doom88 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 If the choice is 4th line or AHL time, I agree with Hexy. I also don't doubt that if he belongs on the top 3 lines, he'll stick. I think Raffl is your 4th line center, since they've had ample opportunity to bring back Hall or another veteran for that slot and haven't done so.Raffl is too talented for the fourth line, unless it's a roll four lines type.I'd retry Raffl, G, and Voracek. This time with a training camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Raffl is too talented for the fourth line, unless it's a roll four lines type.I'd retry Raffl, G, and Voracek. This time with a training camp.Yeah Bellemare could center the the 4th line...a lot to workout between now and the start of the season...I'd imagine a player or two to be signed for a tryout too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Quigster Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I'll bite, what would you take back for G as being full value? To answer the question what I think Giroux might bring,well with Lavi being the Pred's coach how about Webber and Jones straight up for Giroux and VLC? That would finally get the Flyers a little better defense and the Preds some real offense. Would that make everybody happy? I'll bet Lavi would like it !("The Best Player in the World") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I thought Bellemare was a winger.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingswede Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 That would be a huge no. Giroux is what makes this club tick. Move him and immediately, the team loses it's single most dynamic player on offense. As well, none of the other centers on this roster can do what Giroux does. There's nobody who is as good as him offensively and more important, there is nobody on this roster who makes players better the way Giroux does. Giroux is definitely the most untouchable player on this roster. I Agree. Taking Giroux out of the team would be like taking the Hemi out of my car and replace it with a compost. Giroux is the reason im not as worried as I should be about our team. I think we have a really crappy roster... im not used with such a crappy roster as a flyers fan. It will be an ugly season 2014/2015 but Giroux would be the only guy to enjoy. Im confident we have a future roster, many of our players will be good in a few years and we have some realy good youngsters to try the big team later on. But its important to keep Giroux! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 To answer the question what I think Giroux might bring,well with Lavi being the Pred's coach how about Webber and Jones straight up for Giroux and VLC? That would finally get the Flyers a little better defense and the Preds some real offense. Would that make everybody happy? I'll bet Lavi would like it !("The Best Player in the World")I've often wondered how quickly Lavi regretted that best player in the world comment. Without evaluating the likelihood of such a trade (since I don't think that's what you were inferring), I'll say it really is almost impossible to get full value when trading a superstar level player in the NHL. Mostly because its so tough to define and value their contribution to the team; Giroux's value to the Flyers is likely greater than the value that a potential trading partner would place on him.I don't think there's a Flyer fan anywhere who wouldnt want Weber on the squad. But is he worth losing Giroux?IMO the forward lines fall apart without that #1 linchpin at Center. Short of something implausible like getting Crosby, or getting back a "Herschel Walker" truckload of #1 picks, I just don't think there's any way you can trade Giroux and feel like they were a better team after the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) To answer the question what I think Giroux might bring,well with Lavi being the Pred's coach how about Webber and Jones straight up for Giroux and VLC? That would finally get the Flyers a little better defense and the Preds some real offense. Would that make everybody happy? I'll bet Lavi would like it !("The Best Player in the World") I might be signing my own doom by saying this in this section, but Giroux is not worth Weber straight up(Close, but not worth it), let alone Weber and Jones. VLC is a throw in you guys WANT to get rid of and nobody wants unless you retain half his salary. Don't kid yourself. Jones is projected to become Weber 2.0 in a few years even though he was thrown to the wolves early. Giroux+ Coburn + Gostisbehere + 1st for Weber and Jones and I still think Nashville would not do it. Poile values defensemen over forwards and always has. If the Flyers were to do business with Nashville.......... Something unlikely since, well, you guys are kind of in Nashville's doghouse. They chose to sign a player with noted drug and party problems to a minimum contract rather than go cross conference for VLC when they are hurting for even a number 2 center, Who you would have given them for future considerations and a 7th round pick just to dump his contract. Edit, and yes, while I think Weber is more valuable overall, I think Giroux is more valuable to the flyers Edited July 15, 2014 by J0e Th0rnton 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 If the choice is 4th line or AHL time, I agree with Hexy. I also don't doubt that if he belongs on the top 3 lines, he'll stick. I think Raffl is your 4th line center, since they've had ample opportunity to bring back Hall or another veteran for that slot and haven't done so. Doh! Forgot about Raffl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam1986 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 It sounds like we have most of our top 12 guys already. Schenn/G/JakeSimmonds/VLC/UmbergerBellemare/Couturier/ReadAkeson/Laughton/Rinaldo If we accept that Schenn is a winger - at least for this year - then there is a natural spot for Vinny. Even with Vinny, there are at least 3 question marks in that lineup - Akeson, Bellemare, and Laughton. None are assured a roster spot. So giving away a forward for basically nothing weakens our forward group. Unless, of course, one believes that Schenn is much better suited as 2nd line center.where's Raffi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) SI might be signing my own doom by saying this in this section, but Giroux is not worth Weber straight up(Close, but not worth it), let alone Weber and Jones. VLC is a throw in you guys WANT to get rid of and nobody wants unless you retain half his salary. Don't kid yourself. Jones is projected to become Weber 2.0 in a few years even though he was thrown to the wolves early.Giroux+ Coburn + Gostisbehere + 1st for Weber and Jones and I still think Nashville would not do it. Poile values defensemen over forwards and always has.If the