ruxpin Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 If it's such a common opinion, why do they keep doing it? Clearly, you're right here. I started trying to look to see what the television ratings were doing over the past several years. I was on my phone, but the few things I got to look at indicated they were actually going up. Go figure. Then again, television ratings were high for sheer idiocy like Duck Dynasty and Kardashians (which I always thought was an alien race on Star Trek) and Honey Do-Do. So, go figure television ratings and "taste." Obviously, as long as television ratings remain or--as they seem to be now--continue to increase, given advertising revenue, etc., they'd be foolish to stop it. I think it's like the shootout Sadly yes. But what a horrible advertisement. I don't remember it being this way 10-20 years ago. Am I misremembering? To me, the fact the game's biggest (or one of) marketable stars in Crosby skips the game due to a dubious injury (yes, I am calling BS on his inability to participate after playing 23 minutes the night before) speaks volumes about the state of things. What has changed? I'm not a sociologist, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. But if I had to venture a guess, what would you think of a "it's the ME generation" answer? It just seems that might be it given the realistic "what's the point" or at the very least 'what's in it for me?" And yes, I'm with you on calling BS on Crosby. Help me out with the 15-20 years ago thing. Maybe I'm thinking even further back than that, but back in the day I don't remember the whole weekend thing. I remember break for a day or two, play the game, break for a day or two and back at it. Also, back in the day, there was slightly less movement of players (before salary cap and free agency, etc.) so *maybe* there was slightly more pride in the Wales vs. Campbell conference thing. I don't know. But even back then, the games themselves were 15-12 affairs that were kind of a silly joke. I was just pointing out that your 'opinion' of things really doesn't matter [Full Stop] Yeah, it works out that way at home, too. You're certainly right. But I guess the crux of this is that the all-star game is a money grab for the league. I don't think (unless they have a bonus in their individual contract for making the game--I'm not sure whether that exists a lot anymore) the players individually get anything out of it. So I guess I'm just saying I get their not wanting to go and will try to get out of it if they can. Thus, the need for the Datsyuk-Zetts rule. If there was anything in it for the player they probably wouldn't need the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Obviously, as long as television ratings remain or--as they seem to be now--continue to increase, given advertising revenue, etc., they'd be foolish to stop it. Exactly. Just like the Winter Classic. It doesn't really appeal to me unless the Flyers are playing, and even then.... It just doesn't ring true to anything I associate with the classic winter game of hockey. But it has good ratings. Just as the Kardashians (I couldn't even identify them in a lineup), and the other shows that receive high ratings. Clearly, we are not the target audience. I'm not a sociologist, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. But if I had to venture a guess, what would you think of a "it's the ME generation" answer? It just seems that might be it given the realistic "what's the point" or at the very least 'what's in it for me?" Maybe. That could be exactly it. If that's the case, it's not the players' fault. They are who they are. It's the league for failing to organize something that appeals to the players. The number one thing to get engagement is to incentivize. Of course, giving away a car to multimillionaires is beyond foolish - it's nothing but placed advertisement by the car company. It's hard to feel like the player 'deserved' a free car, or that the possibility of winning one would have any sort of incentive for players. Help me out with the 15-20 years ago thing. Maybe I'm thinking even further back than that, but back in the day I don't remember the whole weekend thing. I remember break for a day or two, play the game, break for a day or two and back at it. Also, back in the day, there was slightly less movement of players (before salary cap and free agency, etc.) so *maybe* there was slightly more pride in the Wales vs. Campbell conference thing. I don't know. But even back then, the games themselves were 15-12 affairs that were kind of a silly joke. Yes, I think you're right. It certainly wasn't as drawn out as it is now. I mean, it's not a bad thing if they could manage to make it relevant throughout, and not some caricature of itself. It is nice to see players let their guards down and be human beings, you know? Then again, maybe we remember it differently because it appealed to us then. At least it did to me. Living where I live in Canada, I rarely ever got to see or hear the Flyers the way I do now. It's an amazing thing that I can watch every single Flyers game. So the ASG weekend was a chance for me, as a kid, to see all of these stars at the same time - especially the Flyers representatives. Yeah, it works out that way at home, too. Haha, no doubt You're certainly right. But I guess the crux of this is that the all-star game is a money grab for the league. I don't think (unless they have a bonus in their individual contract for making the game--I'm not sure whether that exists a lot anymore) the players individually get anything out of it. So I guess I'm just saying I get their not wanting to go and will try to get out of it if they can. Thus, the need for the Datsyuk-Zetts rule. If there was anything in it for the player they probably wouldn't need the rule. Yup - the ASG is a lucrative thing, it seems. So I think it comes back to the league's failure to incentivize it for the players. I wonder what their honest take on it would be... if, you know, they were allowed to talk freely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I can use asterisks.Lol.....classic !!!! I think I just spit up my drink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I have to admit, I've traditionally enjoyed the All Star Game. Granted it's not "hockey" as we know it, but I've enjoyed watching some of the players' creativity and playing around.That changed this year. In years past, players seemed to care who won. They played with SOME determination and actually put an effort into skating and passing if nothing else. This year it looked like coasting and nothing but stick time. Nobody cares to even try to defend. I watched about ten minutes then walked away. Is it possible it's getting worse?