Flyers Sign BSchenn to multi-year deal

[murraycraven]

I would like to see Schenn on the first pp honestly...

[King Knut]

Why?

Just curious.

I would like to see Schenn on the first pp honestly...

[doom88]

Why?

Just curious.

It is put up or shut up time. Give him a very extended look with every opportunity in top situations, and see if he sinks or swims. Guys need those minutes to develop.

[jammer2]

It is put up or shut up time. Give him a very extended look with every opportunity in top situations, and see if he sinks or swims. Guys need those minutes to develop.

 

 Totally agree, time to *really* see if this guy can cut the mustard. He has had long enough to acclimate himself to the league. This is a HUGE year for Braydon....if he is given first line minutes and does not respond with at *least* 30 goals....and I'm expecting meaningful game tying and winning goals on at least 25% of them....not just tack on garbage goals. I want to see if he can make a real difference....and the only real way to do that is put him in a position where he can succeed....so there are no excuses, or whining about linemates or playing time.

[brelic]

^^^

 

What @doom88 said.

 

Hartnell was kind of a mismatch on the top line for all the reasons posters mentioned in the Hartnell trade thread. 

 

So Hexy cleared the way either for Schenn or a FA signing. My immediate thought when I heard Hartnell was traded was for Simmonds to take his spot on the top line. He may get a look too.

[King Knut]

It's a good idea. The PP needs more creativity and he won't execute w/o time running it against the big boys.

I still don't know if I think the kid has it, but I sure hope he does.

It is put up or shut up time. Give him a very extended look with every opportunity in top situations, and see if he sinks or swims. Guys need those minutes to develop.

[murraycraven]

It is put up or shut up time. Give him a very extended look with every opportunity in top situations, and see if he sinks or swims. Guys need those minutes to develop.

Thank you doom... I got to dinner and came back to find you perfectly summed it up for me... Well done sir

[murraycraven]

^^^

What @doom88 said.

Hartnell was kind of a mismatch on the top line for all the reasons posters mentioned in the Hartnell trade thread.

So Hexy cleared the way either for Schenn or a FA signing. My immediate thought when I heard Hartnell was traded was for Simmonds to take his spot on the top line. He may get a look too.

Hey Brel... Guess our gut feeling was wrong...

[brelic]

Hey Brel... Guess our gut feeling was wrong...

 

I guess so! Though never underestimate the split personality of the Flyers front office

[aziz]

He isn't worth more than 1.5 at this point. I'm glad they didn't pay him more, but we're still paying for magic beans, not a beanstalk.

Something like $2.75mil is the league average salary, and 20 goals/41 points is a good bit above average production. Schenn on a small discount from that is a good deal. I like it. No hard feelings from it, and a fairly short "show me" clock.

On a small sample, I like how Hexy is running this team.

[murraycraven]

I guess so! Though never underestimate the split personality of the Flyers front office

Lol! Very true... We have the whole draft and offseason to go!

[jkearse123]

Schenn will still be a RFA at the end of this deal!

[King Knut]

The league average is inflated by guys like Phaneuf and Giroux who are overpaid themselves (but come on for a guy like G, we don't care, do we).

Coots took an undervalued deal but that set the tone for this team and he is incredibly more valuable to this team than Schenn.

The average player on the league is not worth 2.75.

Something like $2.75mil is the league average salary, and 20 goals/41 points is a good bit above average production. Schenn on a small discount from that is a good deal. I like it. No hard feelings from it, and a fairly short "show me" clock.

On a small sample, I like how Hexy is running this team.

[aziz]

The league average is inflated by guys like Phaneuf and Giroux who are overpaid themselves (but come on for a guy like G, we don't care, do we).

Coots took an undervalued deal but that set the tone for this team and he is incredibly more valuable to this team than Schenn.

The average player on the league is not worth 2.75.

 

the average is also deflated by ELCs and thugs on league minimum deals.  factor the 600 and some NHL players, including a few really high dollar deals, and a lot of really low ones, and you have a pretty solid median.

 

the average player in the league...give me some examples.  colton greening, say?  $2.65mil.  martin hanzal, maybe?  $3.1mil.  how about thomas kopecky, $3mil, even.  i'd take b schenn over any of them.

 

the average player in the league really does make a little more than $2.5mil.

[Irishjim]

 Totally agree, time to *really* see if this guy can cut the mustard. He has had long enough to acclimate himself to the league. This is a HUGE year for Braydon....if he is given first line minutes and does not respond with at *least* 30 goals....and I'm expecting meaningful game tying and winning goals on at least 25% of them....not just tack on garbage goals. I want to see if he can make a real difference....and the only real way to do that is put him in a position where he can succeed....so there are no excuses, or whining about linemates or playing time.

so what your saying no Jeff Carter false hope garbage goals..i'm down with that

[Irishjim]

The league average is inflated by guys like Phaneuf and Giroux who are overpaid themselves (but come on for a guy like G, we don't care, do we).

phlfly will never be your friend you had him there for a moment

[Vanflyer]

He isn't worth more than 1.5 at this point.

