brelic Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 While I agree for the most part jammer A Mac to me was a huge mistake. He can be moved but that contact was ridiculous...The fact of the matter is AMac corsi stats and every other stat prove he is worse than Ehrhoff... Andrew is not good in his own end and we are paying a boatload to him. He is not a top 3 dman - period.Agreed. Yet he's our TOI leader. Getting Ehrhoff would be a Homer move because they cannot accept growing pains. Slotting a young guy in there will be uglier in the short run but the right move in the long run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 @murraycraven I didn't see a lot of the defensive gaffes that other posters did regarding McDaddy. He has real nice mobility, which is the starting point I always want....everything else can be worked on, but that initial foot speed is a must, and Andrew has that.I think we all agree that MacD is an ok defenseman. A 2nd/3rd pairing guy. But he's being used like a #1 and he simply does not have the skill to do so. It all depends on how Berube intends to use him next season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 @murraycraven I didn't see a lot of the defensive gaffes that other posters did regarding McDaddy. He has real nice mobility, which is the starting point I always want....everything else can be worked on, but that initial foot speed is a must, and Andrew has that.Agreed jammer. Gross was the worst by far IMO. I remember AMac coming in and posters liking his composure in his own end. I still blame the forwards' piss-poor neutral zone play for making the defense look way worse than they are. Especially with outlet passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 AMac actually made Schenn a better defenseman, and if those two have chemistry, who's to say they don't play better than the sum of their parts? The Flyers seriously need some organizational consistency if they ever want that elusive chemistry. Exactly, how do you even the rate the value of Andrew making an entire defensive pairing competent? The change in Luke's play was immediate when paired with McDonald. I'm fine with those two playing together forever if that what it takes to make Luke more responsible. Not a coincidence that the whole team defense picked up with the arrival of Andrew, and was a big part of the winning streak that cemented a playoff spot for the Flyers. All of a sudden 1/3rd of the defense could be counted on where it was a previous question mark....that is HUGE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I didn't see a lot of the defensive gaffes that other posters did regarding McDaddy. My biggest thing with him is he is always conceding the blueline/real estate in the Dzone when someone comes in with the pick see the Megna hit it was he who got knocked into Mason and had he stood his ground sooner who knows maybe it doesn't happen. So i'd like to see him challenge a little more than just always back peddling and then only challenging when he has no other choice because he is on top of the crease. And i hope/pray that can be done with coaching. Gord i hope can work on that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 A good memory..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFnM_LpqyNE ....i still think if they had him they could have won that series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 @OccamsRazor I believe all that stuff can be worked on in training camp. It's a bit tough to make tweaks like that in mid-stream, when the Flyers are in the middle of a life or death playoff push. I believe he's smart enough to work on the things the Flyers want him to change.....so do the Flyers, or they would have never signed long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I believe all that stuff can be worked on in training camp. It's a bit tough to make tweaks like that in mid-stream, when the Flyers are in the middle of a life or death playoff push. I hope so but honestly other than that i really like his game especially remember what he is a stay at home type and he isn't the biggest guy...the one thing about his game i didn't expect kid to me is probably the best passer out of the whole blueline, very very under rated very crisp and tape to tape really stood out to me more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 @OccamsRazor I believe all that stuff can be worked on in training camp. It's a bit tough to make tweaks like that in mid-stream, when the Flyers are in the middle of a life or death playoff push. I believe he's smart enough to work on the things the Flyers want him to change.....so do the Flyers, or they would have never signed long term. Vincent Lecavalier says bonjour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Instead of signing a older high priced vet, can't we swing a deal for a young dman,with B. Schenn and someone else as the primary bait, depending who were trading for?Fla -GubransonEdm -Nurse, KleifbomWin-Morrisey , BogosianBuffalo- Ristolanen , MyersMinn- DumbaPhx - Gormely, MurphyThere have been lots of good defenseman drafted by other teams over the last 3-4 years that's what we need to target, are any of these guys worth targeting? Or any others?Chicago is looking for a second line center what about B Schenn for Nick Leddy? We need a potential #2 dman ,who is NHL ready now...or in the NHL ...not 3-4 years from now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 @RonJeremy I wonder if LA would take B.Schenn for Alex Martinez, I thought they were shopping him last season. He had a GREAT playoff. The first player ever to score series winning goals in OT in consecutive series...he plays his best when it matters most, that's the type of d-man to go after. He may be a decent price right now, cause he even though he might eventually project to be a 2nd D-man, he's not that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Not sure ,isn't LA set at center? There has to be a good young dman with the skills we are looking for somewhere. A lot of our fans act like B Schenn is worthless ,he is a potential 30 goal guy, a solid second line center. So I believe he is worth a potential second pair defenseman. It's up to our scouts and coaches to find the right young dman to target and up to Hexy to make the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 @RonJeremy LA buying out Richards would leave an opening.....plus, Schenn may be able to outplay Stoll and push him down a line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I guess we will see what happens, but no matter what we need a young # 2 dman somehow. Our good crop of young dmen are still a year