Why Do We Trust Hextall?

[King Knut]

Why do we trust that he gets it?

 

He watched Lombardi?

He traded a crappy 5 year contract on an aging star for a slightly less crappy 3 year contract on a complete waste of a lineup spot?

 

Okay, Del Zotto was a good idea that hasn't been a disaster.

 

I want Hexy to be a brainy smart genius GM who isn't a complete Moron (ahem Homer).  But why do we all assume he knows what to do?

 

Are the kids (the ones who aren't catastrophically injured) learning in the AHL?  What are they learning?  From whom are they learning it?  Should we trust that?

 

Does Berube still have a job for any reason other than being a good 'ole boy and it looking really bad to fire a coach two seasons in a row?

 

Does Berube have complete autonomy?  Can Hextall insist that guys get benched?  Do any of these guys have two way contracts? 

 

Why isn't he bothering to pull the trigger on trades involving Coburn and Luke Schenn if the season is already being accepted as a wash?  And I think we can all admit it seriously looks like management and coaching staffs and players are ALL accepting this season as a wash.

 

Last year they lost the first 7 games and Giroux promised the playoffs.  Well now they've lost as many in a row and Giroux is silent.  They know they're not doing anything?  How is that?  What happened? 

 

Seriously... what is going on with this team and its management?  It's screwy isn't it?  I mean it's really weird to me. 

 

Are they intentionally throwing the season for draft positioning?  You have to assume there are at least three players worth it with the lottery system in place because after the Patrick Kane season, there are no guarantees that your team sucking so utterly and absolutely will get you anything in this league unless you're name is Mario Lemieux. 

 

 

[brelic]

Why do we trust that he gets it?

 

He watched Lombardi?

He traded a crappy 5 year contract on an aging star for a slightly less crappy 3 year contract on a complete waste of a lineup spot?

 

Okay, Del Zotto was a good idea that hasn't been a disaster.

 

I want Hexy to be a brainy smart genius GM who isn't a complete Moron (ahem Homer).  But why do we all assume he knows what to do?

 

Are the kids (the ones who aren't catastrophically injured) learning in the AHL?  What are they learning?  From whom are they learning it?  Should we trust that?

 

Does Berube still have a job for any reason other than being a good 'ole boy and it looking really bad to fire a coach two seasons in a row?

 

Does Berube have complete autonomy?  Can Hextall insist that guys get benched?  Do any of these guys have two way contracts? 

 

Why isn't he bothering to pull the trigger on trades involving Coburn and Luke Schenn if the season is already being accepted as a wash?  And I think we can all admit it seriously looks like management and coaching staffs and players are ALL accepting this season as a wash.

 

Last year they lost the first 7 games and Giroux promised the playoffs.  Well now they've lost as many in a row and Giroux is silent.  They know they're not doing anything?  How is that?  What happened? 

 

Seriously... what is going on with this team and its management?  It's screwy isn't it?  I mean it's really weird to me. 

 

Are they intentionally throwing the season for draft positioning?  You have to assume there are at least three players worth it with the lottery system in place because after the Patrick Kane season, there are no guarantees that your team sucking so utterly and absolutely will get you anything in this league unless you're name is Mario Lemieux. 

 

Honest question - this was a bubble playoff team last year. Over the summer, their roster got weaker (Timonen and Hartnell are gone).

 

What were your expectations for this year?

[Bakanekimiwa]

I think it's because we kinda have to. I mean, if we don't have faith in Hexy... at this point, we really having nothing to be hopeful about. He hasn't done much, but I guess it is worrying that his only real move was the Crapberger trade which is looking worse and worse by the day. 

[ruxpin]

I think it's because we kinda have to. I mean, if we don't have faith in Hexy... at this point, we really having nothing to be hopeful about. He hasn't done much, but I guess it is worrying that his only real move was the Crapberger trade which is looking worse and worse by the day. 

 

Pretty much exactly where I was going to go.

[fanaticV3.0]

Our coach has been here a year and the GM six months and there are certain folk who already want them both gone. People like to say Flyers fans are smart, that they know hockey. I question that line of thinking.