 

So newly obtained RJ Umberger with less production (20g / 16 assists) and 4.6M cap hit; and VLC with less production (20g / 17a / -16) 4.5m are worth it???

 

Hard for me to follow any logic that says a 20g / 21a guys that plays 16min a night is only worth 1.5m. Every year as a Flyer he has progressed (regardless what line people want to cite he was competing against). I guess in that vein, you'd say that Alex Kilhorn should make 1.5m as well. He signed (prior to Schenn) nearly the identical contract with nearly identical production, position and minutes played. That frankly set the bar right there and if you were to ask @TropicalFruitGirl26, I venture (if I recollect correctly) she was say that was a very fair signing. 

[Vanflyer]

The league average is inflated by guys like Phaneuf and Giroux who are overpaid themselves (but come on for a guy like G, we don't care, do we).

 

This is a complete oxymoron to the salary cap world and cost containment. 

 

1) In 1998 / 1999- Eric Lindros was making 8m a year. 

 

2) From 1998 / 2003- Dominic Hasek averaged 8m a year. 

 

3) 1997- Joe Sakic made 17M. 

 

4) 1999/2004- Peter Forsberg made 9.4m per year. 

 

My point being that you stating that the cap average is inflated by high salary players is bunk to me. The highest paid players in the NHL are making what the highest players in the NHL were makin 16 to 17 years ago. 

 

The other point I will make is that generally 2/3 of the league spend up to or near the cap. So regardless of who is getting what, that cap is split across 23 guys. With the cap this upcoming year, the average salary for a player that goes to the cap will be 3.08m. So, in that vein, Schenn is actually being paid less than the average NHLer. 

Edited June 24, 2014 by Vanflyer

[King Knut]

All those guys were making so much back Then and the highest paid guys aren't making anymore now for the same reason: The cap.

In essence the whole point of the cap was to lower the highest salaries and most of the others along the way (though I believe the ETC minimums are higher now). If there was no cap now Schenn would probably be making 4 million at least.

So while I see your point, and I'm happy Schenn's salary isn't higher, I still think the fact that he's making more than Couturier is pretty crappy and I would have much preferred he take the same mind set going into negotiations as Coots and his agent took.

Schenn needs to do some work. Giroux knew that with his first post ELC and Coots certainly seemed to see that with his this year.

Half of my trepidation comes from my inference that Schenn doesn't quite get that yet. It's a humble deal, but somewhere inside he still thinks he deserves more than other guys... And as of yet that's not the case. I hope in two years he has a ring and a billion points and can make all sorts of ridiculous demands.

But yes, in the mean time I see your point though and yes, In essence we have them both for less than the price if a Hartnell/Coburn, and that's good... For now.

This is a complete oxymoron to the salary cap world and cost containment.

1) In 1998 / 1999- Eric Lindros was making 8m a year.

2) From 1998 / 2003- Dominic Hasek averaged 8m a year.

3) 1997- Joe Sakic made 17M.

4) 1999/2004- Peter Forsberg made 9.4m per year.

My point being that you stating that the cap average is inflated by high salary players is bunk to me. The highest paid players in the NHL are making what the highest players in the NHL were makin 16 to 17 years ago.

The other point I will make is that generally 2/3 of the league spend up to or near the cap. So regardless of who is getting what, that cap is split across 23 guys. With the cap this upcoming year, the average salary for a player that goes to the cap will be 3.08m. So, in that vein, Schenn is actually being paid less than the average NHLer.

[radoran]

I haven't heard BSchenn whining or making any excuses...

He'll get a good look with a lot of responsibility and this deal is his big chance to show what he's got.

That said, I'm not trading him for a middling defenseman if he doesn't hit 30 next season :-)

[King Knut]

Aren't ELC minimums for first rounders are almost a million? Didn't they used to be less?

To pay an utterly unproven player, half if which won't work out in the end almost million bucks in a cap era is a bit off to me anyway.

My point isn't that Schenn is better than other guys who make more.

My point is that things are still adjusting and those guys who are worse than him but make more money are the outliers in need if adjustment.

now Schenn is one of those guys who now makes more than better players on his own team. What kind if a motivator is that for anyone?

The spread is tightening, but still, I don't have to like it. I can like that it's not any worse, but I don't have to like it on its own merits.

Honestly, I'll shut up about it if It comes out that a million of it is realistic incentives. 30 goals. 70 points. 18 -20 minutes per game. Stuff like that.

