Say what? Taylor Hall is uncoachable?

[hf101]

 

Darren Dreger offered this informed speculation on TSN Radio in Toronto on Monday, hours after Edmonton Oilers coach Dallas Eakins was relieved of his duties. In speaking about the Oilers’ culture, he said:

 

“It’s not one player. It’s the collection of players that make up the sagging work ethic and lack of culture. But if you had to put a face on it, or a name to it, that name would be Taylor Hall.

 

“Taylor Hall, at least from a culture standpoint, in the room not on the ice, hasn’t been what they hoped he would be. So when [GM Craig] MacTavish looks into his crystal ball and sees what’s coming his way through trades, he’s gotta be looking at the trade deadline and then beyond that looking at the draft floor.

 

“Because if you’re moving a piece like Taylor Hall, and I believe Taylor Hall will be in play, then the rate of return is always going to be the best in the summer.

 

“I think it speaks from a willingness to adapt. I’m choosing my words carefully in saying that. I’m not in the room, so we gather information from the sources that we have, and my sense is that Taylor Hall has a pretty specific vision on how he sees he needs to play and maybe how he thinks the team should play, and he really isn’t open to change, and that’s a problem.

 

“MacTavish will have to see first hand that what I said is true. If you’re moving out a franchise player like Taylor Hall, you have to be damn certain if that’s the right move for the organization.”

 

Kinda shocked to read this.  Maybe to much responsibility too fast, but wow I think Hall is one player I would think teams would be willing to drop a high #1 pick for.

[JK55]

I'm not shocked to hear this. Taylor Hall was actually one of the worst players at his combine in terms of his work ethic and the work that he had put in off the ice. He had no social skills, no "gym-rat" personality and no ability to change any facet from his game. Sequin was valued more and it's one of the main reasons why various teams had Sequin higher on their boards than Hall. Edmonton took Hall because for 9 or so months before the draft he was the projected #1 and the Oilers just draft on flash and paper pushing, not on logical skill and talent. Never been impressed with the kid and he just has no clue.

[JR Ewing]

I'm not shocked to hear this. Taylor Hall was actually one of the worst players at his combine in terms of his work ethic and the work that he had put in off the ice. He had no social skills, no "gym-rat" personality and no ability to change any facet from his game. Sequin was valued more and it's one of the main reasons why various teams had Sequin higher on their boards than Hall. Edmonton took Hall because for 9 or so months before the draft he was the projected #1 and the Oilers just draft on flash and paper pushing, not on logical skill and talent. Never been impressed with the kid and he just has no clue.

Do you mean the 2010 NHL Combine which was held less than a week after Hall had finished playing in (and being named MVP of) the Memorial Cup? Do you mean the same Combine that was held shortly after the kid looked like he was nearly crippled after being hit into the end boards? I don't know Taylor Hall or any of his teammates, nor do I know anything of what goes on behind the scenes in Edmonton, so I'm not going to pretend have an FBI-calibre profile on the kid... I leave that kind of gossip to other people who seem to have TMZ sources out there.

But that bit about his effort at the Combine, and his willingness to get ready for it is absurd.

[JR Ewing]

Dreger is connected, but he also had Kadri being traded at any moment, and same with Yakupov. This is what we can expect from Darren Dreger:

 

"“It may happen, it may not happen, but I think, if you’re asking me right now what I think is going to happen, I think it may happen. There’s a sense that something may happen, and if it were to happen, you have to think it wouldn’t be not happening. Everything is possible. Now, having said that, you don’t make it happen unless you’re damned sure you want to make it happen. Does the GM want to make it happen? I can’t answer that question – I’m not a mind reader. But certainly the signs are there. Everything is possible. So, what we’re looking at is a situation where, if you want to make it happen, are you prepared to make it happen? That’s what the GM has to ask himself. I don’t envy him.”

 

He's connected, but he throws a lot of stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

 

-The Oilers came in this season with 2 NHL centerman, only one of whom is an impact player. That must be Taylor Hall's fault.

-The Oilers have had sub-replacement level goaltending. Must be Taylor Hall's fault.

-The Oilers don't have a #1 defenseman. That must be Taylor Hall's fault.

