King Knut Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 "Hextall on the Flyers and their draft position: "You can't sit and say, 'OK we'll just not win any games, and we'll get McDavid or Eichel.' That's not the way it works. You've got to have credibility." . . "Did he essentially just tell everyone, "sure, we suck but we can't just flat out suck or they won't give us the picks anyway. Everyone chill, we'll be tanking gradually and making it look good, I got this. It's all good" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 You sure he didn't mean credibility in that a team should go out and try and win no matter what. To do otherwise undermines the franchise, the players and management, soils the proud heritage. There is NO shame in fighting hard and finally losing. The shame, the bad attitudes, the possibility of a losing atmosphere developing and maybe just not caring as players because management doesn't care is where you lose your credibility. I personally think that's kinda what he meant. Perhaps I'm wrong and we will never truly know. I know it's wishful thinking and tempting to think he might be saying what you want but there is certainly at least 2 ways to look at that statement by him. Hextall isn't a tanker. It's just not bread into him from what I'v seen over a VERY long time. I would truly be disappointed if I found out he insinuated to his guys to tank. True leaders fight and let the chips fall as they may. That's the message I'd tell them about any tanking talk. "Go out there and be the best you can be and as your manager I'm gonna get this ship turned around. But I can't do that if your not playing to win". That's the message I want EVERY single guy from Giroux to the stick boy to hear... Just my 180 degree perspective on that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Does anyone really expect them to go out and try to lose? I mean I want the top pick in the draft...but I';m certainly not expecting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 No professional athlete tries to lose. You don't get where they are with that in you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 @Polaris922 Unless of course you play for the White Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 "Hextall on the Flyers and their draft position: "You can't sit and say, 'OK we'll just not win any games, and we'll get McDavid or Eichel.' That's not the way it works. You've got to have credibility." . . "Did he essentially just tell everyone, "sure, we suck but we can't just flat out suck or they won't give us the picks anyway. Everyone chill, we'll be tanking gradually and making it look good, I got this. It's all good"That's actually not the way I took it at all. I think you really have to distort what he was saying to translate it to that. We're not tanking. We're working hard to try to win. Anything else undermines the credibility of the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briere48 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 That's actually not the way I took it at all. I think you really have to distort what he was saying to translate it to that.We're not tanking. We're working hard to try to win. Anything else undermines the credibility of the franchise.hextall didnt want to tank, it's the team that's quitting which hextall didnt expect to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 That's actually not the way I took it at all. I think you really have to distort what he was saying to translate it to that. We're not tanking. We're working hard to try to win. Anything else undermines the credibility of the franchise.I know I know, but the use of the word credibility is just so odd. It's not a word I'd normally think a GM would use in that situation. Why would it even go to that direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 No professional athlete tries to lose. You don't get where they are with that in you. To add to that, no professional athlete would agree to throwing games or giving half-hearted effort if it were implied by his coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 To add to that, no professional athlete would agree to throwing games or giving half-hearted effort if it were implied by his coach.And yet, professional athletes quit on coaches and teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I know I know, but the use of the word credibility is just so odd. It's not a word I'd normally think a GM would use in that situation. Why would it even go to that direction?Just my take but he's basically just saying the organization--any organization - - exists to try to win (and hopefully to make money in the process). Win or lose, the tickets, the advertising fees, the concessions, etc etc etc all cost the same. You start trying NOT to win, you lose all credibility as an organization, as a brand, and as men. I'm curious what kind of kick in the nuts the Sixers got reading that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 And yet, professional athletes quit on coaches and teammates. I've never been a professional athlete, so I don't know what happens in practice in the locker room. But I would bet that it's not an active 'quitting' on coaches that they do. It's more like a buildup of anger and resentment over time, and it starts to affect your play - usually in a negative way. My only experience is playing hockey for many many years as an amateur, and I've had coaches that just barked and barked orders all the time. It's a great motivator at first. But when the same message is heard over and over, and the results aren't there, it creates a cognitive dissonance - "listen coach, we're doing all the things you're telling us and we're still not winning." You almost feel like saying "try something else, dumbass." And I've reached that tipping point when I no longer believed that my or my team's work ethic was the problem - but the guy barking the same nonsense over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 You start trying NOT to win, you lose all credibility as an organization, as a brand, and as men. Yup. That's called defrauding the fans who pay money to see their product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phlyer1 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 hextall didnt want to tank, it's the team that's quitting which hextall didnt expect to happen.I also think that a real Pro still has things to prove about himself and to himself. I am a gamer and will be till the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 @Polaris922Unless of course you play for the White Sox.I think things were a little different 97 years ago... Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Why would it even go to that direction? I think he went in that direction because of the hard truth that the team is gonna pretty much suck and he knows they are NOT tanking and doesn't want to be perceived as tanking. It might just be happening naturally. I'm ok if it happens naturally, not if they do it on purpose. I'd paraphrase Hextall with this: "Look everyone, we are gonna suck big time but not on purpose. We are gonna keep trying to win so don't even think about us tanking because it ain't gonna happen. Now, who's gonna be available at #5?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 ( besides, even if the Flyers tried to tank I firmly believe the Oilers or Sabres can "out tank" the Flyers. It would be our luck to win the tanking battle and still lose the lottery. Hmmm, didn't that already happen to us when the odds were even better at winning back then?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I've never been a professional athlete, so I don't know what happens in practice in the locker room. But I would bet that it's not an active 'quitting' on coaches that they do. It's more like a buildup of anger and resentment over time, and it starts to affect your play - usually in a negative way. My only experience is playing hockey for many many years as an amateur, and I've had coaches that just barked and barked orders all the time. It's a great motivator at first. But when the same message is heard over and over, and the results aren't there, it creates a cognitive dissonance - "listen coach, we're doing all the things you're telling us and we're still not winning." You almost feel like saying "try something else, dumbass." And I've reached that tipping point when I no longer believed that my or my team's work ethic was the problem - but the guy barking the same nonsense over and over.You know, that's an awesome post. Probably a lot of truth to your point too.I was referring to the active rebellions (Primeau), and individuals who flat out mail it in for the check.Seriously good post though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I think things were a little different 97 years ago... LolYeah. Fantasy sports must have been a bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 I agree, that's why I thinknits odd that's not what he said. He didn't say we're a team and we play to win. He said they need to have credibility. Which is different. Just my take but he's basically just saying the organization--any organization - - exists to try to win (and hopefully to make money in the process). Win or lose, the tickets, the advertising fees, the concessions, etc etc etc all cost the same. You start trying NOT to win, you lose all credibility as an organization, as a brand, and as men. I'm curious what kind of kick in the nuts the Sixers got reading that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Monet Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 If it guaranteed the 1st pick in the draft , I would have no problem with the flyers playing not to win this season. It would give some hope on another awful situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 If it guaranteed the 1st pick in the draft , I would have no problem with the flyers playing not to win this season. It would give some hope on another awful situation Nothing will guarantee a 1st overall pick, not even finishing dead last. There's a better chance that this team makes the playoffs than finish dead last. So, to you point, what would tanking - or "playing not to win" - look like? If Hextall trades Coburn and Couturier, is he tanking? If Berube keeps juggling lines and playing Wheel Of Healthy Scratches, is he tanking? If the team plays half-hearted or "not a full 60 minutes" (which they've been accused of doing at any given time over the last decade), are they tanking? I'm asking these honestly, because I really don't even know what tanking would look like. You would need all FOUR levels on board - Owner, GM, Coach, and players. That just doesn't happen in professional sports, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idahophilly Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 You would need all FOUR levels on board - Owner, GM, Coach, and players. That just doesn't happen in professional sports, IMO. If it was that deep there could even be liability involved if it ever leaked... but that's beside the point anyway... for all the reasons laid out already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Nothing will guarantee a 1st overall pick, not even finishing dead last. There's a better chance that this team makes the playoffs than finish dead last.So, to you point, what would tanking - or "playing not to win" - look like? If Hextall trades Coburn and Couturier, is he tanking?If Berube keeps juggling lines and playing Wheel Of Healthy Scratches, is he tanking?If the team plays half-hearted or "not a full 60 minutes" (which they've been accused of doing at any given time over the last decade), are they tanking?I'm asking these honestly, because I really don't even know what tanking would look like. You would need all FOUR levels on board - Owner, GM, Coach, and players. That just doesn't happen in professional sports, IMO. See Sixers, Philadelphia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 See Sixers, Philadelphia I've never watched basketball. What's their story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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