bertuzzi Moore lawsuit appears settled

[J0e Th0rnton]

I'm thinking you must be following "the green stuff" topic because to relate Moore skating up the ice to get into a play in a professional sport with some punk kid picking fights on the street and being the aggressor tells me you're high. Lol

 

Maybe. But it is still closer to the truth than random thug teenagers sucker punching an unsuspecting Pedestrian.

 

A better comparison would tough gorilla retaliation mentality teenager sucker punching a headhunting Pedestrian who they saw mark and blast their father in the head and give him a concussion a few weeks back. Said pedestrian then exchanged a few shots and came out unscathed with the little brother. Big brother is still going to jump in when he is on the same street weeks later and pedestrian wanted nothing to do with big brother.

[Polaris922]

Maybe. But it is still closer to the truth than random thug teenagers sucker punching an unsuspecting Pedestrian.

A better comparison would tough gorilla retaliation mentality teenager sucker punching a headhunting Pedestrian who they saw mark and blast their father in the head and give him a concussion a few weeks back. Said pedestrian then exchanged a few shots and came out unscathed with the little brother. Big brother is still going to jump in when he is on the same street weeks later and pedestrian wanted nothing to do with big brother.

You're almost right...

IF you ignore the fact that Moore didnt blast Naslund and Naslund is as much to blame for the head contact as Moore is.

IF you ignore the fact that Moore already fought once over it, and that satisfies the so called "code" which is more and more BS anyway. (Ask Thornton)

IF you ignore the fact that the very attack referred to (McSorley) went to criminal court as well and the only real difference was McSorley used a stick where Bertuzzi cashed in three tickets and rode Moore into the ground like a ride on the caterpillar.

So yeah... Take most of the facts out if the assault and you can blame it in Moore. I mean, what right does he have to live a normal life without traumatic injury?

[J0e Th0rnton]

You're almost right...

IF you ignore the fact that Moore didnt blast Naslund and Naslund is as much to blame for the head contact as Moore is.

IF you ignore the fact that Moore already fought once over it, and that satisfies the so called "code" which is more and more BS anyway. (Ask Thornton)

IF you ignore the fact that the very attack referred to (McSorley) went to criminal court as well and the only real difference was McSorley used a stick where Bertuzzi cashed in three tickets and rode Moore into the ground like a ride on the caterpillar.

So yeah... Take most of the facts out if the assault and you can blame it in Moore. I mean, what right does he have to live a normal life without traumatic injury?

- IMO, Moore was headhunting. Barely NHL player trying to make a name for himself. Didn't even try to play the puck.

- Moore's "Fight" with Cooke does not even begin to satisfy the code to some people. You saw random guys just start getting wailed on much worse in the 80's and early 90's. By real heavyweights, not chippy lightweights.

-McSorely is not what I was referring to, but it is one, sure. I have seen way worse. Hero Mark Messier used to routinely butt end people in the face and take them out with concussions. etc etc. But that is okay since no permanent damage was done. Ulf Samuelsson used to intentionally stick people in the eye to "agitate" them. but only one career ended because of that, so its okay. Let's not even get started with his intentional knee on knees. Don't even get me started on Bobby Clarke in exhibition games.

 

And yeah, I have seen people skating 30 miles an hour intentionally jump all 250 pounds of themselves into the air and crush another person's head into the boards, even though it is against the rules.

 

-IMO, Bertuzzi fell with him as he fell while holding him trying to wind up another. Nothing more, nothing less. I've done the same thing in Krav Maga during spars. When you are holding someone's clothing for leverage and he suddenly drops while you are moving forward, it happens(In my case, I try not to land in his full guard) We already argued this one to death and the hockey world seems 50/50 split on it.

 

So yeah, Moore headshoted and concussed the teams best player, their friend, and leader..... and by their point of view, intentionally. In a sport filled with hyper competitive Alpha males playing a contact sport in which fighting and punching people in the head is merely frowned upon with a 5 minute sit in the sin bin, and much worse has been done without injury other than a few black eyes and slight concussion........

 

This was an accident as far as I am concerned. If he had died, it would be manslaughter, not murder. So yes, Moore deserves everything he would have made in a Hockey career since it ended. But since I think he was a fringe call up only there due to injuries to the Avs squad and destined for a life in the minors, it is most certainly not more than 5-6 million.

[Vanflyer]

It might have been 3 weeks between games, however, the canucks were absolutely convinced Moore was a cup of coffee barely NHL caliber call up trying to make a name for himself by showing he will headhunt and take out star players. Revenge was going to happen one way or the other, and not the "fight another small guy" type revenge. The "get your head beat in for intentionally taking out our top player" type. A mere fight is not enough. Bettman attending the next game as a "Behave, or else" gesture delayed it.
 
Obviously, no, he was not expecting that type of revenge. Neither was I. but I was not surprised. It is hardly the worst thing I have ever seen. In fact, I have seen far worse sucker punches and deliberate baseball swinging of sticks. Of course, the way he landed and the end result of several thousand pounds of bodies, legs and skates piling on top of his head was not what was intended at all IMO.
 
