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CBJ trades Umberger for Hartnell


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I guess he can always consider himself lucky he isn't a poor Pittsbugh kid stuck in Pittsburgh.

He's here all summer... Poor guy has to be thinking of suicide now having to leave for Philly! I'm calling the hotline to get him help as I type! ;)

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Or it blows up in ours faces, Schenn busts and Hartnell wins the Conn Smythe in Columbus.  :huh:

We obviosuly know this will be the result!!!!  How many more times must it happen before we know it to be the definite result???? :P

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Can't say I'm too thrilled with this. I guess the contract issue is a factor but I really don't see what RJ brings to the team. He's not a top line LW in my opinion, I have a hard time seeing him being effective with Giroux. Hopefully Hextall has more up his sleeve.

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I figure Hextall wants to see what he has in him.

 

Last 4 year penalty minutes: Hartnell - 451 PIMs.........RJ - 107 PIMs....yes that isn't a typo!!!!!

 

HOLY SMOKES THAT IS LOPSIDED AS HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Can't say I'm too thrilled with this.

 

I found someone else post that explains what i wanted to say so it saved me some time.

 

First some facts, over the last 2 seasons Hartnell's aggregate stats are:
GP: 110 out of 130
G: 28, 13 on the pp, only 15 at ES
A: 35, 12 on the pp, 23 at ES
PTS: 63, 25 on the pp, 38 at ES

These numbers over 82 games average out to:
21 goals, 27 assists, 48 points.

For a guy who mainly plays with Giroux and Jake and sees heavy duty pp time, those are mediocre numbers.

Is Hartnell a better offensive player than Umberger? Yes
Is Umberger better defensively and more versatile? Yes


Now, if Hartnell only had 2 or 3 years on his deal left, I would hate this trade; but, since he has 5 years left, I can live with it. I certainly don't love it, but I can live with it.

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Aside from their money, I wouldn't have minded having both of them on the roster. They both do different things, but neither is an upgrade over the other overall.  If they added Umberger to this mix, it would have been nice depth, but now that he's replacing Hartnell, it's a wash imo.

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I guess the contract issue is a factor but I really don't see what RJ brings to the team.

 

Like i posted earlier over the last 4 years: Hartnell 451 penalty minutes.

 

RJ over the last 4 years 107 penalty minutes....that is HUGE!

 

And what Berube has been preaching to them since he took over.

 

Not to mention he'll improve the puck possession time by just staying upright longer!

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I found someone else post that explains what i wanted to say so it saved me some time.

 

First some facts, over the last 2 seasons Hartnell's aggregate stats are:

GP: 110 out of 130

G: 28, 13 on the pp, only 15 at ES

A: 35, 12 on the pp, 23 at ES

PTS: 63, 25 on the pp, 38 at ES

These numbers over 82 games average out to:

21 goals, 27 assists, 48 points.

For a guy who mainly plays with Giroux and Jake and sees heavy duty pp time, those are mediocre numbers.

Is Hartnell a better offensive player than Umberger? Yes

Is Umberger better defensively and more versatile? Yes

Now, if Hartnell only had 2 or 3 years on his deal left, I would hate this trade; but, since he has 5 years left, I can live with it. I certainly don't love it, but I can live with it.

 

I like Hartnell a lot, but trades happen. That said, I find it hard to believe that you couldn't get something better than RJ and a 4th for him.

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Not to mention he'll improve the puck possession time by just staying upright longer!

 

Corsi doesn't bear that out. Hartnell had the 3rd best Corsi on the Flyers at 251. Umberger was middle of the pack on Columbus with a 162.

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Hartnell had the 3rd best Corsi on the Flyers at 251

 

Well had G  Jake and usually Kimmo and Coburn to help with those numbers....so that is part of the equation that has to be weight to.

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He's here all summer... Poor guy has to be thinking of suicide now having to leave for Philly! I'm calling the hotline to get him help as I type! ;)

Hey that's enough out of you, if I wanted sh!t from Pittsburgh I'd squeeze your new GM's head!

