Homer: Bad GM or Worst GM Ever? Discuss:

[pilldoc]

From Rux's post in the shoutbox......

 

Hope you don't mind @ruxpin.  this topic deserves a thread all its own.  especially after the way this day is turning out.

[sarsippius]

 

Nice first year he had. After that he fell victim to "we're only one player away syndrome". Pronger could have been a good signing even with the length of the contract, it was Homer's Waterloo instead....all downhill from there. Never met a NTC/NMC he didn't like, threw a 2nd pick into every deal just to be a nice guy. Hexy can't sign anyone ANYONE and will have to give away players with dumbass contracts just to be able resign his own upcoming RFAs in the coming years.

[pilldoc]

Someone please for the life of god explain to me why we signed VLC in the first place.  It was like jumping out of the fire (using the 2 get out of jail free cards and cutting the bad contracts of Bryz and Briere).... BUT... BUT ..then we jump right back into the fire with a absolutely horrendous contract in VLC. Good god...did not Homer learn the frist time........

[flyercanuck]

Far from the worst...I'm pretty sure Homer was responsible for selecting Giroux. For that alone he gets a pass. But man was he bad at contracts and salary cap management. 

[caluso]

Someone please for the life of god explain to me why we signed VLC in the first place.  It was like jumping out of the fire (using the 2 get out of jail free cards and cutting the bad contracts of Bryz and Briere).... BUT... BUT ..then we jump right back into the fire with a absolutely horrendous contract in VLC. Good god...did not Homer learn the frist time........

thats what i was screaming.

bottom line: GOMER HAD NO IDEA HOW TO OPERATE WITH A HARD CAP..

the VLC signing was insane. every dollar matters, so go out and sign an aging center when we are loaded at that position.

[OccamsRazor]

Far from the worst

 

Yeah that was last year and it is even running into this years..............

[AndyS]

There are countless other teams who miss the playoffs every year. We simply don't know what that is like, thankfully.

 

So, no - Homer is nowhere close to being the worst GM.

 

Is/was he a great GM? Of course not. But let's not act like he just did a crap job.

 

At least he tried to put a winning team on the ice.  That is a lot more than can be said for a lot of NHL Gm's, IMO.

 

Lord willing, Hextall will be much better.

[AndyS]

P.S. Stop trying to force high-priced centers to play wing! (Briere, VLC, etc.)

[AndyS]

P.S. Homer was a better GM than Clarke.

[ruxpin]

He's not the worst, but he's Jay Snider bad.

[radoran]

Worst GM ever? Mike Milbury did once run an NHL franchise, so there's your answer there...

 

No.

 

No good, very bad, terrible GM? 

 

Yeah, I'll go with that.

 

I was happier with him basically running the scouting than I have been with his stewardship of the entire franchise.

[JackStraw]

Homer was a good GM. Not great, but good. He made two BIG mistakes imo, the Bryzgalov contract and signing Lecavalier. On the plus side:

 

Turned the player who used to be Peter Forsberg into Timonen and Hartnell

Turned Zhitnik into Coburn

Signed Matt Read and Michael Raffl as undrafted free agents

Drafted Ghost, Morin, Hagg

The Richards and Carter trades were two of the best trades by any GM in recent years imo.

 

Yes, there have been other signings and trades that haven't been so good but overall I'd have to say the positive outweighed the negative by a good bit. He didn't win a Cup of course, which at the end of the day is all that really counts. But despite the cap issues we're seeing now he's left the team in pretty good shape for Hextall going forward.

[brelic]

Have you seen some of the signings out there? It's almost a good thing that Hexy is handcuffed.

 

It's the length that would be a problem, iMO. Moulson or Cammalleri for 5 years? No thanks. 

 

Stralman for 5 years? No thanks.

 

Vanek for $6.5M? No thanks.

 

And there's a bunch of mediocre players getting north of $4M for many years. Again, no thanks.

 

Get rid of Vinny, get rid of Grossmann. Re-sign Emery because we're out of options.

 

Call it a day.

[radoran]

The Richards and Carter trades were two of the best trades by any GM in recent years imo.

 

I agree they got a solid return for the Flyers, but one of the biggest positives about the trades was getting out from under the ridiculous contracts he gave them both in the first place. And the initial (apparent) miscalculation of attaching the future of the franchise to the Richards/Crater "leadership" in the first place.

 

In that context - and add in VLC, Hartnell, Briere and Bryzgalov - Homer's signing gaffes seem to heavily outweigh his triumphs (Simmonds, Voracek, Read).

 

Especially since the foundation of the post Crater/Richards transformation has all of one playoff round in the past two seasons.

 

And that they are still having to make moves (Hartnell for Umburglar for example and, hopefully VLC for a signed copy of Nancy Kerrigan's In My Own Words) to deal with the aftermath.

 

There are things that the jury is still out on, but putting the Holmgren years in the rear view mirror is among the best things that could have happened to the Flyers.

 

In Hexy We Trust.

 

For now.

[brelic]

Oh, and I wanted to add that the MacDonald deal was a terrible terrible signing. Bad in terms of salary, unbelievable in terms of length. He's not a core player and should never have been given that contract after 19 games in O&B.

 

That and Vinny's contract have contributed to us being handcuffed right now to the tune of $9M/year.

[RonJeremy]

Homer made some good moves,but the bad ones are way too many...

Trading Bob

Signing Bryz

First and third for Versteeg

First for Emminger

Upshall and second for Carcillo

Signing VLC

Signing MCD

Poor cap management

Not recognizing our defense was aging ,and waiting way too long to finally start drafting defense. Had he taken either Hamilton or the kid Pittsburgh got instead of drafting checking centers two years in a row, we would be in a better position right now.