Either way, it was the result being punished, not the crime. And it was punished. I agree Moore is entitled to some repayment financially. But IMO, he is a 2-3 year at most 4th line shrub only there because of injuries call up at league minimum pay, and then a 10 year AHLer. Even Avs fans at the time were never surprised when he was sent back down to the minors 4 times and could not wait for real players and bottom liners to get healthy. The Avs had ridiculous amount of injuries that year.

 

I could not agree more or have articulated it any better. Your synopsis is 100% dead on. A scrub taking out the leagues top player. 

[Polaris922]

Assault is assault. If Bertuzzi was so innocent, he wouldn't have pled guilty. And if you think the Moore "hit" (and I quote it because it BARELY applies) was that bad, you must be ignoring your own argument. All those bad things you mention in hockey... And you think the bump on Naslund deserves a life altering injury... I think you made your mind up on this before having all the facts, and just refuse to change it because that would mean you were wrong in the first place. Im disappointed an avid hockey fan such as yourself thinks there's room for this kind of mentality.

You go ahead with last word. I'm done.

[yave1964]

@jammer2

Dave Forbes literally blinded Henry Boucha (okay, maybe not blinded but permanent damage to his eye that ended his career at 25) with a stick to the face, there was no video of the incident and the jury was hung. A financial settlement was reached out of court.

Dan Maloney was charged with assault for his attack on Glennie back in, 1975 or 76, I am doing this from memory so forgive me. Maloney was found guilty and was fined and not allowed to play in Ontario for a year.

Wilf Paiement swung his stick like an axe and hit Dennis Polonich shattering his nose, Polo sued and won a little over 800 grand.

Dino Ciccarelli had his incident where he was convicted for assault of Luke Richardson for an on ice stick incident in 87 or 88.

Of course, the McSorley and Brashear incident where McSorley was reviled and charged.

So yeah, lots of these, I am sure I missed a bunch, this was off the top of my head. Of these, Boucha successfully settled a financial agreement and Polo won his case against Wilf. So there is a precedent. The Moore/Bertuzzi incident was unique in so many ways however.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Assault is assault. If Bertuzzi was so innocent, he wouldn't have pled guilty. And if you think the Moore "hit" (and I quote it because it BARELY applies) was that bad, you must be ignoring your own argument. All those bad things you mention in hockey... And you think the bump on Naslund deserves a life altering injury... I think you made your mind up on this before having all the facts, and just refuse to change it because that would mean you were wrong in the first place. Im disappointed an avid hockey fan such as yourself thinks there's room for this kind of mentality.

You go ahead with last word. I'm done.

 

 

It was an accident. He meant to hurt him in the sense of causing pain. Not maim him and cause career ending injury. It is part of the game. At least the game I grew up watching. Call up slugs looking to make a name for themselves by targetting star players when they get the chance need a lesson. This one accidentally went too far.

 

I have seen far worse hits, attacks, etc not result in any problems and only mild suspensions. And the players who did those things are now considered legends of the game, to be copied, emulated and heralded by young rising players.

 

So yeah, Moore deserves a few years of league minimum pay and a decade of AHL pay(As that was all he was good for). but no, Bertuzzi does not deserve to get treated like he meant to cripple him and mass villification even as guys like Ulf Samuelsson and Mark Messier get treated like it was just a part of their game and are legendary awesome to their fanbases. It was an accident that could have happened a million times before and just happened to go bad this time.

 

The players, including his own former teammates, are treating him like he broke Omerta for what he is doing. So you can be disappointed in me all you want, but feel free to hate all the players not defending him too.

 

If Crosby's spear to Dominic Moore's nuts resulted in Moore not being able to ever have kids because he got under the cup and ruptured his testicle, would you be calling for Crosby to never play another NHL game again? Clearly he meant to spear him in the nuts with a weapon. it just turned out worse than intended.

 

Exactly the same thing.

[jammer2]

@yave1964  Excellent memory for right off the top of your head bro. I had totally forgot about the Glennie and Polonich incidents. I don't think it ever transpired, but I remember the Toronto Police pondering whether or not to charge Domi after he knocked out Ulf.

[Polaris922]

It was an accident. He meant to hurt him in the sense of causing pain. Not maim him and cause career ending injury. It is part of the game. At least the game I grew up watching. Call up slugs looking to make a name for themselves by targetting star players when they get the chance need a lesson. This one accidentally went too far.

I have seen far worse hits, attacks, etc not result in any problems and only mild suspensions. And the players who did those things are now considered legends of the game, to be copied, emulated and heralded by young rising players.

So yeah, Moore deserves a few years of league minimum pay and a decade of AHL pay(As that was all he was good for). but no, Bertuzzi does not deserve to get treated like he meant to cripple him and mass villification even as guys like Ulf Samuelsson and Mark Messier get treated like it was just a part of their game and are legendary awesome to their fanbases. It was an accident that could have happened a million times before and just happened to go bad this time.