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Is it possible it's getting worse?? It's possible for sure... or you're getting at an age where it doesn't appeal to you anymore - could that be it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 It's possible for sure... or you're getting at an age where it doesn't appeal to you anymore - could that be it?No... I've been around awhile now. Lol. Nothing has happened to change my perspective that I know of. I just think the players actually care even less than before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 No... I've been around awhile now. Lol. Nothing has happened to change my perspective that I know of. I just think the players actually care even less than before? That may actually be an age perspective statement. I also happen to think it's accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Another thing that hurts the all-star game is the fact that it keeps getting cancelled with all the lockouts the league has. At one point in time, players cared about the all-star game. (We're talking more than twenty years ago now though.) The league could have taken steps to reinforce how important it is but chose not to. Examples: 1. Winner of the all-star game gets home ice advantage in the Stanley Cup final. (Just like baseball.) Why not try it?2. Any player selected to play (that chooses not to) would receive an automatic 15 game suspension.3. Eliminate 30 team represenation. The best players go. Some teams won't send any players. That's a good thing.4. Reduce fan voting to one player per team. Everyone else gets in on merit based on their stats using NHL analysts.5. Make the stats in the all-star game count toward the season totals for those players, thereby affecting trophy races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Another thing that hurts the all-star game is the fact that it keeps getting cancelled with all the lockouts the league has. At one point in time, players cared about the all-star game. (We're talking more than twenty years ago now though.) The league could have taken steps to reinforce how important it is but chose not to. Examples: 1. Winner of the all-star game gets home ice advantage in the Stanley Cup final. (Just like baseball.) Why not try it? Sure, try it, but I'm not even sure why this is an incentive for anyone in baseball either. It's fine. If it's not the President's Trophy winner it's mostly arbitrary anyway, so it might as well be based on this.2. Any player selected to play (that chooses not to) would receive an automatic 15 game suspension. If they're not doing anything to make it worth the player's while, I don't like the extra big stick. I'd rather they find something on the carrot end of things. Give the players a reason to go or cancel the whole thing.3. Eliminate 30 team represenation. The best players go. Some teams won't send any players. That's a good thing. I'm always okay with this one. In baseball too.4. Reduce fan voting to one player per team. Everyone else gets in on merit based on their stats using NHL analysts. Sounds okay, I guess. I'm just wondering what the ramifications would be in practice. 5. Make the stats in the all-star game count toward the season totals for those players, thereby affecting trophy races. This one is actually what caused me to reply. I don't like this at all. So far, there's nothing here as incentive to play defense or goal or hockey, for that matter, in the all star game. I'm guessing most of the players actively involved in races in any of the major categories would be in the game, so it's probably not a horribly unfair advantage...within a given season. I don't like suddenly bloating personal numbers against other years. The entire record book would suddenly be asterisk after asterisk. Not a fan of this one. I honestly appreciate the attempt, and it's definitely a constructive effort. I sadly don't have better suggestions. I know, it's easier to nay-say other's ideas than come up with one's own. But I got nuthin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Another thing that hurts the all-star game is the fact that it keeps getting cancelled with all the lockouts the league has. At one point in time, players cared about the all-star game. (We're talking more than twenty years ago now though.) The league could have taken steps to reinforce how important it is but chose not to.Examples:1. Winner of the all-star game gets home ice advantage in the Stanley Cup final. (Just like baseball.) Why not try it?2. Any player selected to play (that chooses not to) would receive an automatic 15 game suspension.3. Eliminate 30 team represenation. The best players go. Some teams won't send any players. That's a good thing.4. Reduce fan voting to one player per team. Everyone else gets in on merit based on their stats using NHL analysts.5. Make the stats in the all-star game count toward the season totals for those players, thereby affecting trophy races. Nice ideas but 3 and 4 contradict each other. I don't know what the answer is but something has to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I think he meant one player per AS team, not NHL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nossagog Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Another thing that hurts the all-star game is the fact that it keeps getting cancelled with all the lockouts the league has. At one point in time, players cared