-The Oilers have given WAY too many minutes to their worst defensemen while simultaneously playing their best the least or (in the case of Marincin) not at all. Didn't you know that's Taylor Hall's fault?

 

Taylor Hall is NOT a perfect player; not by any means. But it also wasn't very long ago that the Bruins just HAD to get rid of that immature, entitled locker room cancer named Tyler Seguin. How did that work out for them?

[yave1964]

@JR Ewing

 

No it is not the fault of Taylor Hall that the team does not have a number one goalie nor a number one defenseman. I get what you are saying, but quite frankly, I think the point is,

Hall, if traded would change the entire direction of the team, by trading their number one winger for a true number one center and a top pair defenseman, essentially they are changing the entire outlook for the team.

 

  In my opinion, and the opinion of most fans, the Oilers are built weird. Their top two players are both Wings and then RNH and Perron are nice complimentary players, RNH not (yet) developing into that top tier center that you guys were hoping for.And Nail is still miles away.

 

  So right now, the team has three solid wings, a couple of kid centers and a defenseless defense, granted one with (finally) some talent coming up and getting closer.

 

So lets look at trading Hall. Who would want him? Well everyone of course. Pointing out the ill fated Seguin trade teams should line up to get a young ridiculously talented kid like Hall. But who specifically.

 

 Well Boston does, and they have kid d-men, either Krejci/Bergeron and either Krug/Hamilton would fix a lot of what ails both teams.

Slats loves this type of deal. New York has the pieces. Can you imagine if he went to Colorado to skate with Mackinnon? They don't quite have the pieces but they could make a run that is enticing to the Oilers. The Blues, with the signing of Stastny and solid play of Lehtera could deal Backes and Shattenkirk. Hall playing for the fat man could be entertaining. You get the picture.

  But trading on paper between fans is fun, doing it for real takes a lot more effort. Personally, the first thing that has to go to change the culture is the entire management staff. A new face coming in, a new broom sweeps the cleanest and can rebuild the team in their image. Not sure what Craig Mac's image was. He must have been having a nightmare.

[flyercanuck]

Do you mean the 2010 NHL Combine which was held less than a week after Hall had finished playing in (and being named MVP of) the Memorial Cup? Do you mean the same Combine that was held shortly after the kid looked like he was nearly crippled after being hit into the end boards? I don't know Taylor Hall or any of his teammates, nor do I know anything of what goes on behind the scenes in Edmonton, so I'm not going to pretend have an FBI-calibre profile on the kid... I leave that kind of gossip to other people who seem to have TMZ sources out there.

But that bit about his effort at the Combine, and his willingness to get ready for it is absurd.

 

I watched Hall live a few games during that run. I heard the knocks on him that go with being rated #1 all year. I sat right beside the Spits bench when they played Barrie in the OHL championship. I saw a kid who left everything, and I mean everything on the ice. That series was a good ol' fashioned war...and he was their best player.

[hf101]

I'm not shocked to hear this. Taylor Hall was actually one of the worst players at his combine in terms of his work ethic and the work that he had put in off the ice. He had no social skills, no "gym-rat" personality and no ability to change any facet from his game. Sequin was valued more and it's one of the main reasons why various teams had Sequin higher on their boards than Hall. Edmonton took Hall because for 9 or so months before the draft he was the projected #1 and the Oilers just draft on flash and paper pushing, not on logical skill and talent. Never been impressed with the kid and he just has no clue.

 

Hall had to be coachable to be ranked #1 throughout the season and be MVP of the Memorial Cup... just sayin.  Which is why I was surprised to read the comments by Dreger.

[ruxpin]

VLC & Coburn for Hall. If that's not lopsided for Hall... well, throw in Luke Schenn for good measure.

Get'er done!

Hall is not the problem in Edmonton.

[hf101]

@yave1964 @JR Ewing

 

Looking back I'm wondering what were the offers left on the table for the #1 picks in 2011 and 2012.  

What was offered for trading down?  Could they have obtained a nice roster player and a later picK?  

 

In 2011 Carter and Richards had to have been offered by Holmgren.  In 2012 there was a lot of star D available to move back a few picks. 

