jammer2 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 @JagerMeister Ahhhh, knew I was going to leave out a major guy, Malkin belongs. I think Bure was an important part of his era. I think OV is a selfish tool who will never ever learn that teams win, not individuals. If I include OV, he goes to the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 1) Lidstrom 2)Jagr 3)Hasek 4)P.Stasney 5)Selanne 6)Kurri 7)Bure 8)OV No Forsberg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 @hf101 ha ha....did the thing right off the top of my head, *just* knew I was leaving some out....Malkin and Peter are HUGE omissions, my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 @JagerMeister Ahhhh, knew I was going to leave out a major guy, Malkin belongs. I think Bure was an important part of his era. I think OV is a selfish tool who will never ever learn that teams win, not individuals. If I include OV, he goes to the bottom.I didn't realize we were including Russians / Soviets. Most skilled, OV goes on the list. Talking all around hockey players, the only top ten list be makes is "biggest schmucks." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 No Forsberg? I wondered this myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I could have sworn that Peter Stasney came over here late, but it appears he only spent 2 years in Europe before coming over.... http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=5156 I know a few will disagree, but I put Mats Sundin ahead of OV also....Sundin evloved into a GREAT captain, somehting OV will never do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I could have sworn that Peter Stasney came over here late, but it appears he only spent 2 years in Europe before coming over....http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=5156 I know a few will disagree, but I put Mats Sundin ahead of OV also....Sundin evloved into a GREAT captain, somehting OV will never do.Never impressed with Sundin. At all. But I'll begrudgingly put him advice Ovie. But that really only shows what little regard I have four Ovie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 I could have sworn that Peter Stasney came over here late, but it appears he only spent 2 years in Europe before coming over.... http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=5156 I know a few will disagree, but I put Mats Sundin ahead of OV also....Sundin evloved into a GREAT captain, somehting OV will never do.You really dont like Ovi ai? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 I personally wouldn't start with the premise that Hasek was the greatest goalie of all time. In fact, for me, he doesn't even enter the conversation. Seriously. So, now I can make the argument for Lindstrom or Jagr (also great but not greatest at their positions).Hard to compare defenseman vs. winger. They are one and two, but I guess I go with Jagr and then Lindstrom. I changed my mind several times while typing this.i have to disagree with you, that he doesnt even enter the conersation, how many goalies have won two harts and 6 vezina trophies. His competition was Brodeur and Roy, he won against some great goaltenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 @JagerMeister No, I despise OV. He represents everything that should be gone from the game, showboating....cash over winning, glory over teammates....on and on. With all the millions OV makes in representing different products, did he really have to get full value out of the Caps. I know others have done the same thing, but I probably hate him so much it sticks out more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 1) Lidstrom 2)Jagr 3)Hasek 4)P.Stasney 5)Selanne 6)Kurri 7)Bure 8)OVits ok though, i usually forget players when making a list as well here is mine, Alot of you might disagree with the ordering.1. Hasek2. Lidstrom3. jagr4. Forsberg( if he played longer, i might have put him ahead of jagr)5. Stastny6. Kurri7. Fedorov8. Selanne9. Ovechkin10. MalkinHM: Salming, Sundin, Alfredsson, Zubov, Lindbergh, Datsyuk, Bure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 @JagerMeister No, I despise OV. He represents everything that should be gone from the game, showboating....cash over winning, glory over teammates....on and on. With all the millions OV makes in representing different products, did he really have to get full value out of the Caps. I know others have done the same thing, but I probably hate him so much it sticks out more.I dont mind him. Although his showboating reminds me to much of the NFL... He has a big personality. Atleast he isnt boring. but i can definitly see why someone would dislike him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 its ok though, i usually forget players when making a list as wellhere is mine, Alot of you might disagree with the ordering.1. Hasek2. Lidstrom3. jagr4. Forsberg( if he played longer, i might have put him ahead of jagr)5. Stastny6. Kurri7. Fedorov8. Selanne9. Ovechkin10. MalkinHM: Salming, Sundin, Alfredsson, Zubov, Lindbergh, Datsyuk, BureYeah, I'd have a different order, but pretty good