ScottM Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I won't ask who the greatest player of all-time is since we probably all know who the nearly consensus answer would be, so who, in your opinion, is the second-greatest player in the history of the game and why? If you consider someone other than Gretzky to be the game's greatest player, tell us why. I'm going to go with Gordie Howe. He had a career that spanned 5 different decades, and is second in career goals. If you include WHA stats, he's #1 in career goals, ahead of even Gretzky. He played until age 52, whereas no one else has ever played past the age of 48. Even at that age, he averaged better than a half point per game, a number that many players can only dream of reaching in their primes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 @ScottMYou asked.....Robert Earl Clarke- Best faceoff guy *ever*- Most competitive, would do anything to win (AKA "dirtiest player ever")- 2nd greatest playmaker ever (name another center who had a drunk right winger score over 60 goals?!)- Changed the game: at a time when guys came to camp fat from drinking beer all summer, Clarke was swimming 10 miles a day and hitting the weights- Youngest Captain in the history of the game (until Lindros). Blame Lindros... -Captain of the best team ever put on ice: Team Canada 1976.I could go on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Hmmm....well, you probably got most people's #1 and #2 out of the way, so I'll tackle #3....and after much internal debate, I'm going Mario with a narrow edge over a certain Boston defenseman. Even though I didn't much care for his pouty threats to quit the NHL if the league allowed him to be clutched and grabbed...but the numbers don't lie, even in the live puck era of the mid 80s to early 90s.One of the most gifted players I'm old enough to have seen play, 2 Cups, scoring titles, MVPs and a comeback from cancer....which shouldn't really have a bearing on greatness on the ice, but it kinda does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 @ScottMYou asked.....Robert Earl Clarke- Best faceoff guy *ever*- Most competitive, would do anything to win (AKA "dirtiest player ever")- 2nd greatest playmaker ever (name another center who had a drunk right winger score over 60 goals?!)- Changed the game: at a time when guys came to camp fat from drinking beer all summer, Clarke was swimming 10 miles a day and hitting the weights- Youngest Captain in the history of the game (until Lindros). Blame Lindros... -Captain of the best team ever put on ice: Team Canada 1976.I could go on...I think it's the dirtiest player ever thing that kinda brings a tear to my eye, well stated podes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 and a comeback from cancer....which shouldn't really have a bearing on greatness on the ice, but it kinda does. It speaks volumes about passion the ability to overcome obstacles, which are parts of greatness. That would have been the end for almost anyone's career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 @ScottM It's so tough cause of the different era's and different positions, but I give Orr the edge over Gretzky. A lot of it has to do with skating. Wayne's speed was always underrated, I don't ever remember him getting caught from behind on a breakaway....but he did have that hunched over awkward skating style. Orr was just pure grace meshed with unrelenting power. His skating stride was and is the greatest thing to ever exist in pro sports. He generated jaw dropping power. Everytime he touched the puck, you got the feeling you were witnessing history live. His patented end to end rushes were simply beautiful. I loved the way he never seemed to plan a rush, he just let it evolve....each one it's own separate and distinct canvas on the ice. If I had to use one word to describe Orr, it would be magical. He had that awe inspiring skill and the vision to match. Orr was the greatest player to ever live. He paved the way for the guys like Wayne and Mario, took the game to levels previously unexplored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I think it's the dirtiest player ever thing that kinda brings a tear to my eye, well stated podes!Ack, it doesn't take much to make you cry buddy. Seriously though: my top all time list has guys whose PIMs pretty much equal their points. This is true of Clarke, Howe and Messier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 @jammer2 Had Orr's career been longer, I think he would likely be mentioned at least occasionally as the GOAT. As impressive as his numbers are, when you stop and remember that he played defense, they're mind-blowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 @ScottM We've had this discussion before. Give me 5 Bobby Orrs on a line and I'll beat your 5 anybodys any way you want to play the game. That's the difference between Orr and Gretzky. Orr can play the finesse game. He could play physical. He could play river hockey. He could punch your face in. He could skate with anyone. He could pass or score. Gretz comes 2nd IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 2nd greatest? Maybe Mario. Maybe Gretzky. Maybe Gordie. First greatest should be obvious then, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 2nd greatest? Maybe Mario. Maybe Gretzky. Maybe Gordie. First greatest should be obvious then, right? Yes, by all measurable statistics, it's Gretzky. If you don't agree with that, how else do you define and measure greatness? I understand there are intangible elements to 'greatness' and Gretzky absolutely had incredible intangible elements to his game. So did Orr. So did Mario. And Gordie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I have to say Bryan Trottier, but I agree with the era angle