Flyers were to do business with Nashville.......... Something unlikely since, well, you guys are kind of in Nashville's doghouse. They chose to sign a player with noted drug and party problems to a minimum contract rather than go cross conference for VLC when they are hurting for even a number 2 center, Who you would have given them for future considerations and a 7th round pick just to dump his contract.Edit, and yes, while I think Weber is more valuable overall, I think Giroux is more valuable to the flyersWell no way I give up all that for Weber anyways I'd prefer to keep G and the gang. And who knows they may have a Weber type already in Morin and Sanheim we'll have to wait and see. Sanheim had better numbers than Weber did his first year of juniors so we don't know. Weber also cost more than all those guys too.So I'll keep what we got and they can keep those two fine by me. Edited July 15, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 S Well no way I give up all that for Weber anyways I'd prefer to keep G and the gang. And who knows they may have a Weber type already in Morin and Sanheim we'll have to wait and see. Sanheim had better numbers than Weber did his first year of juniors so we don't know. Weber also cost more than all those guys too.So I'll keep what we got and they can keep those two fine by me. If Nashville had not matched the offer sheet, we would have given up two 1st round picks, a 2nd and a 3rd. Not sure if the 2nd and 3rd have to be in the next scheduled draft, but if so, here's the real cost of Weber: LaughtonMorinStolarz (or Hagg depending on rules for own picks vs acquired pick)Ghost Or if Homer had worked out a trade with Nashville so they don't match, it sounds like it would have involved Couturier and a few more valuable pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 If Nashville had not matched the offer sheet, we would have given up two 1st round picks, a 2nd and a 3rd. Not sure if the 2nd and 3rd have to be in the next scheduled draft, but if so, here's the real cost of Weber: LaughtonMorinStolarz (or Hagg depending on rules for own picks vs acquired pick)Ghost Or if Homer had worked out a trade with Nashville so they don't match, it sounds like it would have involved Couturier and a few more valuable pieces. Actually, the compensation would have been Morin, Sanheim, and the next two years' firsts. It was a four first round pick offer sheet because compensation is determined by the higher of the average annual value, or the total contract divided by five. And since the offer sheet was signed after the draft, Laughton was already in the fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Actually, the compensation would have been Morin, Sanheim, and the next two years' firsts. It was a four first round pick offer sheet because compensation is determined by the higher of the average annual value, or the total contract divided by five. And since the offer sheet was signed after the draft, Laughton was already in the fold. I've never heard of the "divided by 5" portion. Interesting. It will take a decade to know what our picks turn out to be, but it just seems like a really high price to pay. I understand what Weber brings, but giving up those picks forces the franchise to build a frankensquad the way they'd been doing for years. EDIT: Found this bit on TSN, which is more confusing:http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=400969 Compensation in the form of draft picks for the Predators should they choose not to match the Flyers offer is tied to the average per-year cap hit of the offer sheet. It is expected the Predators would receive four first round draft picks. They mention nothing of the "divided by 5" clause, yet claim that the AAV would have returned them four 1st rounders, which doesn't match up with the compensation schedule I found for that year. Four 1st rounders only started at $8.4M AAV or higher, whereas this contract has Weber at $7.8M AAV. In the end, who cares because it never happened. But it's still confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Here's the citation from the old CBA which the sheet was signed under: 10.4 Draft Choice Compensation for Restricted Free Agents Any Club that is entitled to but does not exercise its Right of First Refusal pursuant to Section 10.3 shall be entitled to obtain Draft Choice Compensation from the New Club. The number and quality of draft choices due to the Prior Club shall be based on the average annual value of the compensation contained in the Principal Terms (as defined in Section 10.3(e) hereof) of the New Club's Offer Sheet (determined by dividing such compensation by the lesser of the number of years of the Offer Sheet or five) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Here's the citation from the old CBA which the sheet was signed under: 10.4 Draft Choice Compensation for Restricted Free Agents Any Club that is entitled to but does not exercise its Right of First Refusal pursuant to Section 10.3 shall be entitled to obtain Draft Choice Compensation from the New Club. The number and quality of draft choices due to the Prior Club shall be based on the average annual value of the compensation contained in the Principal Terms (as defined in Section 10.3(e) hereof) of the New Club's Offer Sheet (determined by dividing such compensation by the lesser of the number of years of the Offer Sheet or five) Thanks for the info, AJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Thanks for the info, AJ. Yes thank God it didn't happen. Flyers have a nice cupboard full of prospects now so they have planted the seed they just need to let them grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Flyers have a nice cupboard full of prospects now so they have planted the seed they just need to let them grow. Hexy = Bob MarleySnider = Sheriff John Brown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Webber and Jones straight up for Giroux and VLC? and I can hear the Preds laughing from Nashville at that proposal. Why would the Preds even remotely comnsider that deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Probably have to look more like: Giroux, Couturier, Morin, 1st for Nashville to even consider that deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSlackDelta Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 why are people still talking about trading Giroux? You guys understand how absolutely stupid trading him would be, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 why are people still talking about trading Giroux?Bored.It's July.It's better than working. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 @NoSlackDelta I think we all put it to bed, I think it's more of the hypothetical situation. Better question would be if one is so annoyed, why open the thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.