Brind'Amour - Revisiting the trade - combined thread

[pilldoc]

http://thehockeywriters.com/primeau-for-brindamour-revisiting-the-trade/

 

Saw this interesting article.  So how do you feel about this trade almost 14-15 years later?  Who, in your opinion won this trade?

 

For my I loved Brind'Amour.  He was made to wear the O&B.  The day I heard about this trade I was quite bummed.  I knew what we were getting in the for of Primeau, but I did not know how he was going to fit into the team at that time.  Of course that all changed on the faithful night in the epic battle in Pittsburgh.  Scoring that winning goal in the wee hours of the morning will go down in Flyers lore as one of those all-time goals.

 

I was happy Brind'Amour finally won the cup seveal years later.  To me Brind'Amour will always be a Flyer.

 

What are your thoughts...........

 

 

[radoran]

Why don't you just give me a nice paper cut and put lemon juice in it?

Carolina won the trade six ways from Sunday.

Brindy holding the Cup remains perhaps the happiest I have ever seen anyone be anywhere doing anything.

[King Knut]

I disagree on the trade.

Both teams won. Carolina got the cut but any presumption that it could have happened in Ohilly if that trade doesn't happen is ridiculous.

rod was finished in Philly. There wasn't a place for him. His heart wasn't in it and his game was falling off. He wasn't playing like the guy we loved.

Mostly I think because his leadership was suppressed. Lindros was too distracting. ROD should have been the C, not the side show attraction. Who knows about the wife thing -I doubt it, but it was obvious Rod didn't respect Eric much and hated playing for him. It took the life out of the guy. I would have expected more of him personally but incant blame him either.

Going south revitalized him. Gave him a team to lead (Willy helped).

Primeau on the other hand scored a ton, revitalized Recchi's career helped Gagne, discovered. Shutdown game and almost single handedly won the east for us in '04.

Imagine If he'd stayed healthy? Imagine Richards and Carter being taught how to lead by the guy from '04.

Even deal that Carolina ended up with the better end of, but let's face it. No cup if rod stays I n Philly.

Why don't you just give me a nice paper cut and put lemon juice in it?

Carolina won the trade six ways from Sunday.

Brindy holding the Cup remains perhaps the happiest I have ever seen anyone be anywhere doing anything.

[blocker]

Clarke was looking for a big center to replace Lindros.  Primeau was available, so Brind'Amour was spent to get him. 

 

When Hitchcock got to Philly, he made Primeau his horse.   It paid off sometimes, but other times, it wasted power plays for the Flyers. 

 

I think King Knut is right in that both teams gained in the trade. 

 

And, the slur against Kelly Brind'Amour is offensive. 

[OccamsRazor]

Brindy holding the Cup remains perhaps the happiest I have ever seen anyone be anywhere doing anything.

 

Yes i agree. Bitter sweet and me living down here in the Carolina's.........being a Flyers fan.........oh i'll stop there too much agony.....long before Richie and Carter ever hoisted one.

[jammer2]

  With all  due respect to Primeau and his amazing 04 run...Brindy was 10X the Flyer Primeau ever was. One goal, (as great as it was on the ice and historically) and one playoff run (again as great as that was) do not make a career. Give me Brindy any day.

[Vanflyer]

I was happy Brind'Amour finally won the cup seveal years later.  To me Brind'Amour will always be a Flyer.

 

It makes me absolutely furious to this day. Aside from his 1 mammoth playoff run, Primeau was nothing more than a third line checking center. There is the mutiny thing that he led too against barber (and though he might have been right, it still irks me the way it went down given that it was a season in which Barbers wife was dying of cancer). Primeau will always be a selfish player in my eyes- going all the way back to his Detroit days. 

 

Brindy was the consummate team player and true leader. At least he got a cup. One of Clarkes worse trades (he had a man crush with big tall centers- calling Chris Gratton). 

[Vanflyer]

rod was finished in Philly. There wasn't a place for him. His heart wasn't in it and his game was falling off. He wasn't playing like the guy we loved.

