Time to offer sheet Krug?

[jammer2]

  This thread is assuming Hexy clears up some cap space with the movement of VLC and or Grossmann. First off, Krug just turned 23, went the NCAA route so he only has two years of pro under his belt. He's smallish at 5'9 and 180, but can skate like the wind, very nice mobility. He does a great job of shielding the puck with his body, so his size does not matter as much as it would with other smaller players.

 

  This move would accomplish a few things...it gives Philly an automatic replacement for Kimo at the point on the top pp. It supplies the Flyers with a WICKED point shot, great for tipping, Simmonds would have a literal field day tipping home Krug shots! It also puts a direct conference rival in a very bad spot. They have very limited cap space as we speak, and have Bartokowski, Caron, Riley Smith and Krug as RFA's right now. If you put in a offer sheet....you either force a trade out of them....essentially making them move a Marchand for a much lower price because their backs would be to the wall.....or maybe, just maybe you force them to walk away from Krug altogether. Either way, it weakens team that is considered one of the better Eastern teams...a team we have to inevitably leapfrog to get to the promised land.

 

 I say put in an offer of 3,999,999 ....a buck below the next threshold of 2 1sts and one 2nd and one 3rd. This offer requires a payment of a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. A big price to pay? Yes, of course, but he offense and youth you'd be getting back are top notch. The kid was a Calder finalist and put up 40 pts in his first full year. Lot's and lot's of upside here....I'd be very interested....and it makes the defense more mobile.

[Irishjim]

not with a deep draft next year..i want as many picks as possible..i'd pass..talk to me next year

[doom88]

No thanks. That could block other guys like ghost.

[J0e Th0rnton]

  This thread is assuming Hexy clears up some cap space with the movement of VLC and or Grossmann. First off, Krug just turned 23, went the NCAA route so he only has two years of pro under his belt. He's smallish at 5'9 and 180, but can skate like the wind, very nice mobility. He does a great job of shielding the puck with his body, so his size does not matter as much as it would with other smaller players.

 

  This move would accomplish a few things...it gives Philly an automatic replacement for Kimo at the point on the top pp. It supplies the Flyers with a WICKED point shot, great for tipping, Simmonds would have a literal field day tipping home Krug shots! It also puts a direct conference rival in a very bad spot. They have very limited cap space as we speak, and have Bartokowski, Caron, Riley Smith and Krug as RFA's right now. If you put in a offer sheet....you either force a trade out of them....essentially making them move a Marchand for a much lower price because their backs would be to the wall.....or maybe, just maybe you force them to walk away from Krug altogether. Either way, it weakens team that is considered one of the better Eastern teams...a team we have to inevitably leapfrog to get to the promised land.

 

 I say put in an offer of 3,999,999 ....a buck below the next threshold of 2 1sts and one 2nd and one 3rd. This offer requires a payment of a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. A big price to pay? Yes, of course, but he offense and youth you'd be getting back are top notch. The kid was a Calder finalist and put up 40 pts in his first full year. Lot's and lot's of upside here....I'd be very interested....and it makes the defense more mobile.

The threshold has gone way up since the 2006 Salary cap.

$3,364,392 to $5,046,585 = 1st and 3rd pick.

$5,046,586 to $6,728,781 = 1st, 2nd, 3rd

$6,728,782 to $8,410,976 = two 1sts, 2nd, 3rd

[murraycraven]

I am with Jim and doom this...

Edited July 3, 2014 by murraycraven

[J0e Th0rnton]

Ill just cut and paste the same conversation I am having in the Holland thread in the wings section.

 

Van, you have no idea how much I can't wait for the day teams start abusing the offer sheet button. I am stunned more division rivals are not doing it. STUNNED. If I am Doug Wilson, I would seriously consider offering RFA contracts to some of the LA kings up and comers like Toffoli just to put a dink in their arse.

 

Let's face it, unless you are paying more than 6.7 million dollars, the worst you can get penalized is a first, second and third.

 

Effectively, if you offer sheet a young superstar 6.7 million Dollars, and the other team cannot match, you have traded them a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for a 6.7 million dollar player. People give up more than that at the trade deadline for Rentals for christ sakes. And you are getting a young superstar.