The players, including his own former teammates, are treating him like he broke Omerta for what he is doing. So you can be disappointed in me all you want, but feel free to hate all the players not defending him too.

If Crosby's spear to Dominic Moore's nuts resulted in Moore not being able to ever have kids because he got under the cup and ruptured his testicle, would you be calling for Crosby to never play another NHL game again? Clearly he meant to spear him in the nuts with a weapon. it just turned out worse than intended.

Exactly the same thing.

A man is responsible for the results of his actions. Intent leads to grading of punishment. If Crosby seriously injured Moore then I would be rooting for Moore to get his money to compensate. Absolutely. And I disagree with riding a guy into the ice being an accident, but we've been over that and you're convinced he "tripped".

[J0e Th0rnton]

A man is responsible for the results of his actions. Intent leads to grading of punishment. If Crosby seriously injured Moore then I would be rooting for Moore to get his money to compensate. Absolutely. And I disagree with riding a guy into the ice being an accident, but we've been over that and you're convinced he "tripped".

I'm convinced he was holding on to wind up for another punch and yeah, when skating forward if the guy right in front of you goes down, you are almost certainly going down too.

 

My argument is that he did not intentionally piledrive his head into the ice. He accidentally did it. Like I said, the difference between manslaughter and murder here regarding intent.

 

I've seen a million worse incidents by more famous players that did not turn out this badly. If you castrate and wish Bertuzzi never played another game, then you have to castrate and wish Messier was suspended every time he did something like this. Or any player, etc

 

The guy is sorry for what he did, and never played with the same mean power forward edge again. Lost millions in sponsorships, served his time and was irrevocably harmed by his own actions.

 

Moore never played again period and for that, he deserves some money. Just nowhere near what he is suing for since he was almost certainly not staying at NHL level. Predicting he "could" have been like his brother is farfetched given the difference in their talent, and predicting he "could" have become a first/second liner is outright laughable.

[Polaris922]

I'm convinced he was holding on to wind up for another punch and yeah, when skating forward if the guy right in front of you goes down, you are almost certainly going down too.

My argument is that he did not intentionally piledrive his head into the ice. He accidentally did it. Like I said, the difference between manslaughter and murder here regarding intent.

I've seen a million worse incidents by more famous players that did not turn out this badly. If you castrate and wish Bertuzzi never played another game, then you have to castrate and wish Messier was suspended every time he did something like this. Or any player, etc

The guy is sorry for what he did, and never played with the same mean power forward edge again. Lost millions in sponsorships, served his time and was irrevocably harmed by his own actions.

Moore never played again period and for that, he deserves some money. Just nowhere near what he is suing for since he was almost certainly not staying at NHL level. Predicting he "could" have been like his brother is farfetched given the difference in their talent, and predicting he "could" have become a first/second liner is outright laughable.

We'll continue to disagree about responsibility. As for murder vs manslaughter, thats why Bertuzzi didnt go to jail. He got his break.

Lawsuits are based on earnings potential. Nobody in this forum, as much as we like to think otherwise, can say what he would have earned. We can all guess, but the courts look at maximum potential not minimum.

The settlement is appropriate, and should've been done ten years ago.

[J0e Th0rnton]

We'll continue to disagree about responsibility. As for murder vs manslaughter, thats why Bertuzzi didnt go to jail. He got his break.

Lawsuits are based on earnings potential. Nobody in this forum, as much as we like to think otherwise, can say what he would have earned. We can all guess, but the courts look at maximum potential not minimum.

The settlement is appropriate, and should've been done ten years ago.

Would be nice to hear the amount. Could be low, could be high. Word is, parties not wanting "The code" and violence in hockey brought under a microscope are helping pay the bill, so Bertuzzi is not really losing as much personally as Bertuzzi haters would wish

[yave1964]

@J0e Th0rnton

Bertuzzi pled guilty, from there it was just a matter of how much Moore would receive in compensation. Frankly, I am glad it is over, I am tired of hearing about it, I am curious as to the exact dollar amount which will most certainly be leaked at some point,whatever Moore got he deserved. Both for the hit itself and the crappy way the league and the Canucks dealt with it.

[J0e Th0rnton]

@J0e Th0rnton

Bertuzzi pled guilty, from there it was just a matter of how much Moore would receive in compensation. Frankly, I am glad it is over, I am tired of hearing about it, I am curious as to the exact dollar amount which will most certainly be leaked at some point,whatever Moore got he deserved. Both for the hit itself and the crappy way the league and the Canucks dealt with it.

Maybe.

I doubt the amount will get leaked by any credible verifiable source. If they insisted on a full confidentiality agreement, a leak null and voids all payment and closes the case if they find out who leaked it.

 

In any case, the Canucks and the NHL wanted it to not go to court and have the violence put under the microscope and Bertuzzi looked like he wanted to fight it. Moore wanted it known to the world.

 

Some secret agreement was made with Crawford that we know of for covering costs if his name was left out of it. It is likely another agreement was made for covering costs, with the NHL, NHLPA and canucks to not have this go to court. or so speculate a lot of NHL beat reporters and bloggers on social media