list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 @Polaris922You discount Hasek because he wasn't a great teammate, but Jagr you give a free pass? Jagr has become a great teammate...there was a time when he was one of the biggest prima donnas in the league. I'm not being cynical...just saying judge them both on even ground. I am. Jagr at worst demanded a trade from my Pens. Hasek got Nolan canned in Buffalo, which resulted in ... " For the first six weeks of the next season he was booed so vigorously that arena workers would play tapes of a crowd cheering to help balance it out"... He also bailed on his team in the playoffs, and assaulted a journalist.That's not the sole basis for my opinion though. I also think Jagr's longevity and steady climb up the record books is more noteworthy. I give Hasek honorable mention as he was a great talent. Loved watching him play. But I consider him a third place at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 I am. Jagr at worst demanded a trade from my Pens. Hasek got Nolan canned in Buffalo, which resulted in ... " For the first six weeks of the next season he was booed so vigorously that arena workers would play tapes of a crowd cheering to help balance it out"... He also bailed on his team in the playoffs, and assaulted a journalist.That's not the sole basis for my opinion though. I also think Jagr's longevity and steady climb up the record books is more noteworthy. I give Hasek honorable mention as he was a great talent. Loved watching him play. But I consider him a third place at best.remember "dying alive"? the comments he made in pittsburgh didnt make the fans happy. Ofc its not as bad what Hasek did. But jagr is still booed to this day by bitter penguins fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I am. Jagr at worst demanded a trade from my Pens. Hasek got Nolan canned in Buffalo, which resulted in ... " For the first six weeks of the next season he was booed so vigorously that arena workers would play tapes of a crowd cheering to help balance it out"... He also bailed on his team in the playoffs, and assaulted a journalist.That's not the sole basis for my opinion though. I also think Jagr's longevity and steady climb up the record books is more noteworthy. I give Hasek honorable mention as he was a great talent. Loved watching him play. But I consider him a third place at best. He basically mailed in his time in Washington. He put up decent numbers, but not what we expected out of him. That doesn't effect how you feel about him as a Pen fan, but it certainly comes into this conversation. He's still an alltime great. But he left a few years at the end of his first stint...to be desired. I gotta admit though, he's changed my opinion of him as a mentor to younger guys since he came back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 @JagerMeister As a Wings fan who is admittedly biased I have tried to refrain from getting into the Lidstrom thing. Obviously to me he is a God, one of the top three d-men of all time. The more I think about it I would have to rate him ahead of Hasek, who also spent a fair amount of his career wearing the winged wheel. Hasek with back to back Harts and constantly winning the Vezina against stiff competition was amazing, with Marty and Paddy Roy he still was the best goalie of his time. When the Wings won in 2002 he absolutely carried us, he deserved the Conn Smythe. My problem was he hung on for too long. The last four or five years of his career he was still a solid player but a bit of a caricature. His peak was amazing, among the best in the game but he hung out for a bit long, padding his career stats and marring his memory a bit. Lidstrom on the other hand aged as well as any player in the game and although it broke my heart, i was convinced he had another two years (or more) in him, he stated that if others could not see him slipping, he could and that was all that mattered. He retired on top of his game or close to it. One solid, beautiful season after another with no Yzerman type of cringe worthy seasons, he simply rode off into the sunset as one of the top d-men still active in the game. So personally, to me, I go with Lidstrom over Hasek. That said, I still go Jagr as the greatest Euro of all time. He went from Mario's sidekick to a genuine star in his own right to a bit of a perennial disappointment as he bounced around the league never quite helping his teams to win. But now, as the senior citizen of the league he has turned into a classy player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke2Leach Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 @JagerMeister As a Wings fan who is admittedly biased I have tried to refrain from getting into the Lidstrom thing. Obviously to me he is a God, one of the top three d-men of all time. The more I think about it I would have to rate him ahead of Hasek, who also spent a fair amount of his career wearing the winged wheel. Hasek with back to back Harts and constantly winning the Vezina against stiff competition was amazing, with Marty and Paddy Roy he still was the best goalie