 

Think about it Detroit fans. If Buffalo next season decides to offer sheet Nyquist 6.7 million over 7 years, or whatever. How pissed are you? Obviously you have to match, but you might not be fond of spending that much. Now imagine the same situation, but imagine the wings are near the cap and would have to dump someone to make room.

 

Krug will not get that kind of money, but I could see a team offering him between 3.3 million and 5 million(Compensation is a 1st and 3rd), which effectively makes it hard for Boston to match, while getting a rookie player who was dynamite on Boston's PP. Think about it. A 23 year old left side defenseman who just scored 40 points in his rookie year, effectively traded for a 1st and 3rd. Imagine if 2 GM's get on the phone and someone else Offer sheets Reilly Smith, who just scored 51 points and was +28 in his first full NHL season.

 

Boston either matches, or loses the players(Nobody wants to lose their youth). Matching will require them to dump salary. Which will require them to dump other good players.

[murraycraven]

The threshold has gone way up since the 2006 Salary cap.

$3,364,392 to $5,046,585 = 1st and 3rd pick.

$5,046,586 to $6,728,781 = 1st, 2nd, 3rd

$6,728,782 to $8,410,976 = two 1sts, 2nd, 3rd

Yep... That about ends this discussion. Topic over...

[jammer2]

@J0e Th0rnton  Wow, I thought my Google search was present day....thanks for the correction, that is WAY more. Would make it kinda impossible from a Flyers perspective. Just love this kids game though...betcha somebody with a lot of cap space will give this idea a whirl.

[jammer2]

Ill just cut and paste the same conversation I am having in the Holland thread in the wings section.

 

Van, you have no idea how much I can't wait for the day teams start abusing the offer sheet button. I am stunned more division rivals are not doing it. STUNNED. If I am Doug Wilson, I would seriously consider offering RFA contracts to some of the LA kings up and comers like Toffoli just to put a dink in their arse.

 

Let's face it, unless you are paying more than 6.7 million dollars, the worst you can get penalized is a first, second and third.

 

Effectively, if you offer sheet a young superstar 6.7 million Dollars, and the other team cannot match, you have traded them a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for a 6.7 million dollar player. People give up more than that at the trade deadline for Rentals for christ sakes. And you are getting a young superstar.

 

Think about it Detroit fans. If Buffalo next season decides to offer sheet Nyquist 6.7 million over 7 years, or whatever. How pissed are you? Obviously you have to match, but you might not be fond of spending that much. Now imagine the same situation, but imagine the wings are near the cap and would have to dump someone to make room.

 

Krug will not get that kind of money, but I could see a team offering him between 3.3 million and 5 million(Compensation is a 1st and 3rd), which effectively makes it hard for Boston to match, while getting a rookie player who was dynamite on Boston's PP. Think about it. A 23 year old left side defenseman who just scored 40 points in his rookie year, effectively traded for a 1st and 3rd. Imagine if 2 GM's get on the phone and someone else Offer sheets Reilly Smith, who just scored 51 points and was +28 in his first full NHL season.

 

Boston either matches, or loses the players(Nobody wants to lose their youth). Matching will require them to dump salary. Which will require them to dump other good players.

 

 I'm also STUNNED this move is not being employed more often....like you said, at the very least, you are making a division rival screw up their cap space. It's almost collusion like how this is not being done to swipe young rising stars....it makes no sense that teams are not trying this left and right.

[doom88]

I'm also STUNNED this move is not being employed more often....like you said, at the very least, you are making a division rival screw up their cap space. It's almost collusion like how this is not being done to swipe young rising stars....it makes no sense that teams are not trying this left and right.

Part of business is relationships. Offer sheets can burn bridges. Remember that EDM thing with Lowe a few years ago?

Also, the Flyers tried twice, Kesler and Weber. At least they were worth pursuing.

[Podein25]

This thread is assuming Hexy clears up some cap space with the movement of VLC and or Grossmann. First off, Krug just turned 23, went the NCAA route so he only has two years of pro under his belt. He's smallish at 5'9 and 180, but can skate like the wind, very nice mobility. He does a great job of shielding the puck with his body, so his size does not matter as much as it would with other smaller players.