[King Knut]

Two things: 

 

A)  You make excellent points about losing Timmo and Hartsy hurting the team, but one would expect that would lead to them getting edged here and there.  I'm not referring to just their record (though that's bad enough) I'm referring to how they look out there and they look ridiculously bad.  Like worse than amateurs.  I believe an AHL team would compete against the rangers and redwings better than these jokers did.  They just looked lost and adrift on a stormy sea out there.

 

and

 

B)  They were technically a bubble team last year but mostly due to the poor start. If you look at their record, for most of the rest of the year they were almost dominant.  If they'd been just .500 in that first 8 games, they'd have had 100 points and been second in the Metro.

 

After October, their month by month pct. (and I go by points) was:

 

Nov:  .692

Dec:  .667

Jan:  .460

Feb:  .800

Mar:  .750

April: .500

 

Two mediocre (but not disastrous) months and 4 really really good months.  They didn't have a full season of 'meh this is a bubble team'.  After they shook off whatever the hell was going on in their .272 October, they had some mediocre runs, but they were by and large a very winning team.  And down the stretch they were skating well with the best in the league, not just the Hurricanes and Panthers.

 

They now look every bit as lost and confused as the  did last October when things were so utterly atrocious and Mike Richards was sending Suicide prevention texts to Giroux.

 

Now Richards apparently needs to call his own sponsor or something and Giroux is working his butt off, but it truly doesn't matter because the other 4 lines and anyone on Defense not names Streit (and sometimes DelZotto) look like they've never played organized hockey before.

 

I'm sorry, Something is really off with this team.  I don't know what it is.  It's fishy.  It's really really fishy.  I can't say definitively that Berube is the problem because he certainly didn't hinder them last year.  But right now they look exactly the same as they did before he got to town.

 

I'll go back to it.  The turning point of this season was Berube's 5 day mini camp.  They looked half decent before that and they have looked like complete fools since.  I have no explanation for that. 

 

 

 

 

What were your expectations for this year?

[ruxpin]

Why do we trust that he gets it?

 

He watched Lombardi?  Made pretty damn good coffee, too, from what I hear.

He traded a crappy 5 year contract on an aging star for a slightly less crappy 3 year contract on a complete waste of a lineup spot?  I'm sure this went worse than he expected.  I don't think many of us expected much more, though.  This year and next year are a wash.  I think this trade, in particular, made that clear.  He'll probably be bought out after this season.

 

Okay, Del Zotto was a good idea that hasn't been a disaster.  

 

I want Hexy to be a brainy smart genius GM who isn't a complete Moron (ahem Homer).  But why do we all assume he knows what to do?  I personally don't assume. I'm in "hope" mode.

 

Are the kids (the ones who aren't catastrophically injured) learning in the AHL?  What are they learning?  From whom are they learning it?  Should we trust that?  We are against the cap.  Where are we going to put the kids?  The huge contracts aren't just horrible contracts.  They're on horrible players that aren't going anywhere.  So, without them going anywhere, there's not really any cap room for the kids.  As to what they're learning, it may be more important what they are NOT learning:  how to be a complete loser on a junk heap of a team.  Those that got hurt didn't get hurt because they were in the A or the CHL.  They got hurt playing hockey.  It happens.

 

Does Berube still have a job for any reason other than being a good 'ole boy and it looking really bad to fire a coach two seasons in a row?  I think it's coming, but what purpose does it serve?  With the garbage construction of the team, it's just as well to wait until the end of the year and start fresh next year.

 

Does Berube have complete autonomy?  Fair question.  Since it's his job on the line, I'm hoping he has the say on who plays, where they play, how much they play, and who doesn't.  Can Hextall insist that guys get benched?  Another fair question.  I would venture to guess he speaks his opinion on who shouldn't ($$$) get benched.  Do any of these guys have two way contracts? Probably very few.  At least not the players that a two-way contract would help with (L. Schenn, Vinny, Crapburger)

 

Why isn't he bothering to pull the trigger on trades involving Coburn (fair question, but his current value has to be at an all time low) and Luke Schenn (for who? for what?  You don't really think anyone is lining up for Luke Schenn, do you? Even national radio today was saying what a disaster he is) if the season is already being accepted as a wash?  And I think we can all admit it seriously looks like management and coaching staffs and players are ALL accepting this season as a wash.