or two away from making the team and then another few years from being a factor. Other posters insist on giving Laurdesson,Alt and other AHL guys a shot, but those guys are third pair guys. We need a dman with comparable skill and potential that B Schenn has as a center, so that we can make a fair trade for defense.I think Nick Leddy for Chicago is the same age , and is a former first rounder, he looks like a solid dman. What are your thoughts on him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I'll say even though it don't tell the whole picture that -27 is ugly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In all fairness, Buffalo scored 1.81 goals a game. They allowed 2.96. that is 1+ goal allowed a game. 82 games. Everyone on that team was a minus. In fairness, that squad was mostly and AHL team. Not saying Ehrnof did not have culpability (don't really know as I don't watch AHL games much), but I can see how a -27 could happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 @Vanflyer Erhoff is going to want a contract to send him off to the green pastures. Do you really want to do that yet again? If we could get him on a 3 year deal, fine. 5 or 6, no thanks. And someone will Holmgren him with longterm, big bucks , you just know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Exactly, how do you even the rate the value of Andrew making an entire defensive pairing competent? The change in Luke's play was immediate when paired with McDonald. I'm fine with those two playing together forever if that what it takes to make Luke more responsible. Not a coincidence that the whole team defense picked up with the arrival of Andrew, and was a big part of the winning streak that cemented a playoff spot for the Flyers. All of a sudden 1/3rd of the defense could be counted on where it was a previous question mark....that is HUGE. Most of us say Schenn was better once MacDonald arrived, based on the old eye test. I kinda thought the same too for the first few games. After that, I started focusing more on MacDonald, who was less than impressive. Not bad, mind you, but really just another mediocre presence on the blueline. Here's what advanced stats reveal about Schenn before and after MacD, and MacD before and after the trade. Schenn had the same number of offensive zone starts (54%) before and after MacDonald's arrival. The change is a lower corsi score (-1%); he faced the same level of competition when paired with MacDonald (-0.1%), and had a higher quality of teammate (+1.6%). MacDonald had fewer offensive zone starts with the Flyers (-5%), improved his corsi score to 48% (+5%), faced slightly better competition (+1%), while playing with weaker teammates (-1.7%). More importantly, in relation to the rest of the team, MacDonald was 6th among defensemen in terms of corsi score - ahead of only Luke Schenn, Hal Gill, and Grossmann. He's 5th among defensemen in the quality of competition he faces (Schenn is 7th, below Meszaros). Bottom line, Schenn and MacDonald are 3rd pairing defensemen on this team and they're being paid $8.5M to do it. Yet MacDonald is 2nd among all skaters in terms of TOI (and led all skaters in the playoffs). Schenn is 8th among defensemen in TOI per 60 minutes. Crazy, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 @brelic Getting MacDonald was one thing...that contract was likely yet another of Homers blunders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 @brelic Getting MacDonald was one thing...that contract was likely yet another of Homers blunders. Absolutely. I don't know how they could determine that after 19 games (maybe less, I can't remember), MacDonald was worth $30M over 6 years to this team. At least Hextall can move him, but I think his price point and contract length make him untradeable at the moment. I'd rather that Hextall not get Ehrhoff (or ANY defenseman) without first cleaning up the mess he inherited. Move out two guys (Schenn? / Grossmann?), bring back one, and play a youngin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Erhoff is going to want a contract to send him off to the green pastures. Do you really want to do that yet again? If we could get him on a 3 year deal Well, he just hit the lottery. As someone (Maybe @jammer2) pointed out, you will see everything you need to know about the player in his next contract. I would like to think he would want to win after playing on a wretched Buffalo squad and considering his recent windfall, give a considerable discount to a team he things he can accomplish that with. 3 years is more than plenty. Yet, the way people are talking, it does not sound like he is a solution for us anyway. I do like yandle, but that is not going to come without kissing some assets goodbye. I don't think it will be hefty though because he is a UFA after next season (2016-2017). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) @Vanflyer Erhoff is going to want a contract to send him off to the green pastures. Do you really want to do that yet again? If we could get him on a 3 year deal, fine. 5 or 6, no thanks. And someone will Holmgren him with longterm, big bucks , you just know it. I could be mistaken, but it looks to me (from capgeek) that Erhoff is making an average of $4 million a year until the '20-'21 season. Not bad (for him of course). IF he could be had for 3, maybe 4 years at 4 or less per year, I think that could be a steal. It looks to m like he's already GOT the contract to send him off to green pastures, maybe he could be had for a bargain? I wouldn't expect any of our D prospects to be making a major impact for 2-3 years so he could be a decent bridge between Timone/Streit and the new guys. Edited June 30, 2014 by JackStraw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 @JackStraw I agree with what you're saying. he's already making nice cake with the buyout, so maybe he sees whatever else he gets as icing. Or does he see it as he can get a whole other cake out of the deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 @JackStraw I agree with what you're saying. he's already making nice cake with the buyout, so maybe he sees whatever else he gets as icing. Or does he see it as he can get a whole other cake out of the deal? Well if he wants a whole other cake then let him go to LA. Stevens is presumably baking cakes for those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 @JackStraw Ya, but now they deserve them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I'd rather see DelZotto than Ehrhoff. Can't believe no one wanted to trade for him. Of course, right now, I'd just be happy with cap space. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.