 

What a crock of horse crap. You are entitled to your opinion, but how is 74 points in 82 games in his last full season with the Flyers "falling off"? 

 

There are intangibles to Brindy's game that he did not have to be taught and knew instinctively. Primeau had to be horse whipped by Hitchcock to learn those things. 

 

While I doubt we would not have won the cup with Brindy, it had nothing to do with Brindy as a player or a leader, more with the make-up of the team. Carolina caught lightning in a bottle. They made a couple of shrewd deadline acquisitions and Cam Ward had a Cinderella playoff run.

 

All that given, I am happy that Brindy got a ring on a team that he led. I just would have preferred to see him be a lifetime Flyer instead of watching that selfish jackass Premeau skate for the O&B. I just have utter disdain for him.

[King Knut]

That crap never happened and we all know it.

Regardless though, Rod didn't like Eric much and certainly didn't like playing with him.

Maybe he was more upset with roger, or Clarke, but Lindros was at the heart if it.

Rod needed to be a leader and he was suppressed in that capacity while on Eric's team.

Clarke was looking for a big center to replace Lindros. Primeau was available, so Brind'Amour was spent to get him.

When Hitchcock got to Philly, he made Primeau his horse. It paid off sometimes, but other times, it wasted power plays for the Flyers.

I think King Knut is right in that both teams gained in the trade.

And, the slur against Kelly Brind'Amour is offensive.

[Vanflyer]

Clarke was looking for a big center to replace Lindros.  Primeau was available, so Brind'Amour was spent to get him. 

 

This is the biggest thing that irks me about Clarke. Considering he was a small forward, what was his man crush with big lumbering center-men? 

[King Knut]

He was banging his head against a wall. Getting traded was the best thing for him.

He was never going to be treated with the respect and given the responsibility he needed to thrive while he was here.

I don't know why, but it seemed fairly obvious to me at the time.

If you liked the guy, getting traded was the best thing for his career. Philly wasn't the place for him anymore. Blame Clarkie and Snider and possibly Neilson, but don't blame me for calling a spade a spade.

The very fact that he was traded in a season both he and Lindros were plagued with injuries and while Lindros was out on an extended injured reserve stint should tell is all where the team placed rod's value.

He was playing a thankless game here, there was obvious tension, statements were made to this effect as soon as he left... Leaving was the best thing for him. It was stifling him.

Staying wouldn't have gotten him any closer to a cup.

Primeau seemed to be the only player who responded to Hitch. Everyone else seemed to get worse and struggle mightily under him.

I still think of what a different coach with gagne, willy and rusty might have been able to do.

I'm far more upset about the departures of those eventual cup magnets than I was or am about Rod.

The team wasn't doing right by Rod. It wasn't going to get better. His career got a second life for the trade and I fully believe it wouldn't have happened here.

What a crock of horse crap. You are entitled to your opinion, but how is 74 points in 82 games in his last full season with the Flyers "falling off"?

There are intangibles to Brindy's game that he did not have to be taught and knew instinctively. Primeau had to be horse whipped by Hitchcock to learn those things.

While I doubt we would not have won the cup with Brindy, it had nothing to do with Brindy as a player or a leader, more with the make-up of the team. Carolina caught lightning in a bottle. They made a couple of shrewd deadline acquisitions and Cam Ward had a Cinderella playoff run.

All that given, I am happy that Brindy got a ring on a team that he led. I just would have preferred to see him be a lifetime Flyer instead of watching that selfish jackass Premeau skate for the O&B. I just have utter disdain for him.

[Vanflyer]

He was banging his head against a wall. Getting traded was the best thing for him.

He was never going to be treated with the respect and given the responsibility he needed to thrive while he was here.

 

Perhaps your right, but I just don't like Primeau as a player or an individual. While he did not sleep with my wife, there are off ice stuff friends have told me about (I know, blah blah blah), that some of has to stick to the wall. 

 

At the end of the day, I think Clarkes love affair with big centers combined with his venom towards Lindros is what sent Brindy packing. Nothing more, nothing less. 

