radoran Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 they looked competitive but again it was the Sharks. At this point I will take what I can get as far as good hockey goes but I am not sure who is in worse shape - the Sharks or the Flyers? The Flyers are not as bad as they have been playing but something is going on with the team right now - coaching, locker room issues, etc... they are talented enough to play much better hockey but as long as they keep up with the one dimensional scoring threat they have a chance at a very good pick. Short term, Sharks are essentially tied for the eighth spot in the West. Flyers are seven points out of a guaranteed spot and 10 points out of the wild card. Long term, they are on the other side of the hill that the Flyers are starting to climb. Their "Giroux and Voracek" (if we want to compare Thornton/Marleau, for example) are on the way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Well, it's been clinically proven to bruise their ovaries. Yeah and we can't have that. If they are this pissy without an irritated ******, I don't even want to deal with them if they were to injure it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Because really, in the last nearly 20 years... Since the Rangers'Cup that a mop with a hat should have won... What has he done that DIDN'T make him look like a clown or turn his team du jour into a circus? He lost more hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 I think we're just nostalgic for a tough ass no nonsense pain in the butt to whip these soft puppies into shape and make them love him and want to die out in the ice for him if necessary... But I don't think anyone really expects it or probably really wants it. What im thinkin right now is that we need a strategist in Allentown training these young d men how to play solid positioned defense and transition games. I the NHL since we're stuck with ridiculous contracts of God awful players, we need a kitchen sink desperation motivational guy who will squeeze any ounce of life out of these useless sacks he can. A system won't matter. They can't execute it. They just need guts and desire and motivation. Maybe it's a good time to appease a still bitter Fan Base and accommodate the internal need for incestuous hiring and see if Carolina's assistant coach and head of player development is interested in being a head coach for three years. That guy sure knows a thing or two about getting a second life out of over the hill hockey players. agreed... I hope the Keenan thing is a joke. no thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 1) Highest paid team in the league2) Third to worst team in the league3) Attendance is steady though, 4th highest in the league (higher than the hockey mecca Tronno) That tells you how rabid and loyal this fan base is. McDavid would be great, but losing just to get him is unacceptable. No one on the Flyers squad is going to buy into a losing mentality to get a generational talent. So let's get that logic out of our heads. Now we need to focus on how such collective group of talent is crapping the bed on a nightly basis. The forwards are basically the same, sans Hartnell and a few others. I don't think they were the glue that was holding this team together either. So why can't they score? Why is Jake Voracek the only player on this team that looks like he gives a damn? These are things that need to be asked when assessing the coaching staff:1) Are player being used properly? 2) Are they being used in a manner that would have them succeed or fail? 3) Are the right players being held accountable?4) Are they in game shape and prepared to take on their opponent? 5) Are they motivated both on and off the ice If the answer is no to more than half of these questions, then the coach needs to go. I will admit that I think that Berube is a good coach, but not for this team. This team has Lavy's fingerprints all over it and I suspect that is why he was nixed after three games last year. What they need (insert cliche) is a players coach. One that can spot, motivate and develop the younger talent. They need this guy to maintain and develop the core. While we can all admit this team is not a Stanley Cup team, they can/should be at least, at a minimum, hungry and competitive each night. If they finish dead last, but gave it their all, then we should be happy as a fan base. If they look like a reincarnation of the 2007 squad, regardless of where they finish, fans should stop attending. Hit Ed's wallet in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 What im thinkin right now is that we need a strategist in Allentown training these young d men how to play solid positioned defense and transition games. I think that's exactly what Terry Murray is known for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 Uh Oh... he's on to me! I think that's exactly what Terry Murray is known for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I think that's exactly what Terry Murray is known for. Time to bring out the old deck chairs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent05 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Flyers got eight years of Coburn and gave up, essentially, Freddy Meyer for it.Yes they got eight years but how many were actually good? I'll say 4 years, the other 4 have been disappointing, frustrating and now he's proving that he flat out stinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent05 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Nah,coburn's been too good for too long here. I disagree with your statement. Not sure if we are watching the same Coburn. Only time I ever see him good is when he was paired with Timonen. Timonen really covered his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishjim Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 @Irishjim "look the seasons lost..dream of mcdavid in orange and black...you'll sleep better at night" When did you become a Penguins fan? when i watched them tank twice and get the best player in the planet at that time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I disagree with your statement. Not sure if we are watching the same Coburn. Only time I ever see him good is when he was paired with Timonen. Timonen really covered his ass. I've said very similar myself. Honestly, though, I think he's a 2nd pairing defenseman playing over his head. I've said similar about MacDonald, but I really do think it is the case for Coburn as well. It may also be a case where a change of scenery is in order. I wonder if Danny Heatley's car has a back seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent05 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I wonder if Danny Heatley's car has a back seat.Let's pitch in and get him a minivan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 when i watched them tank twice and get the best player in the planet at that time Ha ha, then yes I think you are on to something.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Yes they got eight years but how many were actually good? I'll say 4 years, the other 4 have been disappointing, frustrating and now he's proving that he flat out stinks. Fine, but that's still four good seasons for an asset that they got for Freddy Meyer. Zhitnik played all of 31 games here. Meyer hasn't played hockey since 2011-12 with Modo in the SEL. I still don't believe the Waddell looked at the situation and said to himself: "Self," he said, "I've got a guy I drafted eighth overall and who is gonna have four pretty good seasons ahead of him, but eight years from now he'll fall off a cliff, so I'm trading him now for a guy who'll play 83 games for me." YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 He needs a pairing he can work with OR he needs to be coached into the pairing he's got.We've known since 2008 or so that Coburn without Timmo isn't as effective. When Homer got Pronger it didn't matter.Since Pronger went down we've had three years now to try to get Coburn working well with someone else or to find someone else Coburn can work well with. HOWEVER. One thing I can say for certain is that if you know Coburn works best with Timmo and worse without him, then putting him on a line with Schultz isn't a bright idea. Damn Homer and his wet dreams of Suter and Parise that forced Carle to take an offer elsewhere. Carle looked horrible his first year here... then pairing him with Pronger changed his life and that stuck a bit after Pronger went down.But it's easier to pair Carle with a Stay at home guy than it is to pair Coburn with an ambidextrous position based puck mover like Timmo. Streit is close.Schultz is a far cry. You're pairing a stay at home guy with a stay at home guy and asking both to be puck moving transition guys. It's bad management and poor coaching with what you've got. THe players aren't helping either. [back to top] TopHighligh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent05 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Fine, but that's still four good seasons for an asset that they got for Freddy Meyer. Zhitnik played all of 31 games here.Meyer hasn't played hockey since 2011-12 with Modo in the SEL.I still don't believe the Waddell looked at the situation and said to himself: "Self," he said, "I've got a guy I drafted eighth overall and who is gonna have four pretty good seasons ahead of him, but eight years from now he'll fall off a cliff, so I'm trading him now for a guy who'll play 83 games for me."YMMV.If I remember correctly, Atlanta was a young team making a push for the playoffs and needed a vet presence then. That's what happens when teams trying to make a push or to add vet presence. We payed dearly for Adam Oates for all of 14 games. Thank god, the player and picks turned out bad. Just a example of what GMs will do for the playoffs. As for Wadell giving up on Coburn early, I was just guessing. Maybe the coaching staff knew he would be hard to teach on how to play defense or too dumb to learn as we are seeing now.Would he have lasted 8 seasons here if they didn't trade for Timonen? I highly doubt it as the Flyers have no patience for defenseman. They traded Pitkanen after a couple seasons because they got frustrated with him. The same would have happen to Coburn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 If I remember correctly, Atlanta was a young team making a push for the playoffs and needed a vet presence then. That's what happens when teams trying to make a push or to add vet presence. We payed dearly for Adam Oates for all of 14 games. Thank god, the player and picks turned out bad. Just a example of what GMs will do for the playoffs. As for Wadell giving up on Coburn early, I was just guessing. Maybe the coaching staff knew he would be hard to teach on how to play defense or too dumb to learn