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Interesting move this one.....

 

Almost seems like the teams swapped a very similar player for one another....similar, but NOT the same.....with each player bringing to the other team a bit of what they feel they need.

 

Both RJ and Scott are physical players (Hartnell more the fighter, Umberger the better checker), both about the same size, age (30,32), they score about the same clip (both seem to average out about 20 G/Yr, give or take), and both are even sporting about the same salary cap hit to the team.

 

So where are the differences?

 

From what I can see, the Flyers get rid of a longer contract in Hartnell, and in Umberger, gain a much more responsible defensive player who can still score some goals.

Also, Umbergers discipline on the ice is much greater than Hartnell's.

 

The Jackets, on the other hand, get a player in Hartnell, who, probably has a bit better offensive instincts and can park himself in front of the net with the best of them (when he ISN'T falling down that is...  :P  ), and definitely brings a swagger and air of toughness that is greater than Umbergers...taking nothing away from RJ's tough play on the ice...they just go about things differently.

If there was ever a poster boy for "Garbage Goal" at a critical time, I'd say Hartnell is a great candidate, and I am betting the Jackets are hoping he brings much of that to the team.

 

Healthwise, I'd say the edge goes to the Flyers here as Hartnell has been a bit injury prone over the last few seasons, while Umberger has been quite durable, playing just about all the available games for his former Jackets the last few seasons.

 

Obviously, WAY too early to call a winner or a loser here, but I will give a slight edge at the moment to the Flyers simply because they shed a longer contract, get a guy who can help out defensively without sacrificing his ability to score his share of goals (probably on a bottom six role, for a 'best fit'), and get a guy who more than likely won't need time on IR, as compared to Hartnell.

 

That said, this trade IS one where division rivals made a deal...and well, we all know how that is.

Hartnell is a very proud player, and you can bet he will be extra ready to play his former Flyers whenever they show up on the schedule for the Jackets.

Not that hockey players should need much more motivation than trying to play for a Cup, but if anything can motivate Mr. Hartnell to up his play (and fall down less...haha), it may just very well be seeing his former orange n black on the schedule and a desire to show them that HE was the better guy in the trade.

 

In the grand scheme of things, this particular trade is not really earth shattering and I suspect more moves, especially from the Flyers have to be coming.

However, as I stated, very interesting, and the trade still can impact the overall fortunes of the teams as each guy tends to do the 'dirty work' and thankless jobs that not many will pay attention to, but nonetheless would be critical to their respective teams' successes.

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Can't say I'm too thrilled with this. I guess the contract issue is a factor but I really don't see what RJ brings to the team. He's not a top line LW in my opinion, I have a hard time seeing him being effective with Giroux. Hopefully Hextall has more up his sleeve.

 

i don't imagine he is being seen as a 1st line LW.  I would think 3rd.  umberger - couturier - read.  that's a pretty solid defensive unit.  plus, RJ kills penalties, opening up options on that front.

 

i like this deal.  while hartnell brought a certain toughness, it's not like he was milan lucic out there.  he exploded for a bunch of goals during the jagr season, but has shown nothing like that since.  he couldn't hold onto the 1st line wing spot, even, and ultimately created an almost VLC-level of line building complication.  an immobile offense only player who is willing to get dirty, but doesn't have particularly great hands...that is only so valuable.  definitely not equal to his cap hit.  

 

the flyers get easier to play against...maybe.  again, for all his toughness, it isn't like hartnell changed the dynamic of games through brute force.  

 

i call this one a win.  

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i don't imagine he is being seen as a 1st line LW.  I would think 3rd.  umberger - couturier - read.  that's a pretty solid defensive unit.  plus, RJ kills penalties, opening up options on that front.

 

So who plays LW on the top line? After defense, LW is the Flyers biggest weakness and they just traded their best one (not that that's saying much) for an extremely mediocre player.

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as posted by Gaz in the shoutbox a few minutes ago......