[brelic]

Trading Bob
Signing Bryz
First and third for Versteeg
First for Emminger
Upshall and second for Carcillo
Signing VLC
Signing MCD

 

The crazy thing is that I'm sure most fans identified those moves as bad the moment they happened. 

[jammer2]

The crazy thing is that I'm sure most fans identified those moves as bad the moment they happened. 

 

 Yes, most of us saw the potential in Bob and predicted we would rue the day we gave up on him so early. If I could sum up Homer quick...the drafting was above average, the recognition of NHL talent was below average (he actually thought Emminger was worth a 1st?? WOW....John Carlson is still a SOLID d-man Homer!!) and the cap management was non-existent. Every shiny new toy he saw he wanted....and shame on Ed for going along with it!! Virtually NO RESPECT for the future in terms of the cap!!  Continually having to fix the problems that he himself created....

 

 5 out of 10.

[King Knut]

He never learned to stop taking such huge risks.

 

Pronger almost worked.  If he'd remembered to get an actual goalie in 2010 we'd be calling him the best in 35 years.

 

Bryz was before Pronger's injury right?  So taking the big swing again was supported by history at that point.

 

In the end, Homer's mistakes and the trend they represent actually makes me question the Richards and Carter Trades more than ever.

 

Not their validity, but the reasoning behind them.  I had always assumed he'd done it to make cap space for a goalie, but that just seems way too far sighted and rooted in the future for Homer to even have considered.

 

Now this team's finances are like a really late stage game of Jenga and Hexy's left trying to sort it all out.  Doesn't seem cool that Homer gets to stay in the organization at this point.  What value is he bringing?  His decision making has proved nothing but increasingly disastrous and erratic.  Can the guy just retire or something?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice first year he had. After that he fell victim to "we're only one player away syndrome". Pronger could have been a good signing even with the length of the contract, it was Homer's Waterloo instead....all downhill from there. Never met a NTC/NMC he didn't like, threw a 2nd pick into every deal just to be a nice guy. Hexy can't sign anyone ANYONE and will have to give away players with dumbass contracts just to be able resign his own upcoming RFAs in the coming years.

[B21]

Far from the worst...I'm pretty sure Homer was responsible for selecting Giroux. For that alone he gets a pass. But man was he bad at contracts and salary cap management. 

 

Trading a Vezina winner cancels out Giroux i/m/h/o.  Plus it's not like Giroux was some diamond in the rough who was expected to go in the 5th round and Homer geniously plucked him in the 1st.  He went right about where he was supposed to go. It's a good pick - but it's not Datsyuk in the 6th round either.

[King Knut]

I actually was never a huge fan of Bob's but even I saw his potential.

 

The real problem with that trade wasn't trading away Bobrovsky as I see it.  It was being forced to do it because you'd let the cap situation get so bad that you couldn't afford to keep him in the system for another year... and even worse was the fact that Homer got himself INTO that situation by letting Laviolette play Bob in the playoffs like a dummy when it would have been apparent to anyone watching that the goal tending situation was not losing (or saving) that series. 

 

IDIOTIC.

 

If Homer says, "No Lavs, you can't friggin play bob again this year damn it!" then we never have to trade him and can give him 40 games in the AHL or better yet, use him in tandem with a goalie not named Bryzgalov and let him develop.

 

In the end, I'm pleased with Mason and I do think getting unseated by Bob did wake Mason up and help him become the goalie he is (or rather is again) now.

 

Homer just screwed that pooch so royally it's pathetic.

 

 

Yes, most of us saw the potential in Bob and predicted we would rue the day we gave up on him so early. If I could sum up Homer quick...the drafting was above average, the recognition of NHL talent was below average (he actually thought Emminger was worth a 1st?? WOW....John Carlson is still a SOLID d-man Homer!!) and the cap management was non-existent. Every shiny new toy he saw he wanted....and shame on Ed for going along with it!! Virtually NO RESPECT for the future in terms of the cap!! Continually having to fix the problems that he himself created....



5 out of 10.

[peter puck]

Howson Milbury Snow were all worse and Snow man is still going

[jammer2]

Now this team's finances are like a really late stage game of Jenga and Hexy's left trying to sort it all out. Doesn't seem cool that Homer gets to stay in the organization at this point. What value is he bringing? His decision making has proved nothing but increasingly disastrous and erratic. Can the guy just retire or something?

 

 Well said. It's the Flyers "loyal to a fault" mantra at work once again. So, this tool is gonna oversee Hexy's trades??  What has he done to deserve that position....fire the bum. Let him mess up another franchise.

[King Knut]

One (albeit creative) solution to this mystery might be that Snider forced him to make a few of these deals and keeping a job of some sort was Snyder's attempt at a Mea Culpa.  

 

Honestly, at this point, what team in its right mind would hire Homer to be their GM?

 

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about him overseeing anything.  We know from experience with Lukko, the President doesn't seem to necessarily have much official oversight.  We'll see how it plays out with these two.

 

Some would suggest that Clarke is still the one running the show in the shadows of the front office, though I'll admit he looks way happier now than he ever did as GM. 

 

 

Well said. It's the Flyers "loyal to a fault" mantra at work once again. So, this tool is gonna oversee Hexy's trades?? What has he done to deserve that position....fire the bum. Let him mess up another franchise.

[Mad Dog]

I am sure not the worst.  But he was BAD.  Really bad. 

 

This is how I look at it.  Since he became a GM, has he assembled a team who was in a position to challenge for the Cup?  The answer has ot be no.  Both the Stevens' team and Laviollete's team got lucky several times and went far in the playoffs.  Pure luck and nothing else. 

 

The reality is, he was so bad that the consequences of his beyond stupid signings and beyond poor cap management will be felt long after he is gone.

 

Good riddance!