about the all-star game. (We're talking more than twenty years ago now though.) The league could have taken steps to reinforce how important it is but chose not to. Examples: 1. Winner of the all-star game gets home ice advantage in the Stanley Cup final. (Just like baseball.) Why not try it? Only if you implement item 3 and completely get rid of Electronic Fan Voting2. Any player selected to play (that chooses not to) would receive an automatic 15 game suspension. Just not going to happen, some players are actually injured. I think most players actually care3. Eliminate 30 team represenation. The best players go. Some teams won't send any players. That's a good thing. Absolutely, although you may have to make a spot for someone on the home team, lest people not show up for the game.4. Reduce fan voting to one player per team. Everyone else gets in on merit based on their stats using NHL analysts. At worse case, go back to ballots handed out at the game. That gets rid of the spammers that sit there and continually vote on the internet(That means you people of Latvia!). Put it in the hands of the fans that go to the game. Or make it a peer selection, voted for by the players and you can't vote for your own team members.5. Make the stats in the all-star game count toward the season totals for those players, thereby affecting trophy races. Nah, would not be fair to the players that did not make the game. AJ, I think he meant that the fans can select only one player per team in that by fan vote, only one Blackhawk can get in the starting lineup, not all 6 because they flooded the ballot box. The rest of the Blackhawks would need to get in during the other selection process as it happens now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I can see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I can't get on board with #1 (home ice for SCF). That's too much of a game changer for an all-star game that *still* wouldn't have the pace, intensity, and HITTING that most NHL games have. I mean, wouldn't you be pissed as a Flyers fan if your team gutted it out through 3 rounds to make it to the SCF, and SHOULD have home ice advantage - but doesn't because of some pansy game they couldn't control? No way. That's too significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 @brelic Can you see Giroux throwing himself in front of a slapshot in the Allstar game so Crosby (who can't be bothered to show up) can have home ice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 @brelic Can you see Giroux throwing himself in front of a slapshot in the Allstar game so Crosby (who can't be bothered to show up) can have home ice? Excellent point. Not much incentive to go all out for players whose teams have no shot at the playoffs, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I think he meant one player per AS team, not NHL team. Yes, one player per all-star team would be the highest vote getter based on fan selection that isn't already selected to play on the team. (I should have been clearer.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I can't get on board with #1 (home ice for SCF). That's too much of a game changer for an all-star game that *still* wouldn't have the pace, intensity, and HITTING that most NHL games have. I mean, wouldn't you be pissed as a Flyers fan if your team gutted it out through 3 rounds to make it to the SCF, and SHOULD have home ice advantage - but doesn't because of some pansy game they couldn't control? No way. That's too significant. I'll admit the home-ice thing is a fairly weak idea, but not even so much for the reasons mentioned by others. I just don't think home-ice advantage is much of an advantage at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I honestly appreciate the attempt, and it's definitely a constructive effort. I sadly don't have better suggestions. I know, it's easier to nay-say other's ideas than come up with one's own. But I got nuthin'. Yeah. I'm stumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Excellent point. Not much incentive to go all out for players whose teams have no shot at the playoffs, huh? QUESTION: What if the players selected for the all-star game had to be playing on teams currently occupying a playoff spot? (Basically an additional criteria for selection.) That way you only get players with something to play for on both all-star teams. Then #1 might have more relevance. Just a thought. (Otherwise I really am stumped.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 How did i not ever come across this thread before??? This is pure gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I like the preseason all-star game in which a team of Allstars takes on the team that just won the Cup. Start the year with it and the Cup winner uses players that were on the team when it won (even if they've subsequently been traded, retired, imprisoned, or detained at a border crossing. And no one acquired since). The opposing team would have its captain voted on by popular vote and then the rest selected by a combination of those selected by the captain and those selected by hockey writers/analysts. Play the game in London or Geneva or somewhere. The incentive for the Cup team: we can beat anyone. The incentive for the Allstars: take out the Cup team The incentive for both: free trip with friends and colleagues to Europe. The bonus is no interruption of the season for a meaningless clown car show that has no bearing on anything and that risks injury in a meaningless game for players in the middle of a playoff race. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 @ruxpin Anythings better than what it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 @ruxpinAnythings better than what it is now.Yeah, it's ridiculously irrelevant as it stands now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 @ruxpin Haven't watched it in a long time. I might just tune in (at least the first time) if they went back to the champs vs the rest of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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