that people may ask. I started watching hockey in the earlier part of the 80's. I didn't really get it, but there always was a player that stood out to me and that was Trottier. After that, I would lean towards Mario Lemieux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 @Bertmega I used to argue, for the first few years anyway. that Trottier was better than Gretzky. I've always preferred the guy who could play everywhere. But I finally gave up when Gretzky started lapping guys in points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Yes, by all measurable statistics, it's Gretzky. If you don't agree with that, how else do you define and measure greatness? I understand there are intangible elements to 'greatness' and Gretzky absolutely had incredible intangible elements to his game. So did Orr. So did Mario. And Gordie. Like flyercanuck, I like the "clone wars" angle. 5 on 5 who wins? I think if you had a clone tournament between Gretzky, Orr, Mario, and Howe, Gretzky finishes fourth. Intangibles and hockey IQ only get you so far. Gretzky is the smallest, slowest, worst skater, with the weakest shot of the four. Orr finishes first, second would be a tough call between Howe and Mario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Shjon Podein. How'd we miss THAT?? Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Like flyercanuck, I like the "clone wars" angle. 5 on 5 who wins? I think if you had a clone tournament between Gretzky, Orr, Mario, and Howe, Gretzky finishes fourth. Intangibles and hockey IQ only get you so far. Gretzky is the smallest, slowest, worst skater, with the weakest shot of the four. Orr finishes first, second would be a tough call between Howe and Mario. Well, we could play the hypothetical game for the rest of our lives and never settle a darn thing! But, again, on all the most important measurable statistics, Gretzky is the greatest player of all time. It's really not debatable in that respect. If you want to have a debate on subjective elements, that's really a different conversation. Maybe the OP needs to clarify what he was looking for I wouldn't even take part in that kind of discussion because I wasn't around when Orr was playing. And I'm not a Gretzky guy either. I hated Gretzky when he played for how much he crushed the Flyers in so many important games. I'll never forget the night he played the Flyers when he needed to score 5 goals to be the first player to score 50 in 40 games. Well, he zigzagged through the O&B in their ridiculous cooperalls and scored 5 goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 @brelic - Well, if the question is who is the greatest according to the record book then sure, it's Gretzky. And I guess Howe would be second. Not much point in having a discussion about that though, is there? I only remember Howe from the end of his career so it's hard for me to judge him fairly. But I saw plenty of the other three and if I'm starting a team and have my pick of any player in his prime, I take Orr without a second thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 @brelic - Well, if the question is who is the greatest according to the record book then sure, it's Gretzky. And I guess Howe would be second. Not much point in having a discussion about that though, is there? I only remember Howe from the end of his career so it's hard for me to judge him fairly. But I saw plenty of the other three and if I'm starting a team and have my pick of any player in his prime, I take Orr without a second thought. Right, so we're no longer talking 'greatest' I can't comment on Howe or Orr because I never saw them play. And as dazzling as Gretzky was, I think I'd pick Mario in his prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Right, so we're no longer talking 'greatest' I think I'm still talking "greatest". How are you defining greatest? I'm defining it as the best hockey player I ever saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Shjon Podein Attaboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I think I'm still talking "greatest". How are you defining greatest? I'm defining it as the best hockey player I ever saw. Then I definitely have to go with Mario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 if we're going the 5 on 5 route, how great would in his prime eric lindros be ? He didn't have the longevity to his career to really be considered an all-time great, but there was a point in the late 90's when he was hands down the best player in the game by a lot. he was physical, fast, smart, had a hellacious shot. in the 5 on 5 tournament he'd be my dark horse . if he would have been able to sustain his level of play for 3 more years he's in this conversation. but i will back Orr, my stepdad and uncles had season tix to the flyers for 10 or so years from ( 71 to the early 80's) and used to fist fight over who would get the Boston tickets. they all say there's never been anyone like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 @mojo1917 Lindros is a tough call. He alone could take over a game. He was an absolute beast, but never could stay healthy. That is my problem with him. I think if there was a larger sample size and one that could be injury free maybe it would be a different story. I'd say with the sample size we have, he is at least a top 10 player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 @mojo1917 - Lindros would definitely be a wildcard candidate in the 5 on 5 competition. As long as they all kept their heads up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Oh, it's definitely subjective. Who in your opinion is the second-greatest player in history, and why, assuming Gretzky is #1 in your mind? If Gretzky isn't #1, who is, and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.