 

Last year they lost the first 7 games and Giroux promised the playoffs.  Well now they've lost as many in a row and Giroux is silent.  They know they're not doing anything?  How is that?  What happened? No veteran leadership.  Really lousy players.  Giroux knows it.  I think they all do, despite the fact they keep saying incredibly stupid and unbelievable stuff like "we have a good team."  Is anyone really buying that?

 

Seriously... what is going on with this team and its management?  It's screwy isn't it?  I mean it's really weird to me. 

 

Are they intentionally throwing the season for draft positioning?  You have to assume there are at least three players worth it with the lottery system in place because after the Patrick Kane season, there are no guarantees that your team sucking so utterly and absolutely will get you anything in this league unless you're name is Mario Lemieux. 

[fanaticV3.0]

Honest question - this was a bubble playoff team last year. Over the summer, their roster got weaker (Timonen and Hartnell are gone).

 

What were your expectations for this year?

 

Another bubble team to be honest. They lost those two players, but Voracek and Schenn are noticeably better than last year, Simmonds is on pace for roughly the same amount of points as last year (and that was a breakout season), Del Zotto is better than any young defenseman we've had in ages, G could hit 100 points (or close to it). Despite their record, there is a lot better about these individuals this year. They're just a worse team.

[ruxpin]

Another bubble team to be honest. They lost those two players, but Voracek and Schenn are noticeably better than last year, Simmonds is on pace for roughly the same amount of points as last year (and that was a breakout season), Del Zotto is better than any young defenseman we've had in ages, G could hit 100 points (or close to it). Despite their record, there is a lot better about these individuals this year. They're just a worse team.

 

Bingo.  You talked about veteran leadership a couple weeks ago (or lack of).  I think it was in reference to Hartnell and Timonen and compared it to lack of a Geurin-type. (or...gasp...Jagr).  

 

I really think that's a huge part of it.  Clearly, we have players that are simply done (Vinny & Umberger).  And we have players that never were (L. Schenn).  And players who are on sabbatical (Read).   But there's no veteran leaders to help pull them up by their bootstraps.   It's glaringly missing.

[pilldoc]

It goes back to the veteran leadership question again....I have seen this menitoned in so many posts.  It truly is a recurring theme and add to the mix coach who, in many poster's opinion's, mine included, has no real scheme.  Throw in a bunch of bad contracts attached to players who just flat are useless to this team (see LeCADAVERlie, Vinny and Corspseberger, RJ) along with an AHL type defense...... well you just get a reciepe for disaster which we are now witnessing. 

 

Now the million dollar quesiton...how does this all get fixed in the Salary Cap Era?????

[pilldoc]

Bingo.  You talked about veteran leadership a couple weeks ago (or lack of).

 

I really think that's a huge part of it.

 

But there's no veteran leaders to help pull them up by their bootstraps.  

 

It's glaringly missing.

 

This ^^ I think, as I posted below, lies a vast majority of why this team is the way it is.........

 

It is the reoccuring theme I keep seeing everyone post........

 

Fix this by getting some quality veteran leadership and then things will slowly begin to righten themselves.........hopefully.

[FD19372]

Why do we trust Hextall? We trust he can't be as monumentally clueless as Holmgren. It's called consider your alternative.

[fanaticV3.0]

Bingo.  You talked about veteran leadership a couple weeks ago (or lack of).  I think it was in reference to Hartnell and Timonen and compared it to lack of a Geurin-type. (or...gasp...Jagr).  

 

I really think that's a huge part of it.  Clearly, we have players that are simply done (Vinny & Umberger).  And we have players that never were (L. Schenn).  And players who are on sabbatical (Read).   But there's no veteran leaders to help pull them up by their bootstraps.   It's glaringly missing.

