COMBINED: "Whither or Not Vinny"

[radoran]

As I read it after the 2M signing bonus VLC is due 14.5 over the next four years with a cap hit of 4.5

I am not entirely sure how it works from here even with the capgeek FAQ but if the Flyers agree to pay 1.5 a year, 6M, They would retain 1.86 of the cap hit? (41.5%)

[J0e Th0rnton]

Kennedy has played wing his whole NHL career. His failing has nothing to do with position. Lol

Did he? I was just assuming he was a center because he was listed as such.

 

In any case, the rest of the Sharks do pretty well switching from center to wing. Thornton and Couture are the only two who never move from center

[OccamsRazor]

Trade B. Schenn and whatever for a LW and put VLC as 2nd line center and hope for the best.

Holmgren forced his head coaches to play too many guys out of position

 

 

I say trade Brayden Schenn for PK Subban and Carey Price...then Mason will have his backup and Flyers can switch Subban to LW!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Do it Hexy!!!!!!!!!

 

Do it!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Don't be scurd!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Flyingswede]

We just have to get rid of him. I think Vinny was lazy even at his best days. I have never liked him and his style, its soooo not flyerish. I dont want him to take a roster spot, pay him and let him sit. Let a youngster from AHL play 4th line. 

Edited July 5, 2014 by Flyingswede

[OccamsRazor]

We just have to get rid of him. I think Vinny was lazy even at his best days. I have never liked him and his style, its soooo not flyerish. I dont want him to take a roster spot, pay him and let him sit. Let a youngster from AHL play 4th line.

I actually wouldn't mind him as a 3rd line center besides his contract, the problem is they already have Coots as 3rd line center. A lot of people forget be sides the whole team sruggling the first month, he wasn't bad.

Yes he is slow and well you don't usually get faster as you age. So like Luke once you get past the speed issue it isn't the end of the world to still have Vinny.

Besides the cap hit of course.

the real issue is Hexy spending past the cap.

it's like going in the grocery store with only $100 to spend and then spending $130 and praying someone will give you 30 bucks before you reach check out who does that?

just don't paint yourself into corner then expect someone else to help you out

[J0e Th0rnton]

We just have to get rid of him. I think Vinny was lazy even at his best days. I have never liked him and his style, its soooo not flyerish. I dont want him to take a roster spot, pay him and let him sit. Let a youngster from AHL play 4th line. 

The idea would work if only you had, well, cap space.

 

The problem with calling someone up is that their two way contract also hits into the cap for as long as they are up.. So even if they are a bare minimum NHL salary, you are 3 million over the cap already and Pronger's contract coming off will only put you just below the cap, and you cannot afford to add the $700K-$900K. It also burns a year off their entry level deals if they play more than 10 games.

 

So yeah, having Umberger and Lecavalier being your most expensive forwards after Giroux is ugly. As Ugly as I felt paying Havlat or Heatley. I personally have nothing against the Flyers and we play in a different conference, so I kind of pray that somehow, those two find some chemistry together and work out better than they have the last little while for your sakes. Because nobody will take those contracts, and if someone were to brain fart and take them, they would probably invoke their NMC's.

 

I am sure Hextall has a dartboard in his office with Holmgren's face on it and cough's an expletive every time they walk by each other.

[aziz]

We just have to get rid of him. I think Vinny was lazy even at his best days. I have never liked him and his style, its soooo not flyerish.

For what it's worth, I think that was the point of adding him. Mix it up and add some offensive flare, avoiding the truculence trap Toronto and Calgary have fallen into.

[radoran]

avoiding the truculence trap Toronto and Calgary have fallen into.

 

Quite frankly, if Homer* was giving any thought to "not becoming Tronno or Calgary" I think we've discovered the root of the problem.

 

The Flyers were in the Cup Final in 2010. The Leafs and Flames have barely made the playoffs in the past decade.

 

There isn't even the remotest comparison to be made.

 

IMO, natch.

 

 

* #homercoaster™

[aziz]

@radoran

Yup, not following you at all.

It makes some sense to me that adding a pure finesse player to a team that already had Hartnell, Simmonds, the two Schenns, Grossmann, couturier, Rinaldo, etc could be a goal. Not at all sure what you are getting at.

[Howie58]

Howdy:

 

Could they waive him to the A?  I doubt there would be many takers on a recall.  That would save us cap and as Knut points out...might embarrass him to point of moving on. 

 

Howie

[OccamsRazor]

Howdy:

 

Could they waive him to the A?  I doubt there would be many takers on a recall.  That would save us cap and as Knut points out...might embarrass him to point of moving on. 

 

Howie

No he has a no movent clause so he can't be sent down he can only be scratched and out in the pressbox. And there is no waiving someone and getting their whole caphit off the books now the max you can off the books 925K that is it.

[Howie58]

Occam:

 

Thanks for the update.  I really wonder if we are stuck with the dude. I don't see many takers out there. Maybe we pray for an unlikely improvement this season.  

 

Best,

Howie

[Irishjim]

because we don't hate vinny that much just his contract..just shows hexy has a heart

[flyercanuck]

Why would the Leafs want to have the contracts of  Lecavalier AND Phaneuf and Clarkson?

[ClassicJ]

Yeah, It would be preferrable to lose Lecavalier, more specifically to lose his salary, but keeping him really isn't the worst case scenario. He had a rough season last year, it's true. He still scored 20 goals playing a system that doesn't suit his game, with a rotating 2nd line of youngsters and often out of his natural position.

 

The refreshing thing about Hextall thus far though is that he seems committed to making move when it makes sense. If Nashville is asking too much (and it seems they are), carry an experienced (if overpaid) player into the season, help him to a solid campaign, then trade him at the deadline to someone looking for a bit more scoring to get over the hump.  