I've been in favor of honest and realistic incentives for nearly 20 years now. Too bad so many parts of the game can't be easily quantified.

the average is also deflated by ELCs and thugs on league minimum deals. factor the 600 and some NHL players, including a few really high dollar deals, and a lot of really low ones, and you have a pretty solid median.

the average player in the league...give me some examples. colton greening, say? $2.65mil. martin hanzal, maybe? $3.1mil. how about thomas kopecky, $3mil, even. i'd take b schenn over any of them.

the average player in the league really does make a little more than $2.5mil.

[King Knut]

Well first of all, I didn't say anything about RJ's salary making sense for us.

Second, RJ can play defensively, he plays both the PP and the PK And he's got a ton of experience, so right there even though his salary is absurd for what he brings (RJ should have ceilinged at 3.5-4 million two years ago and should probably be making now what Shenn does) he's got a few assets Schenner is still developing.

And don't even get me started on VLC. That deal is... I mean when Homer gave Bryz that ridiculous deal at least we had a need for a goalie. This wasn't as ridiculous a deal but a center was the last thing this team needed.

My point isn't that those deals make sense. So yes, you're right. This deal could be worse.

My point is mostly that I don't think paying the kid like he's better than He is or better than Coots is necessarily good management at this point.

At least VLC can say, hey... I'm VLC and I won a cup and scored a ton of points in my life.

Umberger can say a great many far less impressive things but still, things Schenn can't.

And honestly, there are plenty of situations that at this point in Schenn's development, I probably would want Umberger on the ice before him.

Luckily we have other guys I'd want out there before either of them.

Schenn may put the pieces together this year and jig saw a complete player who adds a great deal to this team. That's be great. Then we can all laugh about how much of a deal we got on him for the next two years.

As it is Homer punished Ciots for resigning Easley and having a better year and Hexy rewarded Schenn for being a bit more of a whiny bitch and having a worse one.

That's not really so cool.

So newly obtained RJ Umberger with less production (20g / 16 assists) and 4.6M cap hit; and VLC with less production (20g / 17a / -16) 4.5m are worth it???

Hard for me to follow any logic that says a 20g / 21a guys that plays 16min a night is only worth 1.5m. Every year as a Flyer he has progressed (regardless what line people want to cite he was competing against). I guess in that vein, you'd say that Alex Kilhorn should make 1.5m as well. He signed (prior to Schenn) nearly the identical contract with nearly identical production, position and minutes played. That frankly set the bar right there and if you were to ask @TropicalFruitGirl26, I venture (if I recollect correctly) she was say that was a very fair signing.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

So newly obtained RJ Umberger with less production (20g / 16 assists) and 4.6M cap hit; and VLC with less production (20g / 17a / -16) 4.5m are worth it???

 

Hard for me to follow any logic that says a 20g / 21a guys that plays 16min a night is only worth 1.5m. Every year as a Flyer he has progressed (regardless what line people want to cite he was competing against). I guess in that vein, you'd say that Alex Kilhorn should make 1.5m as well. He signed (prior to Schenn) nearly the identical contract with nearly identical production, position and minutes played. That frankly set the bar right there and if you were to ask @TropicalFruitGirl26, I venture (if I recollect correctly) she was say that was a very fair signing. 

 

Yea, the signings are comparable, as are the players: Similar sizes, skillsets, production numbers to this point in their careers.

 

In fact, while I am very happy with the Killorn signing, I would even dare say that Schenn, over the long haul may have a slightly higher offensive upside, being 2 years younger than Killorn, perhaps a bit faster skater, and, despite being younger, actually has MORE NHL games under his belt.

 

A 2.5 mil average cap hit for the next two years for B. Schenn is quite tolerable and fair, IMO.

And after that, Schenn will STILL be an RFA (according to capgeek), and the Flyers then can see how Schenn has either progressed, regressed, or stayed the same, and act accordingly, contract-wise, at that point.

[aziz]

@King Knut

Bonuses are not allowed on contracts other than ELC's and 35+ deals. Schenn' deal is all salary.

If you look around the league, $2.5mil is on the low side for a 20 goal, 40 point player. Yes, there are exceptions, but on average. All I'm saying.

[flyercanuck]

 Totally agree, time to *really* see if this guy can cut the mustard. He has had long enough to acclimate himself to the league. This is a HUGE year for Braydon....if he is given first line minutes and does not respond with at *least* 30 goals....and I'm expecting meaningful game tying and winning goals on at least 25% of them....not just tack on garbage goals. I want to see if he can make a real difference....and the only real way to do that is put him in a position where he can succeed....so there are no excuses, or whining about linemates or playing time.

 

Agree, other than the 30 goals part. I'll take 25 from him and be happy. There were 20 - 30 goal scorers in the entire league last year. 6 of them hit exactly 30. Nobody on the Flyers top line hit 30 last year. I can't expect Schenn to.

 

 But I certainly hope he can elevate his game. He looked pretty frustrated at times, and disinterested at others. That's certainly not what made him a high pick in his draft.