 

Remove those two elements and Brindy does not go anywhere. 

[jammer2]

@Vanflyer  It not only the big lumbering centers he was in love with. After playing with one of the greatest ever, Clarkie somehow got the idea that the goalie was not important. That it was a patchwork situation where anyone could be thrown in and win the Cup....that was obviously not the case...as the long list of has beens throughout his tenure proved. 

 

  It went even deeper than that...Clarke loved the big lumbering d-men as well. When the rest of the league was realizing mobile defensemen win...he was signing Rathje and Hatcher...and in the process screwing this team for almost a decade.

[Vanflyer]

Clarke loved the big lumbering d-men as well. When the rest of the league was realizing mobile defensemen win...he was signing Rathje and Hatcher...and in the process screwing this team for almost a decade.

 

It amazes me how he kind of built the polar opposite of the teams, as a player, that he excelled with.

 

I have to add to that that I think that Lou Lamierello had allot to do with that. Unfortunately, Lou was 10x the GM that Clarke was. I hated the devils style, but it won. Clarke tried to combat that with bruising big centers- and it did not work. 

[AbelMorpheus]

Rod Brind'amour should've retired as a Philadelphia Flyer. This was another epic mistake made by the organization.

[King Knut]

He doesn't go anywhere but the flyers are a completely different team. From the mid 90's into the 2000's. Who knows for good or I'll.

What bad stories did you hear about Primeau off ice? Im curious. I've only heArd decent family man dedicated to his kids stories.

Perhaps your right, but I just don't like Primeau as a player or an individual. While he did not sleep with my wife, there are off ice stuff friends have told me about (I know, blah blah blah), that some of has to stick to the wall.

At the end of the day, I think Clarkes love affair with big centers combined with his venom towards Lindros is what sent Brindy packing. Nothing more, nothing less.

Remove those two elements and Brindy does not go anywhere.

[radoran]

Yes, both teams "got something out of it."

The Flyers almost made the Final.

Carolina won a Cup.

Advantage: Carolina.

By the very measure The Flyers Themselves use, Carolina won the trade.

[Vanflyer]

What bad stories did you hear about Primeau off ice? Im curious. I've only heArd decent family man dedicated to his kids stories.

 

Like I said, its hear say and for me to spread it would make me look "themaker". Its probably just a bunch of BS. But my opinion stands regarding my lament on the trade. 

[mojo1917]

Sad to me that Brind'Amour  didn't get to enjoy the fruits of the resurgence.

He was the only good player on some really bad Flyers teams.

The situation reminds me of baseball player Nick Markakis, he was the only major league player the Orioles had early in his career, now they finally have some depth in the organization and some really good players around him, he is getting to play some meaningful baseball for the team that gave him his shot.  It would have been nice to have had that happen for the Flyers and Brind'Amour although they didn't draft him.

 

I think the Lindro- Brindy personality conflict doomed that team though .  Big E wasn't mature enough to handle the city's intense spot light, and he was too proud to let another man be the leader of his team... too bad, that could have been a hell of a one two punch .

 

i was happy for Rod when he won the cup.  I always thought he was hard nosed but classy fella.

[Vanflyer]

 Big E wasn't mature enough to handle the city's intense spot light, and he was too proud to let another man be the leader of his team... too bad, that could have been a hell of a one two punch .

 

Interesting point, but at the time of the trade, Lindros was in the wings. I also think that Lindros was forced to be the leader / marquee moniker for the team. His demure was quiet. Its really and intricate story- had only Carl and Bonnie not effed up and just be happy their son mad it to the bigs (not just NHL, but Juniors as well). Add to that that Lindros never got off the teet. Truthfully, its a lesson on how NOT to be hockey parents regardless of how talented your child is. 

[fanaticV3.0]

I've always liked Hot Rod. I remember back when he was traded, Primeau was still thought of as someone who had potential to be a #1 center in the mold (not a replica, but in that general direction) of Lindros. He still had a rep for that type of potential. I was thrilled to get him. I thought we would be unstoppable with not one, but two of those types of centers. Ironically, Lindros and Primeau never played much together and we never got to see how that theory would pan out.