This move would accomplish a few things...it gives Philly an automatic replacement for Kimo at the point on the top pp. It supplies the Flyers with a WICKED point shot, great for tipping, Simmonds would have a literal field day tipping home Krug shots! It also puts a direct conference rival in a very bad spot. They have very limited cap space as we speak, and have Bartokowski, Caron, Riley Smith and Krug as RFA's right now. If you put in a offer sheet....you either force a trade out of them....essentially making them move a Marchand for a much lower price because their backs would be to the wall.....or maybe, just maybe you force them to walk away from Krug altogether. Either way, it weakens team that is considered one of the better Eastern teams...a team we have to inevitably leapfrog to get to the promised land.

I say put in an offer of 3,999,999 ....a buck below the next threshold of 2 1sts and one 2nd and one 3rd. This offer requires a payment of a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. A big price to pay? Yes, of course, but he offense and youth you'd be getting back are top notch. The kid was a Calder finalist and put up 40 pts in his first full year. Lot's and lot's of upside here....I'd be very interested....and it makes the defense more mobile.

You raise good points buddy and I like Krug, but the price is just too high IMHO

[jammer2]

@Podein25  I just think he is close to a guaranteed return, where the draft is an obvious crap shoot. For the people saying 2015 is a deep draft, I understand your position, and agree, it makes this type of move all that much tougher to contemplate. Don't think the Flyers will try this, but if no one tries, I say collusion is at hand.

[Podein25]

@Podein25 I just think he is close to a guaranteed return, where the draft is an obvious crap shoot. For the people saying 2015 is a deep draft, I understand your position, and agree, it makes this type of move all that much tougher to contemplate. Don't think the Flyers will try this, but if no one tries, I say collusion is at hand.

I don't disagree with you on your last point. You can count the number of offer sheets on one hand...

[aziz]

not with a deep draft next year..i want as many picks as possible..i'd pass..talk to me next year

 

then again, this is exactly the kind of player you'd hope to draft with those picks.  so, on the one hand, you have a, what, 33% chance of drafting an actual NHL player, and on the other, you have an actual NHL player who looks like he might become one of the best at his position.

 

33% chance of someone who can take a regular shift in the NHL versus an established NHL player with a better than even chance of becoming an NHL standout.  dunno how you go with the 33% chance.

[intheslot]

Sounds like a rolling rock to me #33

[Irishjim]

then again, this is exactly the kind of player you'd hope to draft with those picks.  so, on the one hand, you have a, what, 33% chance of drafting an actual NHL player, and on the other, you have an actual NHL player who looks like he might become one of the best at his position.

 

33% chance of someone who can take a regular shift in the NHL versus an established NHL player with a better than even chance of becoming an NHL standout.  dunno how you go with the 33% chance.

while i don't disagree with any thing you have said..in the end its all a crap shoot. this kid could be the real deal or just a media hype. this draft has been said to be one of the deepest drafts in recent history..this to could be true or more media hype.  we need depth in the farm system top to bottom and i'm not sold on trading a 1, 2 and 3. 

[Irishjim]

@Podein25  I just think he is close to a guaranteed return, where the draft is an obvious crap shoot. For the people saying 2015 is a deep draft, I understand your position, and agree, it makes this type of move all that much tougher to contemplate. Don't think the Flyers will try this, but if no one tries, I say collusion is at hand.

jammer its the deep draft thing is why i'd pass. if this draft was 3 can't miss player and the rest are the revenge of tim tookie..i'm sold make the offer sheet

[AJgoal]

while i don't disagree with any thing you have said..in the end its all a crap shoot. this kid could be the real deal or just a media hype. this draft has been said to be one of the deepest drafts in recent history..this to could be true or more media hype.  we need depth in the farm system top to bottom and i'm not sold on trading a 1, 2 and 3. 

 

So sign him to 3.3 million a year. It's only a second rounder, and it still forces the Bruins' hand.

[aziz]

@Irishjim

 

i gotcha.  i just think that "deep draft" means that the first 15 draftees have a good chance at being NHL players, rather than just the top 5.  rounds 2 and 3 are the same old "probably not", and 2nd round picks can be grabbed for cast offs at the deadline.

