I know this is a crazy thought, but...

[King Knut]

What if Vinny doesn't suck so bad this year?

[DaGreatGazoo]

I'm hearing ya, King.  I still HATE the contract.  However, if he can stay healthy, that's a great big fat IF, but if he can-he could very easily pot 25-30 goals.  Heck, he put up 20 last year and has a "lousy" year.  

 

I would love to see him do well... 

[Bakanekimiwa]

What if Vinny doesn't suck so bad this year?

 

The whole situation is more than a bit awkward for the player and the Flyers. It was no secret they were unhappy and looking to unload. Vinny can't be happy knowing that and the Flyers can't be happy that he knows that ... because they failed to deal him. So, I would hope that Flyers mgmt has sat down with him and wiped the slate clean. It's a new year and it's to their mutual benefit that he has a good year. 

 

I was more of a Vinny apologist last year because I have always believed the Flyers mismanaged him from the beginning. He's a veteran who's played C his entire career and they stubbornly put him at W because they were shortsighted enough to sign another C when they really needed a W. That's not on the player. He was also clearly hobbled by a back injury for most of the season. 

 

He never complained, he worked through it all... and still had a 20 goal season. Maybe the signing was a bad one by Homer, but I'll never blame Vinny for it. He's been nothing but professional and I hope to see him have a great year. 

[doom88]

The whole situation is more than a bit awkward for the player and the Flyers. It was no secret they were unhappy and looking to unload. Vinny can't be happy knowing that and the Flyers can't be happy that he knows that ... because they failed to deal him. So, I would hope that Flyers mgmt has sat down with him and wiped the slate clean. It's a new year and it's to their mutual benefit that he has a good year.

I was more of a Vinny apologist last year because I have always believed the Flyers mismanaged him from the beginning. He's a veteran who's played C his entire career and they stubbornly put him at W because they were shortsighted enough to sign another C when they really needed a W. That's not on the player. He was also clearly hobbled by a back injury for most of the season.

He never complained, he worked through it all... and still had a 20 goal season. Maybe the signing was a bad one by Homer, but I'll never blame Vinny for it. He's been nothing but professional and I hope to see him have a great year.

This. Very reasonable approach, and I agree strongly.

[OccamsRazor]

What if Vinny doesn't suck so bad this year?

 

 

I've never hated the player myself....i just hated and still do his contract. But better production will help ease the pain. Winning cures everything.

[King Knut]

Yeah, that IF gets bigger if they keep trying to play him in front of the net.  He's got the coordination for tip ins, for sure, but I'd hesitate to put his body through that kind of abuse day in and day out.

 

However, if he can stay healthy, that's a great big fat IF,

[King Knut]

No, I know there's a lot of ire against the man, but I'm with you.  Clearly the guy was out of his element.

Also, Homer came to him and dropped more money on him with a longer deal than anyone else... what was he supposed to do?

 

All said and done, I'd just as soon have kept Gagne around last year, but that's not because Vinny's a bad person.

 

A decently healthy Vinny centering a 2nd or 3rd line should be pretty damn productive.  I love the Idea of BSchenn on the wing.  he seems to be doing okay with it so far.

 

I hope vinny does do well.

 

I'm just not sure I hope he does SO well that we can't even think about trading him at the deadline.  Though if my impressions of Hexy as GM are accurate, I'm not sure Vinny COULD do that well.

 

Then again, if VInny's got 30 goals by the deadline, you might as well keep him as his value will still be high in the off season at that point.

 

Now i"m just rambling

He never complained, he worked through it all... and still had a 20 goal season. Maybe the signing was a bad one by Homer, but I'll never blame Vinny for it. He's been nothing but professional and I hope to see him have a great year.

[Mad Dog]

@ Bakanekimiwa

 

I agree.  I have never had any strong feeling about him as a player during his days in Tampa.  He was a nice player (no doubt), maybe even bordering on stardom, based purely on production, but his inability or lack of interest to play defense was what separated him from an elite level in my mind.

 

But I am with you - based on his behavior and professionalism last season, I gained a certain degree of respect for the guy.  It wasn't easy to go through what he did last year.  It wasn't his fault at all that the Flyers didn't need him and he became a spare part.  I think at the very least, Berube owes him a fair chance.  I am not saying the team needs to go out of their way to accomodate him, but they do need to put him in a position where he is more likely to succeed.  If he is not going anywhere (which is what it looks like more and more), wouldn't that benefit both him *and* the Flyers?  There are still ways he can contribute, I think.  I think with some good coaching, there are ways to make this work for both sides... I really do.

[LegionOfDoom]

And this is what Berube did. He sat down with Vinney and had a very constructive talk with him. Vinney knows now what's expected of him being in shape wise and defensive responsibility wise. Berube is great in that sense, because he makes you feel wanted as a player, looks you in the eye and gives you no BS in giving you his assessment.

Hail to the Chief!

[jammer2]

@Bakanekimiwa   I understand where you're coming from Bak, but you left some key things out of your post. If outright floating and refusing to play defense is somehow deemed "professional" I don't know what to say. The guy dogged it, pure and simple. He got his pay day X2....bought out from Tampa and then signed for 4 years by the Flyers. In return we got a piss poor work ethic and a bunch of injuries. Not just any injuries mind you, but the reoccuring kind, his back will have him out for at least a few months next year, his back is shot, mark my words.

 

  I'm with you on the Flyers trying to turn him into a winger, that's on them....but the fact he barely makes an effort to backcheck, and is now our 3rd line center, who is supposed to take the majority of the defensive zone face offs.....that is a joke!!