 

 

DaGreatGazoo : (01:48 PM) Well,THIS is interesting: James Mirtle ‏@mirtle 1m Talk going around is Scott Hartnell requested Flyers trade him. Has no-movement clause.

 

makes you wanna go hmmmmm????

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Well, I am late to this party b/c I am not sure what to think here.   We rid ourselves of a bad contract and shortened the bad contract in Umberger by two years but does this make us better?   In my opinion it makes us worse offensively but maybe a little better defensively.  If the plan is to put Schenn on the wing w/ G and Jake he just got some bargaining power for his next deal.   We are now an easier Team to play against for sure so I am not sure what to think here...

 

Hartnell was grossly overpaid but a great Team guy that played tough.   This is an odd one to me... maybe they are making another deal, banking on Schenn as the LWer, planning on Laughton, etc...   A  bit of a head scratcher to me.

 

Kimmo must be a bit sad too

 

Bill M pretty much sums up my point of view:

 

 

The Flyers have traded Scott Hartnell to the Columbus Blue Jackets, re-acquiring R.J. Umberger and also obtaining a fourth-round pick in the 2015 NHL Draft.

This trade perplexes me, unless it is the first of multiple moves.

Umberger's cap hit ($4.6 million) is not that much lower than Hartnell's ($4.75 million) and his contract runs through 2016-17, so this trade cannot be characterized as one that has significant cap-related advantages. Hartnell and Umberger are both 32 years old.

If the draft pick had been a higher one, I would have understood it. If Philly had gotten an extra second-round pick or some such, the deal could be explained as Ron Hextall starting to collect assets. The pick the Flyers got is a negligible asset in exchange for someone who has been a first-line left winger on the club.

Guess we will see what Hextall does in the days and weeks to come. As an opening salvo viewed on its own merits, it's a head-scratcher of a trade.

 

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So who plays LW on the top line? After defense, LW is the Flyers biggest weakness and they just traded their best one (not that that's saying much) for an extremely mediocre player.

 

simmonds or schenn, i would think, unless someone else is brought in.

 

the current options aside, though, hartnell was a bad fit on that line...but it was the only line he fit on at all.  he needed the elite linemates to be productive, so 2nd line was out.  is a mess defensively, so 3rd line was out.  is really expensive, so 4th is out.  1st line it is, but frankly, giroux and voracek deserve way better on the left side.  hartnell was a best fit that didn't fit.

 

to me, the flyers need to go out and find a LW.  i like the kane thing, but whatever, they need someone with both muscle AND talent on that line.  hartnell's inability to really fit anywhere other than the 1st line was a road block.  clearing that, the flyers have options.  and managed a solid two way player and a mid round pick out of it.

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i don't imagine he is being seen as a 1st line LW.  I would think 3rd.  umberger - couturier - read.  that's a pretty solid defensive unit.  plus, RJ kills penalties, opening up options on that front.

 

i like this deal.  while hartnell brought a certain toughness, it's not like he was milan lucic out there.  he exploded for a bunch of goals during the jagr season, but has shown nothing like that since.  he couldn't hold onto the 1st line wing spot, even, and ultimately created an almost VLC-level of line building complication.  an immobile offense only player who is willing to get dirty, but doesn't have particularly great hands...that is only so valuable.  definitely not equal to his cap hit.  

 

the flyers get easier to play against...maybe.  again, for all his toughness, it isn't like hartnell changed the dynamic of games through brute force.  

 

i call this one a win.  

 

 

Yes thank you for being the voice of reason. Hartnell scored 9 powerplays goal last year.

 

RJ scored 8 and he can play on the PK to.

 

And just going by last years stats alone couldn't the Flyers use 77 less minutes on the PK????? RJ- 26 PIMs Hartsy-103 PIMs.

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@sarsippius

 

Philly just got easier to play against. Columbus just got harder. 

 

But in the long run, it's a good move IMO.

 

Hartnell takes more penalties and Umberger plays on the PK, but you're rationale for this statement is what exactly? Is it anything other than your like of one player and dislike of the other?

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