[flyercanuck]

@ClassicJ

 

 Hopefully it actually works out that way. 

[Flyingswede]

For what it's worth, I think that was the point of adding him. Mix it up and add some offensive flare, avoiding the truculence trap Toronto and Calgary have fallen into.

 

Ofcourse it was, but what offensive flare? we never saw it, we just paid for it without getting it. Dont get me wrong, he was a really good player back in the days. But its not just about points... its about attitude, good work ethic, team spirit. I know we dont have cap space, its a waste having him on bench but if no other team wants him that should be a message to vinny too. Earn your sallary or sit. Still hoping for a trade thou

[doom88]

Yeah, It would be preferrable to lose Lecavalier, more specifically to lose his salary, but keeping him really isn't the worst case scenario. He had a rough season last year, it's true. He still scored 20 goals playing a system that doesn't suit his game, with a rotating 2nd line of youngsters and often out of his natural position.

The refreshing thing about Hextall thus far though is that he seems committed to making move when it makes sense. If Nashville is asking too much (and it seems they are), carry an experienced (if overpaid) player into the season, help him to a solid campaign, then trade him at the deadline to someone looking for a bit more scoring to get over the hump.

Very reasonable approach.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Yeah, It would be preferrable to lose Lecavalier, more specifically to lose his salary, but keeping him really isn't the worst case scenario. He had a rough season last year, it's true. He still scored 20 goals playing a system that doesn't suit his game, with a rotating 2nd line of youngsters and often out of his natural position.

 

The refreshing thing about Hextall thus far though is that he seems committed to making move when it makes sense. If Nashville is asking too much (and it seems they are), carry an experienced (if overpaid) player into the season, help him to a solid campaign, then trade him at the deadline to someone looking for a bit more scoring to get over the hump.  

That's what I hope we do with Niemi haha. Granted, his contract is up after next season and does not cap bind us. But A former Vezina finalist at the trade deadline will garner more of a return if he puts up solid numbers. I am guessing Stalock will get most of the tough starts to test his mettle, and Niemi will get the easier ones to bolster his numbers. But both will probably play 40 games or so.

[doom88]

That's what I hope we do with Niemi haha. Granted, his contract is up after next season and does not cap bind us. But A former Vezina finalist at the trade deadline will garner more of a return if he puts up solid numbers. I am guessing Stalock will get most of the tough starts to test his mettle, and Niemi will get the easier ones to bolster his numbers. But both will probably play 40 games or so.

Niemi for VLC? The final piece to put the Sharks over the top finally

[ClassicJ]

@J0e Th0rnton

 

I don't know much about Stalok, well nothing at all really, but if he's got legit game that seems like a solid approach. Can't afford to be too sentimental with your roster in the salary cap era and I think more teams are starting to realize that. Chicago should be the model: won a stanley cup in 2010, traded their starting goalie and a promising young player and got value in return, won another Stanley cup a couple years later and could have easily won a third if they had held a game 7 lead against the Kings.    

[J0e Th0rnton]

Niemi for VLC? The final piece to put the Sharks over the top finally

Rofl.

 

Niemi, if he has a solid season, will be a rental we can get a draft pick for. Only 1 season left on his contract. Trust me when I say we are not trading for another center. We have 9 of them.

 

VLC is a guy you will have to package a draft pick with for something like "VLC + a 2nd round pick for Insert B level AHL prospect here" just to get a team to take his salary without you retaining.

[jammer2]

We just have to get rid of him. I think Vinny was lazy even at his best days. I have never liked him and his style, its soooo not flyerish. I dont want him to take a roster spot, pay him and let him sit. Let a youngster from AHL play 4th line. 

 

 I dunno, Vinny seemed to play a pretty decent all round game when he was having his top years. He was never great on defense, but he used to do a lot more than this current downtrodden version. My working theory is somewhere around 3-4 years ago, he stopped caring about defense, or giving 100% effort for that matter. I think the big deal and the accompanying financial security made VLC a fat cat, a complacent star who was satisfied with floating through the twilight of his career. Following this line of thought, Vinny became even more complacent with the buy out and Flyer deals, it's all just gravy now, he does not need to win....he has his Cup and his money. I just knew this was a bad idea from the friggin start.

 

   Vinny has been *outright* lazy for at least 3 years now. I was screaming this from the hilltops when we first got this clown. I think the one thing that turns a lot of fans off is that Vinny comes off as aloof, which, as we know is not a very *Flyerlike* thing. He never fit in from the very start. If he somehow starts training camp, this whole thing could get very ugly, even for Philly.

[aziz]

My working theory is somewhere around 3-4 years ago, he stopped caring about defense, or giving 100% effort for that matter.

 

personally, i think he's always been like that. 10 years ago, a well built team could include offense-only players like alexei kovalev or VLC and still be successful, so long as the rest of the roster rounded out enough to cover.  i think it is still that way, really, or can be, but it takes a REALLY strong roster to do it.  patrick kane gets all dizzy when he crosses over his defensive blueline, but it doesn't matter, his teammates are more than up to the task of making it ok.  

 

the VLC you see today is what happens when that kind of player gets older, suffers an injury that changes his game hugely, and loses the edge to that something special that made the offensive contributions outweigh the defensive oversight.

[jammer2]

@aziz  As you know, plus minus can be a misleading stat at times, but in general, his career tends to support your theory more than mine. Even when he was scoring big, he was -20 something quite a lot. Kinda weird, he has that one year 03-04 where he's a +23.....and the rest are crap totals.

 

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=26809