[JR Ewing]

@yave1964

 

Oh, I agree with what you're saying, and wouldn't express anything to the opposite. Taylor Hall is the most significant piece they've had since Chris Pronger was an Oiler, and that's whether he plays for the club or is dealt to another for a major piece, he can change the direction of the franchise. I absolutely agree.

 

My only issue, and the point of my "It must be Taylor Hall's fault" post was this narrative that was emerging, particularly on TSN yesterday, which is attemptint to paint him as some sort of cancer. The media loves to do this sort of thing, showing clips of him breaking his stick or throwing a water bottle in frustration, when all of those shots were in cicrumstances where the club was being embarrassed in their own building. Who the hell wouldn't be frustrated, right?

 

But yes, he could be moved. If so, Craig MacTavish cannot make a mistake like the Bruins did with Seguin. Honestly, I think it's damned tough to trade Taylor Hall and come out on the other side with the better player, but the return would be signifcant either way.

[JR Ewing]

I watched Hall live a few games during that run. I heard the knocks on him that go with being rated #1 all year. I sat right beside the Spits bench when they played Barrie in the OHL championship. I saw a kid who left everything, and I mean everything on the ice. That series was a good ol' fashioned war...and he was their best player.

Yup. Taylor Hall has played 5,123 minutes during his NHL career, and I've watched every one of those minutes. That young man burns with a very intense desire to win, has immense skill, and has not once mailed in a game with little effort. I won't pretend to have watched him more than a few times during his time in the OHL, but that was the take on him then, too.

[JR Ewing]

@yave1964 @JR Ewing

 

Looking back I'm wondering what were the offers left on the table for the #1 picks in 2011 and 2012.  

What was offered for trading down?  Could they have obtained a nice roster player and a later picK?  

 

In 2011 Carter and Richards had to have been offered by Holmgren.  In 2012 there was a lot of star D available to move back a few picks.

I really don't know what was offered, but it's probably tough to knock the team for not taking those trades and drafting the two players who were each considered to be the prospects in the world at the time. What the Oilers did is what damned near every team has ever done with the #1 pick: hold on to it.

[brelic]

Dreger is well-connected and respected and is not usually prone to hyperbole.

 

He must have gotten pretty solid information on this. That doesn't mean it's the 'truth', but it means that someone with intimate knowledge of the Oilers situation in the room is sharing it with Dreger and co. 

 

Bottom line is that what he's reporting is not made-up - it comes from someone (or more) in the Oilers organization.

[brelic]

I really don't know what was offered, but it's probably tough to knock the team for not taking those trades and drafting the two players who were each considered to be the prospects in the world at the time. What the Oilers did is what damned near every team has ever done with the #1 pick: hold on to it.

 

How much better would the Oilers look with Seguin and Landeskog?

 

A lot, I would say. I know, hindsight is 20/20

[flyercanuck]

The Seguin pre or post trade? Cause the one who needed a security guard during the playoffs isn't better than Hall. 

[JR Ewing]

How much better would the Oilers look with Seguin and Landeskog?

 

A lot, I would say. I know, hindsight is 20/20

I don't really see tons of evidence that they'd be that much better off with Seguin and Landeskog. It wasn't so long ago that Tyler Seguin was run out of Boston because of what they thought were huge issues surrounding immaturity and character. Landeskog is a good player, but so is Nugent-Hopkins. Honestly, I think it's tough to make a big comparison because neither Seguin nor Landeskog play in the tire fire which is the Edmonton Oilers, a club where damned near everybody has regressed in the last year and a half.

Even then, it's all hindsight, as you say. Both Hall and Nugent-Hopkins were the consensus #1 picks among scouts, so it's tough to knock the Oilers for choosing them. If there are issues, it's been with development. Looking at RNH, Tom Renney said that Kevin Lowe demnaded he play the kid as a 165 lb skinny kid, even with a bad shoulder which was needing surgery. Is there are any reason to believe that Seguin or Landeskog would have been as successful if they were Oilers, given that sort of craziness?

[JR Ewing]

The Seguin pre or post trade? Cause the one who needed a security guard during the playoffs isn't better than Hall.

Yup.