as we are seeing now.Completely agree on the folly of the deadline - "almost there".I just have absolutely no respect for Waddell as a GM. None. Zero. Zilch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilsFanDrew Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 If I remember correctly, Atlanta was a young team making a push for the playoffs and needed a vet presence then. That's what happens when teams trying to make a push or to add vet presence. We payed dearly for Adam Oates for all of 14 games. Thank god, the player and picks turned out bad. Just a example of what GMs will do for the playoffs. As for Wadell giving up on Coburn early, I was just guessing. Maybe the coaching staff knew he would be hard to teach on how to play defense or too dumb to learn as we are seeing now.Would he have lasted 8 seasons here if they didn't trade for Timonen? I highly doubt it as the Flyers have no patience for defenseman. They traded Pitkanen after a couple seasons because they got frustrated with him. The same would have happen to Coburn.I think you are sort of blaming Coburn for the Flyers management not valuing the need for a legit top pair defense tandem. The Flyers management under valued the need to draft for top pairing defensemen for years. They thought they got lucky and solved it with Pronger but that was short lived with Prongers injury. All players have limitations and it was clear that Coburn wasn't going to be the solution as a top pairing guy. That doesn't mean his value was completely lost and that the Flyers made a bad trade to acquire him. It just meant that he should be evaluated for what his ceiling is (a #4. #5 defensemen) and that they look in a different direction to solidify the top 2 rather than hope it would work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Let's pitch in and get him a minivan. LOL... that gave me a good chuckle. W a shaggin' wagon we could at least solve for a lot of the Flyers issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Let's pitch in and get him a minivan. Why stop there? A bus is bigger. Specifically, I suggest a mid-1960s Western Flyer D600 Canuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Why stop there? A bus is bigger. Specifically, I suggest a mid-1960s Western Flyer D600 Canuck that is freakin' hysterical pods... seriously awesomely awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent05 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I think you are sort of blaming Coburn for the Flyers management not valuing the need for a legit top pair defense tandem. The Flyers management under valued the need to draft for top pairing defensemen for years. They thought they got lucky and solved it with Pronger but that was short lived with Prongers injury. All players have limitations and it was clear that Coburn wasn't going to be the solution as a top pairing guy. That doesn't mean his value was completely lost and that the Flyers made a bad trade to acquire him. It just meant that he should be evaluated for what his ceiling is (a #4. #5 defensemen) and that they look in a different direction to solidify the top 2 rather than hope it would work out.Not blaming Coburn for Flyers mismanagement of not getting a true no.1 d-man. The Flyers are what they are, I blame Coburn for not learning anything thru the years of playing with one of the best d-man we have had in Timonen. Timonen was undersize but he learned how to use other advantages, while Coburn has great size and skating ability but failed at everything he does. I blame him for our current losing streak, it started when he came back. Last nights lost was also on him but not entirely but I am glad he made the bonehead play, was praying they would lose before regulation ended and it came to fruition. But seriously, how the hell does MDZ, CC and Schultz play better then Coburn? They were not wanted by the other 29 GMs in the league. I am thinking that becuase he is the vet and d-man that has been here the longest so the other guys take a back seat and let Coburn lead the way and that is why the defense plays piss poor lately. No other reason I can think of for a team that was playing good to great all of a sudden crash and burn now. If Conurn keeps this up, I don't think we will get a return that everyone expects because he flat out stinks just like VLC. I also take it that he is flat out too dumb to learn anything, even his mistakes so maybe I shouldn't blame him for being dumb also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I blame Coburn for not learning anything thru the years of playing with one of the best d-man we have had in Timonen I blame Lindros, but I digress. It's a good point you make. Proof positive that Coburn is, apparently, dumb as a post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I was listening to the guys on SiriusXM NHL this morning on the way in and they are convinced that Edmonton and the Flyers are going to be trading partners. They said Philly makes questionable moves and Edmonton accepts questionable players. It's a match made in heaven. Could it be possible that there is a move planned with VLC and MDZ being that they are both riding the pine, or am I looking too much into this? --- I think I just hi-jacked the thread sorry. Berube stinks and I don't like him. Is that better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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