 

That being said, I was bummed to see Brindy go. I really liked him. I think everyone did. He could drive you nuts at times, but never so much that you didn't like him. He was a very good 2nd line center with a lot of heart and determination. Not the most talented guy in the world, but made up for it with his work ethic, fitness, and heart. Dude couldn't fight for sh!t either, but was totally willing to do it. Unlike Richards and Carter, I was happy for him when he won a Cup. I legitimately rooted for those Carolina teams.

 

Whoever said he needed to be traded, I agree. He hit his ceiling here. He was always in the shadow of Lindros. Plus, I think he actually became an even better player in Carolina. He was always a solid all-around player, but he won two Selke's and a Cup, and and couple of conference titles. He led those teams. As much as I loved him here, he never "led" us anywhere. He was always good, but he elevated his play in Carolina. That trade benefited him as much as it did Carolina.

 

I hated Primeau for what he and a few other guys did to Barber. Even if I did think Barber was a poor coach, that team was a disgrace. They scored 1 or 2 goals an entire series. It was pathetic and Barber was  made the scapegoat for it. I also really respect him for turning his game around here. I don't now if he came to the realization he was never going to be Lindros lite or what, but despite the drop in numbers, he turned into a really good defensive player here those last few years. I thought he really grew up here to be honest.

 

As far as who won the trade, I'm not a fan of the whole "they won a Cup, we didn't" rationale. This is thin logic that pretty much ignores the teams and focuses on the two individuals. I do think Brindy did more for them than Primeau did us, but not because of the Cup alone. 1 Cup, 2 Selke's, and 3 deep PO runs vs. 2 deep PO runs. Brindy's presence was obviously left a mark on the organization. It's why he coaches there now. It's why imo he's more a Cane than Flyer. He played here and was a Flyer for part of his career, but he is a Cane. 

[radoran]

Again, the "who won a Cup" is how The Flyers measure their success.

 

You heard it when Homer was leaving. You heard it when Hextall came on. You heard it when they blew up the team that failed to win against Chicago.

 

They don't measure "success" as "we almost got to a Final" or "if Leighton stopped that one shot..." - they measure it by who won the Cup.

 

Everything else is window dressing.

 

You can disagree with "the logic" but that's the cold, hard truth of the situation.

 

And it's The Flyers that say it.

[flyercanuck]

Again, the "who won a Cup" is how The Flyers measure their success.

 

You heard it when Homer was leaving. You heard it when Hextall came on. You heard it when they blew up the team that failed to win against Chicago.

 

They don't measure "success" as "we almost got to a Final" or "if Leighton stopped that one shot..." - they measure it by who won the Cup.

 

Everything else is window dressing.

 

You can disagree with "the logic" but that's the cold, hard truth of the situation.

 

And it's The Flyers that say it.

 

 

Ya but there was that ONE playoff run that Primeau had....legendary. That one run makes all his lameass seasons disappear. Actually, it makes him the greatest player of alltime...ISO.

[radoran]

Ya but there was that ONE playoff run that Primeau had....legendary. That one run makes all his lameass seasons disappear. Actually, it makes him the greatest player of alltime...ISO.

(Fixed it for you)

[Mad Dog]

@Vanflyer  It not only the big lumbering centers he was in love with. After playing with one of the greatest ever, Clarkie somehow got the idea that the goalie was not important. That it was a patchwork situation where anyone could be thrown in and win the Cup....that was obviously not the case...as the long list of has beens throughout his tenure proved. 

 

  It went even deeper than that...Clarke loved the big lumbering d-men as well. When the rest of the league was realizing mobile defensemen win...he was signing Rathje and Hatcher...and in the process screwing this team for almost a decade.

 

Exactly right.  It feels almost a century since Clarke left the team, but I swear the ghost of his unimaginable incompetence as a GM still hangs over the franchise. Homer really had a helluva mentor, so why should we even be surprises that Homer took this team nowhere.  It's almost like Clarke was setting the example of how *not* to build a successful team...