 

It always baffles me when a guy hits a wall as fast and hard as Umberger has. From 18 goals to (on pace) 3 is beyond description. At least with Vinny you can a drop the last several years. And he's what 32? How are you done at 32? I do agree with you on the guys who are done, never were, or MIA though. Completely.

 

I really do believe they have a nice core and with a couple of legit vets, and hopefully a few of our prospects, they can be a lot better. I just hope they don't do something stupid in the meantime.

[brelic]

I really do believe they have a nice core and with a couple of legit vets, and hopefully a few of our prospects, they can be a lot better. I just hope they don't do something stupid in the meantime.

 

Totally agree. 

 

Really, it's not like this team has to do a lot to make it better. It's just patience and the right vet or two.

 

None of our core guys are in their prime yet, so it's like we get a free upgrade every year (assuming they continue their growth of course) as they mature, develop new skills, and become veterans. G will be 27 next year - he is our captain and vet. He's our Getzlaf or Toews or Crosby. Players have to rally around him, and in turn hopefully he continues his growth as a player and a leader.

 

If that happens, the others will follow. We see it with Voracek and Del Zotto this year, who have taken big steps in maturing. I would say Mason is the same - he's been pretty consistent albeit completely unsupported. 

 

On defense, the contracts are coming up this year and next - so all is not lost. It's frustrating to have to sit through two seasons of that (and I'm not sure if Hextall will have the stomach for it), but even by next season, we should have one of the youngins in the lineup, and at least another one the year after. You might be able to add two more the following year, so that in 3 years from now, you'd have Streit (in his last season), Del Zotto, Ghost, Hagg, Morin, and Sanheim. That's a heckuva lot of speed. 

[briere48]

do i trust hextall? i dont know but i have a bad feeling that this homer 2.0 because he's refusing to get rid of contracts, make changes at the coaching position, bring up young players that might play better than them. i think he wants to keep the old players win championship mentality, that's why he's not making changes, if he doesnt do it in the summer then we know we are stuck with another bad gm, no one wants to hear that but snider doesnt give a crap about winning.

 

we may never see a championship until a new owner with a winning mentality comes in, that's the reality of it.

[fanaticV3.0]

Totally agree. 

 

Really, it's not like this team has to do a lot to make it better. It's just patience and the right vet or two.

 

None of our core guys are in their prime yet, so it's like we get a free upgrade every year (assuming they continue their growth of course) as they mature, develop new skills, and become veterans. G will be 27 next year - he is our captain and vet. He's our Getzlaf or Toews or Crosby. Players have to rally around him, and in turn hopefully he continues his growth as a player and a leader.

 

If that happens, the others will follow. We see it with Voracek and Del Zotto this year, who have taken big steps in maturing. I would say Mason is the same - he's been pretty consistent albeit completely unsupported. 

 

On defense, the contracts are coming up this year and next - so all is not lost. It's frustrating to have to sit through two seasons of that (and I'm not sure if Hextall will have the stomach for it), but even by next season, we should have one of the youngins in the lineup, and at least another one the year after. You might be able to add two more the following year, so that in 3 years from now, you'd have Streit (in his last season), Del Zotto, Ghost, Hagg, Morin, and Sanheim. That's a heckuva lot of speed. 

 

As bad as they look as a team right now, I really do like the core quite a bit. We've had this conversation a few times before and I agree with you Del Zotto and Mason should be a part of the core. The more I've been paying attention, the more I like them both.

 

I also agree with you that if you add 1-2 legit, stone-cold mortal lock, tried and true veterans, with a couple of the kids in the system, and you have a good team. Personally, I'm very eager for Morin. I don't think it's unreasonable to think they could contend inside 2 years if these things pan out.

[ruxpin]

Fix this by getting some quality veteran leadership and then things will slowly begin to righten themselves.........hopefully.

 

How does this work though?  I mean, it seems simple enough on its face, but I don't think it's that easy.  First, you need to be able to trade something for it.   We ain't got nothing, and what we do have (prospects/picks) I don't want to part with.  And unless we jettison some of our hideous contracts, we don't have the cap space to do it through free agency.

