in the NHL not potential. Someone wants to ship him to Phx in a package for OEL... i'm listening. I never knew we had a Braden Coburn. I better slow down on the booze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) Yeah, way to go out on a limb there mc. Master of the Obvious Edited June 26, 2014 by murraycraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 @ great insight there.thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeZel25 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 @ great insight there.thanks.Can say the same! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Can say the same!Help me out here, I take the time to read an article you post, but disagree with the writer, then give some reasons why and your take away is I misspelled his name. really ? so you are new to the internet then ?come back with a point next time .K ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesesteak Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 FWIW...I was watching a segment on CSN and they were showing Snider with a bunch of prospects. There was a group gathered around Snider and I picked one out, not knowing who he was, and immediately thought "That's the guy they draft". That kid I picked out ended up being Ekblad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 the same way nashville got their #1 weber type dman. luck. seriously. that's it. luck. it isn't drafting high, weber was taken 49th overall. it isn't scouting, nashville took konstantin glazachev and kevin klein before they finally took weber. it's luck. the flyers haven't had it, recently (although, it looks like giroux was the best or second best pick of the 2006 class, taken at #22). that doesn't mean they should spend big on something proven to not work most of the time. I think the more I think about this, the more and more I tend to agree that this is pure LUCK. The same luck that helped Detroit land Datsuyk and Zetterberg. I refuse to accept that the rest of the NHL was so blind and stupid not to take these players much higher. There was a reason some of the guys slip so low in the draft - nobody thought highly of them when they were playing in the minors (or in Europe in the case of Detroit). We can praise GMs and their scouts and call them brilliant, but the reality is, they simply got lucky. There is really no other way to explain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) I refuse to accept that the rest of the NHL was so blind and stupid not to take these players much higher. exactly. to emphasize my point, though, detroit themselves left them both on the table for 6+ rounds. if they had the slightest idea what those two were going to become or even could become, there's no way they let them sit that long and risk someone grabbing them, either by similar scouting or pure chance. they let them sit because they figured the two were round 6+ material. and got really lucky that wasn't the case. but yeah, that's what it is. lucky choices. giving the players the right opportunities and development and all that, but it begins with lucky choices. Edited June 27, 2014 by aziz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I think the more I think about this, the more and more I tend to agree that this is pure LUCK. The same luck that helped Detroit land Datsuyk and Zetterberg. I refuse to accept that the rest of the NHL was so blind and stupid not to take these players much higher. There was a reason some of the guys slip so low in the draft - nobody thought highly of them when they were playing in the minors (or in Europe in the case of Detroit). We can praise GMs and their scouts and call them brilliant, but the reality is, they simply got lucky. There is really no other way to explain it. There is absolutely luck involved (a lot more in the 6th or 7th round versus the 2nd round), but it's also about your drafting strategy. The fact that Nashville keeps picking NHL-worthy defensemen in later rounds over and over starts to remove the 'luck' factor. They seem to know what to look for. In a great Flyers example, they selected Kevin Marshall a few picks before PK Subban. There was no way at the time to know exactly how each would turn out - but if you consider their style of play, it's no surprise that the Flyers picked Marshall. That's the kind of player they pick - big, crease clearing guy, who had some ok offensive skills in junior, but not exactly a mobile defenseman, and not very dynamic. Subban, on the other hand, was fast, dynamic, and had a high octane offensive game. He was raw, sure, and he obviously flew below many teams' radars to be drafted at #43. But the point is the Flyers might have more luck finding gems if they drafted different kinds of players. Morin, Hagg, and Ghost (not drafted) are a strong step in a different direction. I mean, Morin might be more of the old strategy, but overall, it sounds like they're changing their approach to the types of guys they want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Subban didn't play defense. That's why the Flyers passed imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 FWIW...I was watching a segment on CSN and they were showing Snider with a bunch of prospects. There was a group gathered around Snider and I picked one out, not knowing who he was, and immediately thought "That's the guy they draft". That kid I picked out ended up being Ekblad. Oooookay then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Subban didn't play defense. That's why the Flyers passed imo. I didn't watch him in juniors. He has his defensive shortcomings, but he's no Mike Green or Letang. You can see his progress year over year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 @brelic He was very Green/Letang - like in junior. He was always doing spin-o-ramas with the puck which either resulted in a highlight reel play or a breakaway going the other way. You could tell he had NHL talent, but could he get his head around making safer plays? It's been a slow process but he's already passed Green and Letang in that dimension. If he can continue on that curve he'll actually win a Norris he deserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesesteak Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 Oooookay then....Yes, I know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I didn't watch him in juniors. He has his defensive shortcomings, but he's no Mike Green or Letang. You can see his progress year over year. Exactly. Now subtract those years back to the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 @brelic He was very Green/Letang - like in junior. He was always doing spin-o-ramas with the puck which either resulted in a highlight reel play or a breakaway going the other way. You could tell he had NHL talent, but could he get his head around making safer plays? It's been a slow process but he's already passed Green and Letang in that dimension. If he can continue on that curve he'll actually win a Norris he deserves. I guess it comes down to philosophy. Marshall was a 'safer' pick than Subban . But Subban showed the raw skills that Marshall just didn't have and would never develop. I'd take a chance on the guy with more raw skills in the 2nd round and beyond. Strong skaters and strong puck handlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 @ i miss read your post, sorry for the "tone". Still, I don't quite understand what you are saying though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 @brelic Looking back on Subban (among many others) you wonder how the heck they made it out of the first round. But watching him play for Belleville there were many question marks about what kind of NHLer he would be. One of my best friends is a huge Habs fan. He was happy they took him but we had plenty of discussions at games watching him electrify the building one minute, then make the biggest boneheaded play the next. But the skill was always there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Yes, I know Did you think he was hot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesesteak Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 Did you think he was hot? That's it, you got it :wub: I think is was because he towered over Snider or maybe the highlights in his hair ^_^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Subban's WJC was enough to convince me. He lifted fans right out of their seats with amazing end to end rushes. You could tell right from that moment he was faster than 95% of the current NHL players. His shot has always been straight up WICKED. He puts it in the right spot and you don't stop it. I take that over Marshall, a guy who slipped out of the first round due to below average foot speed. I don't know about you guys, but I see d-man low mobility land I run for the hills....I take the guy who *literally* lifted fans out of their seats.....a legit no-brainier if there ever was one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xganarchy Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Ok...who would do Vinny- Laughton-Haag-1st for Florida's 1st?? Is that way too little? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 @xganarchy Vinny is almost negative value with his contract. So ya, I might do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xganarchy Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Lol I hesitated to include him but supposedly the Panthers want a player to step in and he'd be a vet to help groom the young guys as well as add some cap hit to help them reach the floor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I don't know about you guys, but I see d-man low mobility land I run for the hills....I take the guy who *literally* lifted fans out of their seats.....a legit no-brainier if there ever was one. well, similarly, i see a hot dog defenseman who is willing, no, excited to abandon defensive responsibility to make flashy end to end rushes, challenging forecheckers one on one as the last man back, spinaramas at center ice, dangling in situations where if he loses the puck it'll be a breakaway against, and i run for the hills. pure flash is bad enough in a forward, in a defenseman it is death. subban has come a long way in adding depth to his game since then (though there is still a way to go before he can actually be called defensively reliable), but at that point, no way would i want my team to draft a dman like that. also, i doubt subban literally lifted the fans out of their seats. it would take more hands than he had at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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