 

as for media hype, i'm not entirely sure it applies in this case.  the kid really did put up 40 points as a rookie dman, and then really did lead all bruins in postseason scoring.  that starts to not be hype and just be what he has done, you know?

 

the really crazy thing is he went undrafted.  

 

all of this underscores my thought that the draft is a giant blackjack table, and the draft order is the seating position, right to left.  i'd give up my seat at that table for a $10,000 chip in hand.

[Irishjim]

So sign him to 3.3 million a year. It's only a second rounder, and it still forces the Bruins' hand.

jammer said its a 1, 2 & 3..if its only a 2 different story

[Podein25]

This thread begs the question: what other RFAs/offer sheet opportunities are out there?

Or is there already a thread for that?

[Polaris922]

And the kid has to accept it. He has the right to refuse the offer outright in which case you only pissed off another GM, and maybe have a few others decide you're garbage.

[AJgoal]

@Irishjim - Jammer and JT left out the lower end of the compensation scale:

under 1,110,249 - No compensation

over 1,110,249 to 1,682,194 - 3rd round selection

over 1,1682,194 to 3,364,391 - 2nd round selection

over 3,364,392 to 5,046,585 - 1st and 3rd round selection

over 5,046,586 to 6,728,781 - 1st, 2nd, 3rd round selection

over 6,728,782 to 8,410,976 - two 1sts, 2nd, 3rd round selection

over 8,410,976 - four 1st round selections

Other than Boston's Krug and Bartkowski, there's not a lot of options for putting a team over the barrel with an offer sheet this year. There are some players like PK Subban, Gudbradsen, Franson, and Zuccarello that are interesting, but their teams have a good amount of space and would match anything but an over-the-top offer. You could potentially handcuff the Penguins with an offer to Sutter, but it would need to be in the 1st and 3rd round selection bracket at least, and it doesn't really fill a need (though if you really wanted to mess with them, you could offer both Sutter and Despres at 5 and 3 million, respectively. That would be overpaying on both counts, but you'd pretty much be guaranteed one of the two, likely Despres - assuming they sign the sheets). O'Reilly can't receive one as the team has elected arbitration. Next year are where things become interesting, when half of LA's and Chicago's teams are hitting free agency, so teams could make plays on Muzzin and Leddy.

Flyers of course would need some cap space, as was mentioned in the OP.

Edited July 3, 2014 by AJgoal

[J0e Th0rnton]

@Irishjim - Jammer and JT left out the lower end of the compensation scale:

under 1,110,249 - No compensation

over 1,110,249 to 1,682,194 - 3rd round selection

over 1,1682,194 to 3,364,391 - 2nd round selection

over 3,364,392 to 5,046,585 - 1st and 3rd round selection

over 5,046,586 to 6,728,781 - 1st, 2nd, 3rd round selection

over 6,728,782 to 8,410,976 - two 1sts, 2nd, 3rd round selection

over 8,410,976 - four 1st round selections

Other than Boston's Krug and Bartkowski, there's not a lot of options for putting a team over the barrel with an offer sheet this year. There are some players like PK Subban, Gudbradsen, Franson, and Zuccarello that are interesting, but their teams have a good amount of space and would match anything but an over-the-top offer. You could potentially handcuff the Penguins with an offer to Sutter, but it would need to be in the 1st and 3rd round selection bracket at least, and it doesn't really fill a need (though if you really wanted to mess with them, you could offer both Sutter and Despres at 5 and 3 million, respectively. That would be overpaying on both counts, but you'd pretty much be guaranteed one of the two, likely Despres - assuming they sign the sheets). O'Reilly can't receive one as the team has elected arbitration. Next year are where things become interesting, when half of LA's and Chicago's teams are hitting free agency, so teams could make plays on Muzzin and Leddy.

Flyers of course would need some cap space, as was mentioned in the OP.

Bostons Reilly smith just scored 51 points in his first full season, was +28 and is RFA. Krug, smith and Bart

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

Do it Homer...err...Hexy!!!

I think you would have to offer north of $5mm before Boston would let him walk. But I definitely agree with forcing their hand. Put the pressure on.

Edited July 3, 2014 by AlaskaFlyerFan