 

Secondly, if you do bring someone in from the outside--particularly via trade--do they immediately gain any credibility to be able to provide that leadership?  I think there's a history of being able to bring someone in via free agency and have them go through camp, etc., and have that (Jagr, Smith, Forsberg, Hatcher), but I don't think this gets done via trade.  Not during the season, anyway.

 

So, we know what we lack.  Fixing that is the trick.

[Bakanekimiwa]

Our coach has been here a year and the GM six months and there are certain folk who already want them both gone. People like to say Flyers fans are smart, that they know hockey. I question that line of thinking.

 

I haven't heard of anyone calling for Hexy's head yet... not saying it hasn't happened, I'm sure it has but that would have to be an extreme outlier. Now as to Berube, the chant is getting louder and louder and for good reason. 

 

We've hashed and re-hashed what it is we think Berube is doing here, but I think it's pretty clear to anyone that our team should be better than they are. They never were gonna compete for the Stanley, but we also shouldn't expect them to be competing for the bottom at this point either. They should be better and they're not. 

 

Blame the players, sure there is plenty to go around, but I do think it's time for Berube to be questioned greatly. I don't see a magic fix with a new coach and I don't have a suggestion for a replacement, but I'd sure hope that Hexy has been thinking about his options as far as the coaching staff goes as well. 

 

#30 in PK and PP is falling rapidly. 5v5 we can't score. Numerous too many men calls... and no discernible plan of zone entry or defensive zone entries... tell me who's to blame for that? Sure, the players are out there, but I don't like the looks of cluelessness that are going on and they seem to indicate that not everyone's on the same page. 

 

We have a bunch of individuals out there trying to make things happen on their own. If that's not an indictment of the coach, I guess I just don't know what is. 

[ruxpin]

It always baffles me when a guy hits a wall as fast and hard as Umberger has. From 18 goals to (on pace) 3 is beyond description

 

The thing with Umberger is that he only had 4g and 1a after February 1 (20 games) last year, so he was likely already "dying."  The dude is done.

 

On the other hand, the 20 game total projects to 16g 4a, so it's still better than what he's doing now.

[radoran]

How does this work though?  I mean, it seems simple enough on its face, but I don't think it's that easy.  First, you need to be able to trade something for it.   We ain't got nothing, and what we do have (prospects/picks) I don't want to part with.  And unless we jettison some of our hideous contracts, we don't have the cap space to do it through free agency.

 

Secondly, if you do bring someone in from the outside--particularly via trade--do they immediately gain any credibility to be able to provide that leadership?  I think there's a history of being able to bring someone in via free agency and have them go through camp, etc., and have that (Jagr, Smith, Forsberg, Hatcher), but I don't think this gets done via trade.  Not during the season, anyway.

 

So, we know what we lack.  Fixing that is the trick.

 

Have to just believe that this season is a wash. Let it go and move on. Don't make major moves trying to save this year.

 

Buy out Bumburglar and Lecadaver. That opens up about $4.5M or so in cap space. There's a solid 20/50 guy - preferably a vet with some success under his belt. Justin Williams? ()

 

Ship out one of MacDud, Coburn, LSchenn, Grossmann. Or two if you like. Three, I'd be good with. Heck, there's no need for any of them, really.

 

How about going after a Boychuck (if he doesn't sign on the Island)? 30. UFA. On at $3.3M on the cap rightnow. Yes, less than any of the guys mentioned above. #homercoaster™

 

Paul Martin? Marc Staal? Beauchemin???? - yes, seriously spitballing here...

 

Thing is, there are options available.

 

(PS, holy crap, Scottie Upshall is 31. I am O-L-D)

[ruxpin]

Ship out one of MacDud, Coburn, LSchenn, Grossmann. Or two if you like. Three, I'd be good with. Heck, there's no need for any of them, really.

 

Here's where I am hung up on this plan, though, rad.  Yes, it looks great.  I wouldn't lose any sleep at losing [sic] any of them.  But I have a feeling it might not be that easy.