 

 Metzler wrote "he disappears for weeks and even months at a time, and he was dead nuts right. He's a floater an a disgrace...he is the exact polar opposite of what "Flyerhockey" is supposed to be about. The team never did their homework on him, guys don't change their stripes suddenly when they are over 30...they regress, and I expect more of the same...I expect a piss poor work ethic, brutal defense and a waste of a roster spot.

[Bakanekimiwa]

@Bakanekimiwa   I understand where you're coming from Bak, but you left some key things out of your post. If outright floating and refusing to play defense is somehow deemed "professional" I don't know what to say. The guy dogged it, pure and simple. He got his pay day X2....bought out from Tampa and then signed for 4 years by the Flyers. In return we got a piss poor work ethic and a bunch of injuries. Not just any injuries mind you, but the reoccuring kind, his back will have him out for at least a few months next year, his back is shot, mark my words.

 

  I'm with you on the Flyers trying to turn him into a winger, that's on them....but the fact he barely makes an effort to backcheck, and is now our 3rd line center, who is supposed to take the majority of the defensive zone face offs.....that is a joke!!

 

 Metzler wrote "he disappears for weeks and even months at a time, and he was dead nuts right. He's a floater an a disgrace...he is the exact polar opposite of what "Flyerhockey" is supposed to be about. The team never did their homework on him, guys don't change their stripes suddenly when they are over 30...they regress, and I expect more of the same...I expect a piss poor work ethic, brutal defense and a waste of a roster spot.

 

Well... the knock on his D seems to be one that has followed him along with his career. It's fair criticism if you expect every player on your team to be a strong 2-way player. But this again goes back to the Flyers as well. That's the type of player he's been and that's who they signed. I guess we're really in this awkward situation because he was signed more for Lavvy's system. 

 

I'm just hoping that Vinny and the team can get on the same page this season... as it certainly does benefit both parties. If he can have a good 1st half and the Flyer's are looking on the outside of the playoff bubble, his chances of being dealt are much greater. 

 

I'd love to see me some playoff run overpayment for Vinny later in the season. 

[jammer2]

I'd love to see me some playoff run overpayment for Vinny later in the season.

 

  I would have scoffed at the remark a few years ago, but time after time, I seen contracts move that I thought were literally unmovable indeed get dealt, so now I say...anything is possible.

[Mad Dog]

@Bakanekimiwa   I understand where you're coming from Bak, but you left some key things out of your post. If outright floating and refusing to play defense is somehow deemed "professional" I don't know what to say.

 

OK, but that's nothing new, though.  He has played this way since he was drafted.  If he was playing exceptional D, came to the Flyers, and suddenly started showinig no desire to play D, I would say you have a legit case.  The way he played was known all along, yet the Flyers seemed to play no regard to this shortcoming in his game, no?

 

I don't think there is anybody in the Flyersland who doesn't want to see him gone.  And they tried very hard ot lose him this summer.  But since he is still here, for better or worse, the Flyers need to find a way to make it work.  It's not going to benefit anybody if they just openly try to stick it to him at his point.  In fact, it will hurt the Flyer more than it will hurt VLC. 

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

I agree that both parties have a mutual interest in making the most of the situation. I don't think VLC wants to end his career on the bench or sitting out big stretches though it may come to that. My biggest concern is the space he takes from others, and this camp's results highlight that point. Comcast can afford a bloated contract.  But time is a precious commodity and wasting someone's time in the A when they could be helping us out is what scares me.  I hope the guy can produce this year. 

 

Howie

[jammer2]

OK, but that's nothing new, though.  He has played this way since he was drafted.  If he was playing exceptional D, came to the Flyers, and suddenly started showinig no desire to play D, I would say you have a legit case.  The way he played was known all along, yet the Flyers seemed to play no regard to this shortcoming in his game, no?

 

I don't think there is anybody in the Flyersland who doesn't want to see him gone.  And they tried very hard ot lose him this summer.  But since he is still here, for better or worse, the Flyers need to find a way to make it work.  It's not going to benefit anybody if they just openly try to stick it to him at his point.  In fact, it will hurt the Flyer more than it will hurt VLC. 

 

 

 I don't think Vinny was quite as lazy in Tampa Bay, but I never seen him play of long stretches either. I think the Flyers thought they were getting someone a tad more reliable. After all, his numbers have declined for what.....4 straight years now? He took lazy (and injured) to new heights last year.....and I'm having trouble even remotely linking him to the word professional. If anything, this guy is a sell out....took the money and ran.

[aziz]

@Bakanekimiwa I understand where you're coming from Bak, but you left some key things out of your post. If outright floating and refusing to play defense is somehow deemed "professional" I don't know what to say. The guy dogged it, pure and simple.

Well, context. Lecavalier plays the same game a lot of elite offensive players play. Stamkos is not a backchecking monster. Patrick Kane is never the first guy back on a counter rush. These guys, their contribution is on one specific side of the puck, and they save themselves for that. Lecavalier is not a 90+ point guy anymore, but he learned to play the game when he was, he doesn't have the background or skillest to really contribute outside of that. Wish he did, wish he'd understand his new reality and adjust his game accordingly, but there it is. He is what his talents let him become, and that is pretty much the sum total is his game. A tough thing to find a spot for a 50 point forward who plays like he's scoring 90.

[jammer2]

@aziz  It just seems to take away from the team concept, having a guy get regular ice time that is not giving full effort. Just another reason to be glad Homer is not making key decisions anymore.