of his time. When the Wings won in 2002 he absolutely carried us, he deserved the Conn Smythe. My problem was he hung on for too long. The last four or five years of his career he was still a solid player but a bit of a caricature. His peak was amazing, among the best in the game but he hung out for a bit long, padding his career stats and marring his memory a bit. Lidstrom on the other hand aged as well as any player in the game and although it broke my heart, i was convinced he had another two years (or more) in him, he stated that if others could not see him slipping, he could and that was all that mattered. He retired on top of his game or close to it. One solid, beautiful season after another with no Yzerman type of cringe worthy seasons, he simply rode off into the sunset as one of the top d-men still active in the game. So personally, to me, I go with Lidstrom over Hasek. That said, I still go Jagr as the greatest Euro of all time. He went from Mario's sidekick to a genuine star in his own right to a bit of a perennial disappointment as he bounced around the league never quite helping his teams to win. But now, as the senior citizen of the league he has turned into a classy player.I was right with you up til the last paragraph. Jagr's talent was undeniable, but Lidstrom made everyone better every shift of every game. I'd put Niklas at the top of the list. Because he was so humble and unassuming, I don't think he got quite as much reverance as he deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 @JagerMeister As a Wings fan who is admittedly biased I have tried to refrain from getting into the Lidstrom thing. Obviously to me he is a God, one of the top three d-men of all time. The more I think about it I would have to rate him ahead of Hasek, who also spent a fair amount of his career wearing the winged wheel. Hasek with back to back Harts and constantly winning the Vezina against stiff competition was amazing, with Marty and Paddy Roy he still was the best goalie of his time. When the Wings won in 2002 he absolutely carried us, he deserved the Conn Smythe. My problem was he hung on for too long. The last four or five years of his career he was still a solid player but a bit of a caricature. His peak was amazing, among the best in the game but he hung out for a bit long, padding his career stats and marring his memory a bit. Lidstrom on the other hand aged as well as any player in the game and although it broke my heart, i was convinced he had another two years (or more) in him, he stated that if others could not see him slipping, he could and that was all that mattered. He retired on top of his game or close to it. One solid, beautiful season after another with no Yzerman type of cringe worthy seasons, he simply rode off into the sunset as one of the top d-men still active in the game. So personally, to me, I go with Lidstrom over Hasek. That said, I still go Jagr as the greatest Euro of all time. He went from Mario's sidekick to a genuine star in his own right to a bit of a perennial disappointment as he bounced around the league never quite helping his teams to win. But now, as the senior citizen of the league he has turned into a classy player.i agree with what you said about Hasek hanging around for a bit to long, but didnt he come into the NHL late? and you know who else is hanging around a bit to long? Jagr. ever since hes come back from the KHL he has been a decent player. Sometimes i switch between Hasek and lidstrom because lidstrom was great for so long, his longevity is almost as good as bourque's, and he does have a good case for top 3 dman of all time i would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 He basically mailed in his time in Washington. He put up decent numbers, but not what we expected out of him. That doesn't effect how you feel about him as a Pen fan, but it certainly comes into this conversation. He's still an alltime great. But he left a few years at the end of his first stint...to be desired. I gotta admit though, he's changed my opinion of him as a mentor to younger guys since he came back.mentor? any specific players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 mentor? any specific players?Yeah he is mentoring young guys like Gomez and Havlat and Ryder and Clowe and........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 Yeah he is mentoring young guys like Gomez and Havlat and Ryder and Clowe and........I guess you know what goes on in the locker room... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 @JagerMeister I think your sarcasm detector just failed miserably.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 @JagerMeister I think your sarcasm detector just failed miserably....When typing that comment, i think i forgot the ages of the players he mentioned haha, god thats embaressing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 @JagerMeister ha....no biggie, I've done far worse on way less important things, happens to anyone who posts a lot eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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