 

Of the group, Coburn is probably the most movable but he's making this increasingly harder with each passing game because he's playing like Vandermeer.  

 

MacDonald is not good enough to be a top pair Dman but paid too much to be a 2nd pair (where ideally he belongs--and probably the "other" guy on the the 2nd pair).  So maybe someone takes a risk, but I think we're on the hook for some of his salary. If we can get a 6th rounder for him, I'm game (sadly, that's a 2nd and a 3rd for a 6th).

 

Luke Schenn ain't going anywhere.  I don't think you're going to get a taker.  Stranger things have happened and maybe someone is so injury-depleted at the trade deadline that they're desperate enough to hope a "change of scenery" will work.  But the guy flat out blows and everyone in hockey knows it.

 

You might get a 7th rounder for Grossman and "future considerations" (God, I love him.  Good player) at the deadline, again with a desperate trading partner (not as desperate as for Schenn).  

 

I suspect, though, that you're dealing Coburn & MacDonald and getting left holding Schenn & Grossman.  Capwise, that's fine.  Hockeywise, I'd rather it the opposite way.

[radoran]

I suspect, though, that you're dealing Coburn & MacDonald and getting left holding Schenn & Grossman. Capwise, that's fine. Hockeywise, I'd rather it the opposite way.

 

Beggars can't be choosers, or so it is said.

 

Point is, getting rid of one of them opens up the ability to replace them with an actual, honest-to-God NHL player.

 

And I don't really think you need to get much of anything back (a 6th is basically not much of anything).

 

Retain a bit of salary, sure.

 

It's not an impossible burden - as long as you're willing to admit that this season is a lost cause at this point.

 

Now there's a change in perspective for you.

[murraycraven]

Our coach has been here a year and the GM six months and there are certain folk who already want them both gone. People like to say Flyers fans are smart, that they know hockey. I question that line of thinking.

 

I think it is fair to say that Hexy needs a little more time than 6 months to unravel Homers mess.   If he would be judged by only the RJ move it would be a bit unfair honestly.   And I hated this move from day #1.

 

I am not sure Berube is the solution  but have come around to the notion that right now is not the time for him to be fired.  If he is fired over the roadtrip I wont shed any tears for sure but this team is just bad.  I am willing to let him keep his job and see how it shakes out for now...

[radoran]

I think it is fair to say that Hexy needs a little more time than 6 months to unravel Homers mess.   If he would be judged by only the RJ move it would be a bit unfair honestly.   And I hated this move from day #1.

 

I am not sure Berube is the solution  but have come around to the notion that right now is not the time for him to be fired.  If he is fired over the roadtrip I wont shed any tears for sure but this team is just bad.  I am willing to let him keep his job and see how it shakes out for now...

 

My only real "problem" with the "not Berube's fault" bandwagon is that it isn't like Craig is some neophyte who just wandered into this situation and didn't realize what he was getting into.

 

Berube's been "coaching" in the organization since 2006.

 

He was "power play coach" under Laviolette - the same power play that still looks like a monkey humping a football under him as head coach.

 

To be clear, I don't see a better alternative and don't believe making a change rightnow would result in very much different at all.

 

But a better question than the thread title, perhaps? - Why do we trust Berube?

[pilldoc]

How does this work though?  I mean, it seems simple enough on its face, but I don't think it's that easy.  First, you need to be able to trade something for it.   We ain't got nothing, and what we do have (prospects/picks) I don't want to part with.  And unless we jettison some of our hideous contracts, we don't have the cap space to do it through free agency.

 

Secondly, if you do bring someone in from the outside--particularly via trade--do they immediately gain any credibility to be able to provide that leadership?  I think there's a history of being able to bring someone in via free agency and have them go through camp, etc., and have that (Jagr, Smith, Forsberg, Hatcher), but I don't think this gets done via trade.  Not during the season, anyway.

 

So, we know what we lack.  Fixing that is the trick.

 

Rux, I know..sounds simple, but you are right..it is not an easy fix.    I do get your point though and I totally agree.