And point me in the direction of a player who

-went to Edmonton and got better, or

-left Edmonton and didn't get better

There's no real element to "they'd be a lot better with Seguin and Landeskog" other than pure guesswork. Seguin was drafted into an organization which had zero need or desire to rush him or make him their #1 guy right away. To the Bruins credit, they put him in a situation to succeed. Hall was put in the exact opposite situation and has, by the way, performed anyway. We're talking about a kid that's playing for a pretty woeful franchise, has seen team-wide regression all around him, yet has found a way to finish 2nd in his conference in scoring two years ago, and 6th last year. This year, he's playing hurt and trying to help turn it around.

[flyercanuck]

@JR Ewing

 

Unless I get blown out of the water by a trade offer, Hall is the last guy on that roster I trade. If Edmonton continues to suck, having McD or Eichel with Hall as their winger is going to be fun to watch....even if it is on the disfunctional Oilers.

[Samifan]

Sounds like Edmonton needs a veteran center and stanley cup winner to help mentor the kids and be a strong locker room presence.   VLC to Edmonton for ANYTHING!

[brelic]

The Seguin pre or post trade? Cause the one who needed a security guard during the playoffs isn't better than Hall. 

 

I still can't believe Boston traded him. That was a terrible trade - possibly worse than the Leafs made when trading away that draft pick for Kessel. 

 

The Hawks could have done the same with Kane, and sent him off to Buffalo to beat up more cabbies. But they stuck by him instead.

[radoran]

But it also wasn't very long ago that the Bruins just HAD to get rid of that immature, entitled locker room cancer named Tyler Seguin. How did that work out for them?

 

President's trophy, Atlantic Division title and second round of the playoffs?

 

Eriksson and Smith tied for fourth on the team this season in scoring and all four parts of the trade with significant playing time on the Bruins?

[fanaticV3.0]

Sounds like Edmonton needs a veteran center and stanley cup winner to help mentor the kids and be a strong locker room presence.   VLC to Edmonton for ANYTHING!

 

You said strong locker room presence though.

[JR Ewing]

President's trophy, Atlantic Division title and second round of the playoffs?

 

Eriksson and Smith tied for fourth on the team this season in scoring and all four parts of the trade with significant playing time on the Bruins?

Alright, fair enough. They won before Seguin, they won during, and they continue to win, though not nearly as much as before. It's not right for me to talk like the Bruins were taken to the cleaners; it was hyperbole for sure. For my part, I guess I always held more to the Sam Pollock school of trading: get the best player in the deal. But I think you're right in the end: I was a little unfair to Boston in this case. This could also be coming from the part of me that watched a dynasty be stripped down one 1-for-2-players or 2-for-3-players deal at a time...

It doesn't usually go well.

[flyercanuck]

I still can't believe Boston traded him. That was a terrible trade - possibly worse than the Leafs made when trading away that draft pick for Kessel. 

 

The Hawks could have done the same with Kane, and sent him off to Buffalo to beat up more cabbies. But they stuck by him instead.

 

 

I can't believe they traded the Tyler Seguin thats playing now. But that wasn't the guy they traded. That guy was an asshat. I agre they probably should have been more patient with him. But maybe they were and were at their wits end.

[JR Ewing]

I can't believe they traded the Tyler Seguin thats playing now. But that wasn't the guy they traded. That guy was an asshat. I agre they probably should have been more patient with him. But maybe they were and were at their wits end.

Mark Messier was, by accounts around Edmonton, a wild youg man who needed some time to mature. I don't know...

For all I know, Tyler Seguin is still an asshat, but just a productive one. I sure as hell don't know any better than I did when he was in Boston, and 99% of what was printed about him was pure speculation. What I know for sure: all of the same people who write glowing articles which speak of a player's perspiration, preparation and dedication will turn to writing articles all about him being an immature, me-first locker room cancer who had to be dealt by the GM... And fans will eat up that crap as much as they did the positive articles.

While a player is on the team, people love hero worship articles, and after they're gone or the team is looking for a narrative which allows him to be dealt with minimal fallout, fans have consistently shown that they like articles which tear the player down from a pedestal they never belonged on in the first place.